The I-do-not-like-Firefox-29-layout topic
(For Forum Moderators: Please read /forums/forum-moderators/710264?last=59300)
Moderators, please read first before closing/removing this topic right away?
To those wanting to react here on this topic: please, also read ;)
Since my original posting https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/997009 was closed because one of the moderators felt it was going off-topic (although it was red a lot and had 131 "have-this-problem" in just a few days), here a kind of re-opening but on-topic.
Why? Because I feel we have the right to express our feelings on this major change. And publicly there is actually only this forum where that can be done on the Mozilla.org domain.
Sure, the change is there and we have to live with it (if we choose to). But that doesn't mean we can not have our voice here because after many, many years of supporting FF with our use, we suddenly are facing a layout we were always running away from.
So yes, that can cause ranting and so on (within the forum rules of course) because people feel strongly about there beloved browser.
(edit rules link note the whole topic is ordinarily outside the scope of the forum ... Posts in the Mozilla support forum must be either questions about the use of Firefox, ... Users who post about things other than Mozilla support will be directed to an alternative discussion place .... . ~J99)
Plus this way you can centralize all the negatives here instead of a lot of separate postings about the same subject ;)
To the people reacting here in this topic: there is only 1 real way to let Mozilla itself know how you feel on the new lay out and that is not through this forum. The way is to go to https://input.mozilla.org/feedback/ and let it know there.
You need to use a supported Firefox to post Feedback so that will soon not be possible from Fx28 2nd edit. I was wrong feedback works with any version of Fiefpx now~J99
And I think when that is done in normal words (so no f*ck you rants and so on) and suggestions, then maybe, just maybe, it has some effect.
Also, there is an Mozilla support page with info on how to get the "old look" back, see How to make the new Firefox look like the old FirefoxBut it will only partly restore the old look, certain FF29 things can not be changed.
And yes, I myself am back to Firefox 28 which is not supported or suggested by Mozilla because it has things (bugs and security) that are not fixed in it. (Edit Please use Official downloads if you must downgrade links in Install an older version of Firefox and the growing list of exploits you will open yourself up to is listed here: https://www.mozilla.org/security/known-vulnerabilities/firefox.html ~J99)
I am not suggesting or advertising to others to do the same. It is a risk I am willing to take and only say it is an option.
edit My reason to go back to FF 28 is because that version still has the intuitive feel and look Firefox one was praised for. With a logical lay out and a good way to simply customize it (also in about:config).
For those who say/think "Come one man, stop whining! Grow up and just accept that Firefox has to go with its time!", to them I say: nope ;)
First edit Modified May 10, 2014 7:54:58 PM BST by John99
2nd: re feedback
Modified by John99
Comment by a Moderator Some of the subjects in the long thread
- Semi Silent updates and users resorting to Firefox 28 or Firefox clones
- Community Opinion /questions/998106?page=4#answer-575596
- Install two versions of Firefox /questions/998106?page=2#answer-568397
- It looks like Chrome /questions/998106?page=3#answer-573617
- It badly affects productivity /questions/998106?page=3#answer-572502
- A Pale Moon Fan /questions/998106#answer-568231
- Its too dark to see the tabs /questions/997907#answer-580119 (adjacent thread)
- WORKAROUNDS explanations and help articles
- (immediately under the first post) ,make it look like the old one /questions/998106#answer-566574
- The fact we can not influence Developers. /questions/998106#answer-567244
- My personal opinion some things that should be changed /questions/998106?page=2#answer-568373
- List of help articles and useful posts /questions/998106?page=2#answer-568374
Modified May 27, 2014 10:17:21 AM BST by John99
P.S. Feedback & discussions options see also links in /questions/998106?page=2#answer-568374Read this answer in context 2
Additional System Details
- Shockwave Flash 13.0 r0
- Next Generation Java Plug-in 11.5.2 for Mozilla browsers
- NPRuntime Script Plug-in Library for Java(TM) Deploy
- Adobe Shockwave for Director Netscape plug-in, version 12.1
- Adobe PDF Plug-In For Firefox and Netscape 11.0.06
- Adobe Shockwave for Director Netscape plug-in, version 188.8.131.52
- User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:28.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/28.0
If you think the How to make the new Firefox look like the old Firefox Knowledge Base article is lacking information, why don't you get involved?
Or maybe contact the people who wrote that article and offer suggestions about how that article could be improved. There's a hyperlink at the bottom of that article for each contributor to their PM account - "These fine people helped write this article: Verdi, jsavage"
Because I do not stand behind it: I think it's very weird to first make a complete overhaul and then write an article on how to overhaul the overhaul.
For me that's the same as to complete redesign your favourite car, including parts of it's engine. Then, after that massive job, offering that car and make a remark that you can get a make-over to make it look like the old design again. They will put me in a straitjacket and I will be taken away I think ;)
Don't get me wrong: I think it's a great sign of support that the article is there. It's an acknowledgement by Mozilla that they understand that there are people who want the old layout.
But it's also something that is only done by the "hardcore" users. There are more then enough people who do not know about this forum, the article or whatever and are badly surprised with the overhaul.
And then there is the matter of principle: there are a lot of users who feel that their browser has been sold out. By that I mean that Mozilla made a choice to make the base of Firefox look like the other two mainstream browsers. For them Firefox was THE choice to go against the "big guys". Now that feeling has been taken away and no overhaul of the overhaul article can take that feeling away.
Personally I belong also a bit in that last category: I still have and wear the big, heavy Firefox T-shirt I got many years ago ;)
Thank you for bringing the issues that you are currently facing to our attention.
The code name for Firefox 29 is Australis. I respect your decision to move back to 28, however the decision to do a major UI overhaul wasn't our idea. We are mostly volunteers here spending our time answering questions to supporters like you. As to the how to make Firefox look like old Firefox. Yes, that seems to be a bit contradicting, all I'll say personally is that the option to somewhat switch back was offered by the developers of the addon. The freedom of users like you is important, therefore many options and customization options are presented forward.
I am one for discussing, however for us moderators to take a stand on the topic publicly doesn't seem right as we do no represent Mozilla employees and their decisions. I am more than open to discuss via private message however, you can feel free to reply back here without any issues.
I am aware that you are volunteers. And it is not meant as an attack on the moderators, UI designers and so on. And I fully understand that it would be weird if you take a stand on this for the reasons you are giving :)
THIS Possibility of "Why The New Look ?" Must not have occurred to anyone: Can it Be that the developers where using Chrome so much that it was difficult for them to use FF. Every time the Switched to FF they had to a look for a while before getting layout figured out again.
So They Made it Easy for themselves. :) :) :)
@ alex.remington I totally agree. The made it dead simple to themselves ;)
@ Andrew Thank you. But who is then best to contact if we do not like the (utterly bad) new UI. IMHO if enough people complain we might get at least 28.0 supported in the future or the possibility to choose during the installation the UI (e.g. an option classic or new:)
@ meegja Thank you for holding on to this topic and to keep it open.
I was most happy with firefox so far. The only issue I had in the past, was that one update got rid of the status bar. But that was no problem to solve, with the add on Status-4-Evar which apparently does not work in 29.0 any more. I am just most happy that in my openSuSE partition Firefox cannot update that easy (automatic).
Why do the developers do not build in a warning in the automated update function like:
Warning: if you agree to the update the appearance of FF will change significant
Modified by guareire
Submit your feedback about Firefox 29 here:
There happens to be a new *05-03-2014* version of Status-4-Evar sitting here, awaiting review:
Works with Firefox 24.0 and later
Just install it and see how it works. The review process is an examination of the code and most of the time is just a "formality" when it comes to developers who have been around a long time. Hell, if a developer wanted to "pull something". they wouldn't stick around for over 4 years, and then try to exploit users, IMO!
There is / has been a warning, at the end of the add-ons compatibility check procedure. I did a fresh install of Fx 29.
I think guareire is meaning a warning before the main Firefox update, not a warning about the compatibility of add-ons.
And actually he has a good point there. A lot of people have set their update to Automatic but it also goes for people who do not have that enabled. It would have been logical, fair, (however you want to call it), that with this major overhaul people have to be warned or made aware that this update had a major impact on the lay-out (and in some cases the use) of Firefox. And with a link to the "How to make the new Firefox look like the old Firefox" KB article or something like that.
Now the update/overhaul is a complete surprise (be it a good or bad surprise) to most people.
Sure, logically Mozilla wants us to use the latest version because that is the safest version. So giving an option to upgrade or not is not logical then. But I think in a case like this with SUCH a big upgrade it would make sense to at least give the notice about about it.
Thank you. Feedback submitted ;) The problem with the Staus-4-Evar (S4E) add on is that FF29 DID NOT mention it incompatible. So I hope for users who use FF29 and want to use S4E this will help as I refuse to use FF29.
Thank you that is exactly what I mean. Sorry if I did not nail it earlier as I am not an English native speaker. And a huge thumbs up for the tip of Pale Moon in https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/que.../997039
As FF28 will not be maintained I decided to use the Pale Moon Browser from now on ( http://www.palemoon.org/ ) . I will do so until Mozilla will give up the Chrome like designed UI and suggest that everyone who dislikes the new UI to follow.
I am using Pale Moon right now and the installation process was really simple.
I used his Migration tool ( http://www.palemoon.org/migrationtool.shtml ) and this copied everything over. S4E is no longer needed as Pale Moon has still the old status bar :P
Your welcome. And no matter, English is not my native tongue also.
As for Mozilla giving up the main UI: they will not. And actually I do understand that: if it took 4 years to develop, it will not be changed.
What I am waiting for is that some key-features that made Firefox great, will come back so no addons have to be used to tweak the hell out of Firefox. Like positioning the Addon Bar to the bottom, a normal Menu Bar, smaller buttons and so on. The rounded Tabs and other graphical changes, those I can live with (I think LOLOL)
Till that time I am and will be back to Firefox 28 at my own risk. I did try PaleMoon and although it is great, it's not suited for my kind of work.
Yep, that was my first reaction too :P
As for your inactive account: I did see that (probably) you made the same comments (with a rather strong opinion) on multiple topics. Either it is an automatic setting on the forum which recognized that as "spam" (being it the same message in a short time in multiple topics) or 1 of the moderators did that manually because it is not allowed within the forum rules. Guess you have to ask them :)
Three identical postings within three minutes is considered spam.
I would think the content that was posted was also a consideration.
This forum isn't a "playground", or a place to "vent" repeatedly over a perceived "wrong". If you have a support question, post it and request help nicely. Or you want to post helpful answer to help a fellow Firefox user with their issues do so. Otherwise don't post anything.
Also, when we tell one of the admins to anonymize all information they do so. None of your information resides on the system once an admin is done with it.
You can use the method bermea suggested for your current account. We'll take care of the other account so it can be fully deleted.
I still can't get into my account to delete it.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Modified by user1083297
The other account is deactivated, only admins can reactivate and completely close the account completely - we'll make sure that gets done. Meanwhile, you can close your current account as suggested by bermea with the link provided and scrolling down to the bottom and clicking the red button.
Locking thread temporarily so someone can understand correctly.
You can close your current account (georgermct) right now by going to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/users/edit and scrolling way down til you see "Close account and delete all profile information"
As for your deactivated account (guymax), we'll take care of the other account so it can be fully deleted.
Please tell me you understood that!
Modified by Moses
Very sorry for the disruption in this thread on the main topic of the issue. Sorry for any inconvenience, but let's get back to the topic that needs to be addressed here.
Sorry, I was relating the layouts as an example. Did not mean to get off the Topic.
meegja, I also downloaded and start using Pale Moon. I did not even knew about it and discovered it here, but after using Firefox from it's infancy, I am not just going to say forget FF. I will continue using it especially when I do have to open many tabs. My issues are a lot different than Just not liking it.
I think my very first post was posted somewhere else as at the time this topic was closed. I will have to find it and post it here. To Summarize it in the order of Importance. I Do not like it Because: 1- The Rounded Boarder-Less tabs. If you there are many of them (My Case) It is very hard to Quickly See and chose One. I have to kind of remember it's position, but that is always shifting.
2- Customizing all the Buttons Cross Bars. The Nav Arrows (Backward/Forward Arrows), Reload, and one other thing does not move. I used to put every thing I Needed on the Menu bar to Group and Save Space, Then under View->Toolbars Have Menu Bar checked Only. I can't do that now.
I have included 2 Pictures one of FF29 Now and the Other of How it used to be. Look at them and then tell me In which Scenario You can See and Find Tabs better. Note that How it used to be picture is from PM. I do not have my FF28 any more.