Often "Not Responding" and spinning with Bitdefender. [was: Exceeded 4 gigabyte Thunderbird limit. I believe this corrupted Gmail. COMMENT:unlikely]
In Thunderbird, I have both a gmail account and another one, att.net (administered by Yahoo - I keep it for historical reasons). The gmail account is, of course, IMAP; the att.net account is POP3. It is the gmail account that I am having trouble with. att.net is working well.
In my business, I get a lot of email. Virtually all of this email comes to the gmail account. I allowed the gmail account to grow to at least 4.5 gigabytes, and possibly larger. The fault is strictly mine. I did not get a diagnostic about the account being too large. The att.net account is about 750 megabytes. I believe that as a result, something in the gmail account got corrupted. What began to happen, and is still happening, is that there are (all too many) times when I am trying to do something, it can say that Thunderbird is not responding and just spin for a few minutes. This especially happens when email is being downloaded to the gmail All Mail folder. It sometimes also happens when mail is being downloaded to the gmail Important folder. I moved a lot of mail to the att.net account, reducing the size of gmail to about 3.5 gigabytes. That reduced the problem but it has not gone away. I will need to move more email to the att.net portion because I continue to receive email. The 4 gigabyte limit will no doubt be reached again. When Thunderbird is not responding and I look at the task manager, it shows that my antivirus software, Bitdefender, is grabbing a huge chunk of CPU. When Thunderbird "calms down", Bitdefender returns to normal.
I am assuming that I will have to rebuild Thunderbird but I am not certain. I am not sure how to do that because I have nowhere to build it. Can I install another Thunderbird in my PC, one where I can build a clean system? I would like to stop this Thunderbird not responding business because it appears at awkward times.
I am uncertain as to what is really going on and what to do about it. I would appreciate any help or suggestions.
Thank you.
Modified
All Replies (19)
This especially happens when email is being downloaded to the gmail All Mail folder.
What do you need 'All Mail' for in the first place? It essentially doubles the amount of disk space needed for your Gmail account. You can unsubscribe from 'All Mail' in case this isn't obvious.
I moved a lot of mail to the att.net account, reducing the size of gmail to about 3.5 gigabytes.
This doesn't address the underlying problem.
The 4 gigabyte limit will no doubt be reached again.
4 GB of mail in a Gmail account isn't a problem at all. You should make sure not to accumulate messages in Inbox or a single folder though. Keep an eye on the size of the 'Sent' folder as well.
Also take a look at the Archiving feature. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/archived-messages
And make sure you do have a backup of your Thunderbird profile folder. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Thunderbird_:_FAQs_:_Backing_Up_and_Restoring
When Thunderbird is not responding and I look at the task manager, it shows that my antivirus software, Bitdefender, is grabbing a huge chunk of memory.
Bitdefender is most likely the culprit. Try to start *Windows* in safe mode with networking enabled. - Win10 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/change-startup-settings-in-windows-10#v1h=tab01 - Win8 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/windows-startup-settings-including-safe-mode - Win7 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Start-your-computer-in-safe-mode
Still in Windows safe mode, start Thunderbird in safe mode. - https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/safe-mode
Does the problem go away?
I appreciate the response and help from Christ1. However, I need to post my results.
In addition to the work email mentioned in my question, I have a personal Thunderbird email account on a laptop. Since I do not need to archive more than a few of these emails, this account serves as a good place to experiment. I started by unsubscribing to messages that are starred. What happened is that this action emptied the Starred folder, which is fine. What is not fine is that the messages that were in there were deleted from wherever they were, i.e., Starred, Inbox, All mail and, if archived in a folder, from there as well. I looked at my Gmail account on line. The Starred folder was empty there as well. Then, as an experiment, I went into the Important folder and deleted one message. Before deleting it, I checked to see if it was in the inbox and all mail, which it was. After deleting it, I checked to see if I could find it. As well as from Important, it was deleted from Inbox and All mail. I did find it in Trash.
My conclusion is that unsubscribing from All Mail is not the thing to do unless you are initially setting up Thunderbird. I agree that these Gmail folders - All mail, Important and Starred - are a nuisance and that they uselessly take up space. But it is clear to me that all of this should be done when initially setting Thunderbird up and that once it is set up on one's PC, these folders have to be left alone.
I started by unsubscribing to messages that are starred.
What does this mean? What exactly did you do?
What happened is that this action emptied the Starred folder, which is fine.
It's not. Unsubscribing from a folder in Thunderbird does not delete any messages. You may have done something else or something went wrong.
My conclusion is that unsubscribing from All Mail is not the thing to do unless you are initially setting up Thunderbird.
As said before, unsubscribing from a folder does not delete any messages.
What I did was look around and found, under File, "Subscribe". I clicked on that and found all of my folders with a box to the right. The box was checked for all folders. On the right of this list were buttons that said "Subscribe", "Unsubscribe" and "Refresh". Folders such as Inbox, Sent, Drafts, etc., were missing. On the bottom of the list, in very faint letters was "(Gmail)" with a triangle to the left. I clicked on the triangle and got Inbox, All Mail, etc. I unclicked everything except Starred, then clicked on "Unsubscribe". The rest I describe above.
In addition, I found "Folder properties" under Edit. When I clicked on that, a box showed up. One of the choices was "Repair", along with text stating that sometimes the .msf file becomes damaged and that this might repair it. Is this safe? I tried it on my laptop Thunderbird where I could afford to do something bad (especially since I backed up my mail before trying this), but nothing happened. I assume that this is because nothing was wrong but I am hesitant to try it on my sick email files.
Thank you for your help.
Right click the account and select settings. In server settings for the account select the advanced button. In the IMAP server directory insert [Gmail] to make the folder display more useful. and normal. (it will remove the greyed gmail folder and move all the folders it contains to the main display. Like they should have been in the first place.
Thank you, Matt, for your reply. To my knowledge, this is not my issue. I noted the greyed out [Gmail] simply as an observation. My real issue is elsewhere. 0n my work email account, I have an issue about it getting hung up temporarily. I thought that because I had carelessly exceeded the Thunderbird 4 gigabyte limit, something got corrupted. I believed that the All mail and Important folders were involved but am not certain. It was recommended that I unsubscribe to the All mail folder. I was testing that by unsubscribing to the Starred folder on a minor Thunderbird account on another PC. That resulted in the email in the Starred folder being deleted. This did not disturb me as far as the minor Thunderbird account but I cannot have that happen on my work account. What you were responding to was something that the person who recommended that I try an unsubscribe had said, that unsubscribing should not delete email. He asked what I did and this was what I wrote. If you read the entire thread, you will see a description of what my real problem is.
Thank you for responding.
The 4Gb limit, which only really exists in POP mail accounts anyway is unlikely to create any sort of issue that can outlive a compact of your folders. (File (alt+F) > compact folders. A compact, among other things repairs such damage, unfortunately usually at the cost of mail above the 4Gb limit.
Given the lengthy discussion here about "All Mail" and "important" this is not a pop account and therefore the limits should not apply at all.
If the account is 4.5Gb it is relatively small by today's standards. We regularly see folk with 10Gb of mail on Gmail. but I still have a long way to go on my 16Gb of space.
Subscribing to a folder in IMAP and unsubscribeing as you say you have done should change nothing on gmail. Selecting unsubscribe simply stops the synchronization process with that folder. Checking the show only subscribed folders in the advanced box hides the unsubscribed folder in Thunderbird's view of the folder tree. Again nothing on the store at Google is affected.
So we are seeing something very odd here. Something that if it affected all gmail IMAP accounts would see this forum crawling with folk with the issue. You as far as I am aware are the only one with an issue. Hence I thinks Christ1's questioning you on the how.
Now a short explanation of how gmail actually works. They have no folders, only labels on a mail. Regardless of what we see, either in Thunderbird or their web site individual mails are marked with labels.
So a mail in the Important and the stared folders is the same mail as appears in the all mail folder. It just has three labels. This is unique to gmails intepretation of IMAP and is not IMAP standards complaint. IMAP uses folders.
Thunderbird translates these labels and again makes the visual appearance of folders out of them.
I would suggest you check your settings on Gmail for what to do when the last visible copy is removed... I think your might be set to something other than archive.
This link might take you there https://mail.google.com/mail/#settings/fwdandpop
Matt,
Thank you for your reply. Since the POP3 part of my account is about a gig or so and the IMAP (Gmail) part can be larger than 4 gig, then I am at a loss as to what is going on. I will have to take myself in hand and simply rebuild Thunderbird, something that terrifies me. I will likely be back with questions at that time.
One observation, though. When the Gmail file was larger than 4.5 gig, I had severe problems with Thunderbird slowing to a crawl. When I reduced the size to about 3.5 gig, the problem did not go away but the severity became far less. I have no explanation for this.
Also, compacting the folders is the first thing that I did. Compacting the folders did reduce the file size but it did not resolve the problem. I will try the Thunderbird repair facility just to see what happens.
Thank you again for your help and attention to this problem.
slowness as you describe is more likely to be related to anti virus activity than anything else. Anti virus programs take around 10 minutes per GD of file, given that the file probably changed more often that that then the anti virus is basically in an eternal loop starting, aborting and starting again.
For a long time we have recommended excluding the Thunderbird profile from any anti virus resident, some call it on access) scanning. Letting the anti virus scan it when it does a full scan is sufficient. After all the anti virus claims to be scanning the incoming mail, really scanning the file when it is updated as well is redundant.
A confused or partially crashed anti virus could also account for all sorts of weirdness with mail.
Matt,
What you say about antivirus programs is of extraordinary interest. When I saw in the Windows 8 task manager that during the times when Thunderbird was seized up that the antivirus program had grabbed the CPU, I assumed that this was a byproduct of what was going on in Thunderbird since I had no idea about the interaction between the antivirus program and Thunderbird. I will certainly look at this much more closely. I will have to see how to reduce the All mail folder without deleting mail that I need. I am gun shy about unsubscribing, so I will let that pass for the moment.
You have been a huge help. I am really grateful for what you have told me and for the time that you have taken with this issue. I really thank you.
Josquin des Prez*
- Obviously a pseudonym. He is a great 14th century composer whose music I greatly admire. Using his name is probably a bit pretentious on my part.
I had no idea about the interaction between the antivirus program and Thunderbird. I will certainly look at this much more closely.
We've been there before at the very beginning, but it doesn't sound like you did follow the suggestions. Beats me. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1098049#answer-815506
Modified
To Christ1:
I did follow what you suggested up to the last. I tried unsubscribing. I started with unsubscribing to Starred on a PC where I keep personal mail (and could thus afford to lose messages) but found that all messages in Starred (and the copies of those messages in All Mail and in folders where they were copied),, both on Thunderbird and Gmail, were deleted. I know that unsubscribing is not supposed to delete messages but this is what happened to me. The process I used is described above, in a previous reply. I am experimenting with the Important folder to see if, by moving messages out of there elsewhere, I can save the messages I care about. However, even if successful, this may be too monumental a task for All Mail.
I already know how to back the Profiles folder up and I did look at the link you provided about how to archive. Interesting. I will likely do that.
This leaves starting in Safe mode. This, I will admit, I did not do. I am not sophisticated or very knowledgeable in PCs and, because of that, am very cautious about understanding what it is I am about to do before doing it. I have no idea what Safe mode is nor how to start my PC in Safe mode. I will certainly investigate what it is and how to use it and will likely do as you suggest but cannot at this point since I do have a business and this is a busy time of the year for it. I will have to put that off until January at the earliest.
However, let me say again, I really appreciate your help and thank you very much for it.
I am experimenting with the Important folder to see if, by moving messages out of there elsewhere, I can save the messages I care about. However, even if successful, this may be too monumental a task for All Mail.
I'm not under the impression you understood the Gmail label concept yet. You do not move messages out of 'All Mail'.
Take a look at the following Gmail support articles.
Gmail folders in your mail client https://support.google.com/mail/answer/82367?hl=en&ref_topic=3397500
Deleting IMAP messages https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78755
How actions sync in IMAP https://support.google.com/mail/answer/77657?hl=en
Modified
You are absolutely correct. I do not understand the Gmail label concept. I am like most naive users who coast along in blissful ignorance until something bad happens.
Thank you very much for the links. I will read these articles with care and interest.
I am having similar problems understanding the best way to use Thunderbird with Gmail accounts. I have five different Gmail hosted accounts (under separate domains) and one outside account. I accessed them fine for years using POP access. However, I want to sync them with my smartphone. I turned off the old POP accounts and created five new IMAP accounts using the automatic settings. Of course, on first sync I got all the extra folders/labels from Google, including Allmail, Important, Trash, Spam, Inbox, and Starred. AllMail had several years of previous emails in it, probably just headers, like 20,000 or so. I don't want all that data on my local computer, so I deleted all but those from 11/1/2015, which seemed to work OK. I then set the IMAP sync settings to sync only the last 30 days. Later, Thunderbird synced and apparently downloaded the full emails for those I left in Allmail, which is now 160 GB in size. So I went into IMAP advanced and unchecked to download Allmail, Important, and Starred. After a while I ran the xpunge plugin to empty the trash and compact all mail folders. This started around 1 pm, and was still going at 10 pm. I let it run all night, and it apparently finished. I am not sure why it took so long except I saw messages it was accessing the server during the operation many times.
I just found this thread. I selected Subscribe under File, and I unsubscribed from Allmail, Important, and Starred. On restart, those folders no longer appear in the profile. However, I am still not sure where I am.
What I have done in the past is to archive my emails every couple of months using MailStore Home. Then I delete the older ones. This way I have a complete archive in MailStore Home, but my Thunderbird folders have only the last two months or so and never get so big as to slow down processing. I noticed that the files in the Thunderbird profile for the folders I unsubscribed from are gone now. Does that mean that I have in my Inbox what I want, which is all the new incoming emails and any left over after I deleted some? If so, I can just archive the Inbox as I have historically done. If Inbox only has headers that are loaded only when I open them, that will be an issue for reading offline or archiving.
Basically, I am subscribing to Inbox, Drafts, Trash, Spam, and Sent Mail. I have Thunderbird put a copy of sent emails in Sent Mail. I have deleted files going into Trash. I will empty the trash and try to compact all the subscribed folders at least once a day. I will archive Inbox, Sent Mail, and Drafts. Is this what I should be doing? I appreciate the assistance.
One more question. When I get ready to archive, and I delete all the older emails from Inbox, Sent Mail, etc., will that cause an issue on the server? I want them to disappear from the local folders. However, I want them to stay in Google's archive which is AllMail. Since I set to sync only the last 30 days, will that cause Thunderbird to ignore reporting to the server if I delete some messages older than 30 days? It is fine if they go away from the Inbox on the server, as long as they are still there in AllMail. Or is there a better way to achieve the result I want. Thanks again.
marklang,
please start a new thread for your problem.
Josquindesprez said
You are absolutely correct. I do not understand the Gmail label concept. I am like most naive users who coast along in blissful ignorance until something bad happens. Thank you very much for the links. I will read these articles with care and interest.
It's a tad hard to follow this, but Bitdefender is clearly consuming tons of CPU and as others have aid, is likely the major component of your problem.
Regarding gmail: 1. mail is never "deleted" from gmail's All Mail folder 2. (since version 17 iirc) it is not correct that disk space is doubled if the All Mail folder is subscribed. However, being subscribed to All Mail can increase sync overhead. 3. For some users, gmail occasionally resyncs one or more folders. This can be seen in Activity Manager. When this happens, there is significant overhead.
Interesting about Gmail resyncing folders. Thanks for the information.