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Contacting anyone, forced funcionality, lack of user focus etc.

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I have removed any private information and kept the balance for everyone review and comments and left dead Mozilla addresses, which is not private or personal.

Start paste ________ Re: Your case, 00119811: Contacting anyone

20 Oct 2022 13:24NZST (20 minutes ago)

to Mozilla I note this total lack of focus on the users continues, with more forced unwanted "functionality", forced start menu shortcuts and no fixes of the reported previous issues etc., some of which can be "fixed" via a not recommend code, patch or "playing" in the config settings.

I believe most of this is driven by a race for dollars before totally pissing off the bulk of the users and will end up with much less dollars.

Urgently, regain your focus on the users themselves, provide settings in the main window that allow the users to manage nearly all settings, allow them to add or remove extra functionality, i.e. list all tabs, Firefox mode, backspace issues, search positioning etc etc. remove "Personalize new tab" does not need to be there at all, include in settings.

Further, the issue reporting requirements and process are still onerous and Mozilla's/Firefox shutting down topics on the community pages is a "We know best" approach which highlights this complete lack of user focus.

I suggest: -A new group of coders that focus on the users first and foremost, while not all of their recommendation may be implemented,they should have some priority -An open and honest discussion amongst all stakeholders on each issue as and when required -A commitment to rollback all of the unnecessary "fixes" that pissed off some of the user groups that complained, remember it must have really pissed them off to start to complain and most will be silent regardless. -and any other items that revert Mozilla and Firefox back to its original drivers

Actioning all of the above, will longer-term, retain users, drive recommendations and gain new users and will have a material impact, again as per my last email attached and as I predicted, the current user share is diminishing and will continue to do so unless significant change in methodology and focus is rolled out ASAP.

Phil B

On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 12:58, Mozilla Foundation Donor Care Team <donorcare@mozillafoundation.org> wrote: Hello Phil, Thank you for getting back to us and clarifying things a bit further. We appreciate you reaching out, and thank you again for your support. Respectfully,

Tom & the Donor Care Team at the Mozilla Foundation https://foundation.mozilla.org


Original Message ---------------

Sent late Sept 2021 Hi Tom, and team,

Somewhat ironically, the "new features" mostly include unfriendly removal of normal configuration as has been standard across all browsers since year dot as well as unneeded overheads and other.

Continuing the irony, my apparently unified login, previously known as my Mozilla login, now my Firefox login is invalid for ideas.Mozilla.org for which I apparently need a separate one, reporting this as a bug or as a requested feature update I need another separate one.

The whole process of reporting and communicating to the Dev team directly (via support or other), the navigation to such, the escalating of such is horrendous. You may end up with multiple reports and somewhat incomplete reports form average users, however asking users to have all of these extra log-ins, to read the bug treatise, to navigate through this laborious - totally the reverse of a streamlined, thought-out process is symptomatic of the lack of focus on user feedback and I believe, the users themselves.

I understand during a reconfiguration there may be teething troubles, however this is not the case, it has been this way for a long time and continues to get more distant from a user friendly experience.

If you read between the lines above, I will not be gong through to deas.mozilla.org via 2 log-in's, to go to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/file-bug-report-or-feature-request-mozilla to try to select the correct repository and having read the clumsy tome, report a "fix" needed for something that should never of been rolled-out, to go though to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Firefox (or other) to log-in again and still be no closer to any kind-of direct, meaningful and constructive solution when I can "hack" the about:config and these issues IMO have been reported via https://support.mozilla.org on more than one occasion.

Yours sincerely Phil B

On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 12:30, Mozilla Foundation Donor Care Team <donorcare@mozillafoundation.org> wrote:

Hello,

Thank you for being a Firefox user! We're sorry to hear that you're frustrated with some of the new features added in the recent refresh.

We checked with the Firefox team, and they suggested that you submit your feedback here: ideas.mozilla.org . That way the team can take a look at it and other users can chime in too.<PB notes>, all reported, either ignored, conversation shutdown and none were ever rolled back<end>

We hope this information is helpful, and thank you again for your support. Sincerely, Tom & the Donor Care Team at the Mozilla Foundation


Original Message ---------------

Sent late Sept 2021 Please forward to Dev management. There is no link between the support volunteers and Mozilla, there is no way to contact Mozilla, there is no way to ask for a simple roll-back of a "new" unwanted feature i.e. backspace not working, search tab/bar/screen position. Firefox is losing it's way and ignoring and not appearing to want any constructive feedback and no way to monitor or act on it. People are leaving. _____ end paste.

I added some dates in an edit. Please do not ask too many questions on the history here jscher2000 has already tested me and my memory.

I have removed any private information and kept the balance for everyone review and comments and left dead Mozilla addresses, which is not private or personal. Start paste ________ Re: Your case, 00119811: Contacting anyone 20 Oct 2022 13:24NZST (20 minutes ago) to Mozilla I note this total lack of focus on the users continues, with more forced unwanted "functionality", forced start menu shortcuts and no fixes of the reported previous issues etc., some of which can be "fixed" via a not recommend code, patch or "playing" in the config settings. I believe most of this is driven by a race for dollars before totally pissing off the bulk of the users and will end up with much less dollars. Urgently, regain your focus on the users themselves, provide settings in the main window that allow the users to manage nearly all settings, allow them to add or remove extra functionality, i.e. list all tabs, Firefox mode, backspace issues, search positioning etc etc. remove "Personalize new tab" does not need to be there at all, include in settings. Further, the issue reporting requirements and process are still onerous and Mozilla's/Firefox shutting down topics on the community pages is a "We know best" approach which highlights this complete lack of user focus. I suggest: -A new group of coders that focus on the users first and foremost, while not all of their recommendation may be implemented,they should have some priority -An open and honest discussion amongst all stakeholders on each issue as and when required -A commitment to rollback all of the unnecessary "fixes" that pissed off some of the user groups that complained, remember it must have really pissed them off to start to complain and most will be silent regardless. -and any other items that revert Mozilla and Firefox back to its original drivers Actioning all of the above, will longer-term, retain users, drive recommendations and gain new users and will have a material impact, again as per my last email attached and as I predicted, the current user share is diminishing and will continue to do so unless significant change in methodology and focus is rolled out ASAP. Phil B On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 12:58, Mozilla Foundation Donor Care Team <donorcare@mozillafoundation.org> wrote: Hello Phil, Thank you for getting back to us and clarifying things a bit further. We appreciate you reaching out, and thank you again for your support. Respectfully, Tom & the Donor Care Team at the Mozilla Foundation https://foundation.mozilla.org --------------- Original Message --------------- Sent late Sept 2021 Hi Tom, and team, Somewhat ironically, the "new features" mostly include unfriendly removal of normal configuration as has been standard across all browsers since year dot as well as unneeded overheads and other. Continuing the irony, my apparently unified login, previously known as my Mozilla login, now my Firefox login is invalid for ideas.Mozilla.org for which I apparently need a separate one, reporting this as a bug or as a requested feature update I need another separate one. The whole process of reporting and communicating to the Dev team directly (via support or other), the navigation to such, the escalating of such is horrendous. You may end up with multiple reports and somewhat incomplete reports form average users, however asking users to have all of these extra log-ins, to read the bug treatise, to navigate through this laborious - totally the reverse of a streamlined, thought-out process is symptomatic of the lack of focus on user feedback and I believe, the users themselves. I understand during a reconfiguration there may be teething troubles, however this is not the case, it has been this way for a long time and continues to get more distant from a user friendly experience. If you read between the lines above, I will not be gong through to deas.mozilla.org via 2 log-in's, to go to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/file-bug-report-or-feature-request-mozilla to try to select the correct repository and having read the clumsy tome, report a "fix" needed for something that should never of been rolled-out, to go though to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Firefox (or other) to log-in again and still be no closer to any kind-of direct, meaningful and constructive solution when I can "hack" the about:config and these issues IMO have been reported via https://support.mozilla.org on more than one occasion. Yours sincerely Phil B On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 12:30, Mozilla Foundation Donor Care Team <donorcare@mozillafoundation.org> wrote: Hello, Thank you for being a Firefox user! We're sorry to hear that you're frustrated with some of the new features added in the recent refresh. We checked with the Firefox team, and they suggested that you submit your feedback here: ideas.mozilla.org . That way the team can take a look at it and other users can chime in too.<PB notes>, all reported, either ignored, conversation shutdown and none were ever rolled back<end> We hope this information is helpful, and thank you again for your support. Sincerely, Tom & the Donor Care Team at the Mozilla Foundation --------------- Original Message --------------- Sent late Sept 2021 Please forward to Dev management. There is no link between the support volunteers and Mozilla, there is no way to contact Mozilla, there is no way to ask for a simple roll-back of a "new" unwanted feature i.e. backspace not working, search tab/bar/screen position. Firefox is losing it's way and ignoring and not appearing to want any constructive feedback and no way to monitor or act on it. People are leaving. _____ end paste. I added some dates in an edit. Please do not ask too many questions on the history here jscher2000 has already tested me and my memory.

Modified by philbowyer007

All Replies (10)

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Apologies for format issues, maybe a preview button needed for OP? Do I need to loop through a cumbersome process and three logins to do this as well? Phil B

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Hi Phil, having even one space at the start of a line signals the site to use preformatting, which prevents word wrapping.

To edit your question, return to this thread and on the right side below the search box look for:

Question Tools Edit this question

https://support.mozilla.org/questions/1393637

Regarding product suggestions:

Mozilla recently started up a new "Ideas" site at https://connect.mozilla.org/. I think if you have time, it would be a good idea to post there to get into the current feedback stream.

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Hi jscher2000, thanks for the "Edit" tip, fixed that issue, does not negate any of my comments including preview et al though.

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That's much more readable.

philbowyer007 said

... there is no way to ask for a simple roll-back of a "new" unwanted feature i.e. backspace not working, search tab/bar/screen position.

For "backspace not working" do you mean this: A few versions ago, the default action for backspace -- when the cursor is outside a text entry area -- was changed from "Go Back to the previous page in tab history" to "Do nothing." If you prefer the previous behavior:

(1) In a new tab, type or paste about:config in the address bar and press Enter/Return. Click the button accepting the risk.

More info on about:config: Configuration Editor for Firefox. The moderators would like us to remind you that changes made through this back door aren't fully supported and aren't guaranteed to continue working in the future.

(2) In the search box in the page, type or paste browser.backspace_action and pause while the list is filtered

(3) Double-click the preference to display an editing field, and change the value to 0 then press Enter or click the blue check mark button to save the change.

For reference:

  • 0 => Go Back in Tab History (Shift+Backspace goes Forward)
  • 1 => Page Up (Shift+Backspace does Page Down)
  • any other number => do nothing

I'm not sure what "search tab/bar/screen position" refers to. What is the issue there?

I think that "ideas" address should forward to the new Ideas site at https://connect.mozilla.org/. Is that the one where you aren't able to sign in?

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Hi again jscher2000 and thank you again for your contribution, nearly all of my issues with the actual operation has been fixed mainly via config, while many of the background issues remain. However, the main point of my post is as per the title "Contacting anyone, forced functionality, lack of user focus etc." which extends to providing the user's themselves suitable, even users with entry level skills, the tools and abilities to easily customise what and where they want it.

As an example and re Backspace, I have seen a few post saying it caused an issue (and a tech dude saying how he prevents this on his own designed forms) and many many more complaining about this lack of functionality, on balance, it should be rolled back immediately, or a button added to settings to roll back, Why has it not already?

FYI Search bar = Search address bar, search tab = List all tabs, and the search function therein, Search Screen position = Home/Web Search rather than the horrid, unwanted and much less functional "Handoff" forced upon us, I assume for tracking and other, hidden purposes.

If https://connect.mozilla.org/. is going to rationalise and consolidate all contact points, including this one and ALL others (less GH, see below) and the Mozilla's Firefox team directly replies there, it could be a start, and all should be on one login. and github only used for super technical matters, meaning the average user has one login, one password and some, even if limited, direct support and discussions with those empowered to make those changes, rather than in total isolation and forced upon all users regardless.

Finally, the lack of user focus and associated issues within the design, coding and management teams s not compensated by the dedicated, knowledgeable volunteer force, it is certainly mitigated some, however, it is like one does not care and the other is fighting and working to undermine the other.

Phil B

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Hi Phil, discussions and Idea postings on the Connect site sometimes lead to quick action, but other times, it's a gradual process of seeing what proposals get voted up and feeding that into the product design process. You can sign in using your Firefox Account.

There is always a tension about how long the Settings page becomes and how to make it more usable by simplifying it versus making it more comprehensive. You definitely cannot please all of the people all of the time.

(For example, I hated accidentally losing my place by hitting the Backspace key when I thought it was in an edit field but it was note. There were regular threads on the problem here. So if it were up to me, we definitely would not switch the default back to how it was before. Fortunately for you, nothing is up to me.)

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Hi jscher2000,

Re Backspace: I only saw two such post's here and many more "where's my backspace" type post/topics, which were shutdown, I also saw on other boards the post/thread balance was around the same, note non-comprehensive study.

Re Forms: Re Forms use Tab, Shift+Tab, always. Re Forms II: Can firefox not switch on/off if you enter a form? should catch 90% of those not built correctly, so 92%-95%

Re Menus: I think a slightly longer settings vs dictating to the average user, (aka "simplifying" and removing user control etc.) is not a contest.

Rationalise and increase items suggested method Use Horizontal Dropdown type style, in setting, on click effective layer 1, most basic 2 or three items only + links to level 2, 3 etc So on page about:preferences The menu reads General (font 16) only showing FF default, update, maybe downloads small tab here Language (font 14) small tab here Appearance (font 14) etc.

Menu appears maybe 2 or 3 lines longer and you could add an "Advanced" and put everything (almost) back in user control, you will need to modify about:preferences etc, addresses, not a biggie. also "More from Mozilla" has one item, wtf? maybe future proofed lol, I suggest "Firefox mobile and Sync", combine

Re User focus: Place User focus at the centre of every decision, period. It is the only thing in many ways.

Maybe ask 10,000 random (see note 1) users to perform some test for us (see note 2),, if picked you will receive a follow up email after close of application, 1200-1400 will say OK, mostly a bit geeky (Phil B etc.) pick 100, reward them, not sure the 100 or 1200-1400 a badge min, discount VPN, vouchers or anything.

Note 1: not anyone that has ever posted here as a contributor, or anyone else who has a connect.mozilla account, i.e. general public user. assess feedback. decide to implement or not. Note 2: in development order 1, Take a survey (Do you want? What do you want? etc,), 2. Test individual feature (Did it work? Do you like? Would you use? Do you use? do you want> etc. 3. Beta test pre-release. Assess feedback at each step, make amendments, start again on this process, then it is up to the JS coders to do the impossible in around 21 days (or longer for wish-list items ~22 days?), then, finally, release to the world. Phil B

NB: Added an end note on OP, hopefully provokes a smile.

Modified by philbowyer007

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Firefox used to occasionally display survey prompts starting with "Rate your experience." I don't know how many people filled the survey. Some people would come here and ask if it was a hack.

Maybe "Is Firefox making you happy or angry today?" would draw in more feedback. Not sure how balanced it would be.

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Hi jscher2000, hope you are around, I posted 2 ideas to connect.Mozilla and neither appear in any search, hence not getting any replies or buy-in.

links https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/remove-quot-firefox-private-browing-quot-from-start-menu/idi-p/17117

https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/put-the-users-at-the-cente-of-every-decision/idi-p/16626

Any ideas (so to speak)

Cheers Phil

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Yes, those links are not working for me. This is the page where you can confirm they are still in the review queue:

https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/premod/moderationitemspage/tab/unmoderated:idea