Forum Guidelines - general discussion | SUMO community discussions | Forums

September 30, 2013, 2:04:40 AM PDT

AliceWyman said

madasan said

Delete spam posts: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/locking-threads

Mozilla Support rules and guidelines links to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_spam for "forum spam" which defines it as follows:

Forum spam consists of posts on Internet forums that contain unrelated advertisements, links to malicious websites, and abusive or otherwise unwanted information. Forum spam is usually posted onto message boards by automated spambots.

Could we extend that definition for the purposes of the support forum to include posts that are actually unhelpful but are voted up? I would definitely classify such posts as "unwanted information" as far as solving the question.
For example, I came a cross a thread today where the top two "Helpful" posts (with over 50 votes each) were actually rants with content such as, "This is the worst Firefox update ever! I'm switching to Google Chrome!" By deleting such posts, "really" helpful answers can rise to the top.

''AliceWyman [[#post-54472|said]]'' <blockquote> ''madasan [[#post-54223|said]]'' <blockquote> * Delete spam posts: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/locking-threads </blockquote> [[Forum rules and guidelines]] links to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_spam for "forum spam" which defines it as follows: <blockquote>'''Forum spam''' consists of posts on Internet forums that contain unrelated advertisements, links to malicious websites, and abusive or otherwise unwanted information. Forum spam is usually posted onto message boards by automated spambots.</blockquote> Could we extend that definition for the purposes of the support forum to include posts that are actually unhelpful but are voted up? I would definitely classify such posts as "unwanted information" as far as solving the question. For example, I came a cross a thread today where the top two "Helpful" posts (with over 50 votes each) were actually rants with content such as, "This is the worst Firefox update ever! I'm switching to Google Chrome!" By deleting such posts, "really" helpful answers can rise to the top.

AliceWyman 6329 posts

October 30, 2013, 4:02:55 AM PDT

madasan said

Moderators actions:
Deactivate spammer accounts or report to Admin if they are unsure: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/forum-moderators/709005
Thoughts? Anything that can be added and I missed?

The question of when an account should or should not be deactivated came up in another discussion: /forums/forum-moderators/708722

Noah_SUMO said (on October 28, 2013)

There's a bug with deactivating accounts with useful posts that ends up deleting the account and all its associated work after a certain timeframe. For that reason I do not advise deactivating these accounts. ONLY spammer/abusive accounts should be deactivated. Ricky is working on fixing this bug.

Anyone know the bug number on this and the status? _{Edit: I found a bug filed on this issue 2013-10-29 by Ricky: Bug 932333 - Fix remove_expired_registration_profiles() cron job to avoid data loss.}

Also, what's an "abusive" account and shouldn't those be referred to admin? AFAIK the only accounts that moderators should deactivate are those used for posting spam.

''madasan [[#post-54223|said]]'' <blockquote> Moderators actions: * Deactivate spammer accounts or report to Admin if they are unsure: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/forum-moderators/709005 Thoughts? Anything that can be added and I missed? </blockquote> The question of when an account should or should not be deactivated came up in another discussion: [/forums/forum-moderators/708722] ''Noah_SUMO said'' (on October 28, 2013) <blockquote> There's a bug with deactivating accounts with useful posts that ends up deleting the account and all its associated work after a certain timeframe. For that reason I do not advise deactivating these accounts. ONLY spammer/abusive accounts should be deactivated. Ricky is working on fixing this bug.</blockquote> Anyone know the bug number on this and the status? Edit: I found a bug filed on this issue 2013-10-29 by Ricky: [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=932333 Bug 932333] - Fix remove_expired_registration_profiles() cron job to avoid data loss. Also, what's an "abusive" account and shouldn't those be referred to admin? AFAIK the only accounts that moderators should deactivate are those used for posting spam.

Modified by AliceWyman on October 30, 2013, 8:42:08 AM PDT

AliceWyman 6329 posts

November 18, 2013, 8:18:07 PM PST

Another issue is how moderators should deal with arguments that ~~take place among~~ involve other moderators or top contributors in a support forum thread. Of course, the thread should not be locked if the thread owner is still active in the thread and is waiting for a solution.

Should a moderator add a post to the support forum thread, inviting the parties in question to continue their discussion via PM or in one of the contributor forums (such as /forums/contributors or /forums/support-forum-contributors) ... or should the "invitation" be done by PM? If a moderator is involved in the disagreement, should this even be done by another moderator or should the matter be brought up in the moderators forum or referred directly to an admin? This came up in a moderators discussion, /forums/forum-moderators/709773?#post-55415

Another issue is how moderators should deal with arguments that <s>take place among</s> ''involve other'' moderators or top contributors in a support forum thread. Of course, the thread should not be locked if the thread owner is still active in the thread and is waiting for a solution. Should a moderator add a post to the support forum thread, inviting the parties in question to continue their discussion via PM or in one of the contributor forums (such as [/forums/contributors] or [/forums/support-forum-contributors]) ... or should the "invitation" be done by PM? If a moderator is involved in the disagreement, should this even be done by another moderator or should the matter be brought up in the moderators forum or referred directly to an admin? This came up in a moderators discussion, [/forums/forum-moderators/709773?#post-55415]

Modified by AliceWyman on November 18, 2013, 8:47:26 PM PST

AliceWyman 6329 posts

November 27, 2013, 5:56:09 AM PST

Alice Wyman said

madasan said
2. Threads Not Related to Mozilla Suggestions: - answer to the OP the forum is for Firefox questions only - lock thread

This is from the existing Mozilla Support rules and guidelines:
*Posts in the Firefox support forum must be either questions about the use of Firefox or answers to those questions. Users who post about things other than Firefox support will be directed to an alternative discussion place (ex: mozillaZine) if appropriate.

We have to re-open this, now that Webmaker is supported - see https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related

''Alice Wyman [[#post-51238|said]]'' <blockquote> ''madasan [[#post-51236|said]]'' <blockquote> 2. [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709028?last=51212 Threads Not Related to Mozilla] Suggestions: - answer to the OP the forum is for Firefox questions only - lock thread </blockquote> This is from the existing [[Forum rules and guidelines]]: *Posts in the Firefox support forum must be either questions about the use of Firefox or answers to those questions. Users who post about things other than Firefox support will be directed to an alternative discussion place (ex: mozillaZine) if appropriate. </blockquote> We have to re-open this, now that Webmaker is supported - see https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related

John99 3665 posts

November 27, 2013, 8:05:07 AM PST

Thanks Alice, I had initially intended to post in this thread but had two open at once and posted in the wrong thread. I am just not at all sure what posts could be considered on topic for Webmaker. It could potentially massively widen the scope of AAQ.

An easy option is to allow anything suitably asked and tagged, and within 12 hours they will be escalated as tier two. At the moment we only have the one question AFAIK, but it would be wrong to ignore this.

Update re Alice's post above

Anyone know the bug number on this and the status? Edit: I found a bug filed on this issue 2013-10-29 by Ricky: Bug 932333 - Fix remove_expired_registration_profiles() cron job to avoid data loss.
That has been fixed, since then. Lets hope it did not introduce any other bugs though.

Thanks Alice, I had initially intended to post in this thread but had two open at once and [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709713?last=55586&page=2#post-55573 posted] in the wrong thread. I am just not at all sure what posts could be considered on topic for Webmaker. It could potentially massively widen the scope of AAQ. An easy option is to allow anything suitably asked and tagged, and within 12 hours they will be escalated as tier two. At the moment we only have the one question AFAIK, but it would be wrong to ignore this. -------- Update re Alice's post above <blockquote>Anyone know the bug number on this and the status? Edit: I found a bug filed on this issue 2013-10-29 by Ricky: Bug 932333 - Fix remove_expired_registration_profiles() cron job to avoid data loss.<blockquote> That has been fixed, since then. Lets hope it did not introduce any other bugs though.

Modified by John99 on January 12, 2014, 9:38:08 AM PST

John99 3665 posts

December 16, 2013, 3:02:13 AM PST

Use or Misuse of PMs is mentioned in the Moderators forum. I am not sure at present it is appropriate to copy or extract comments from that closed forum, at least until an Admin has commented in the Mods forum. It seems appropriate to add this as a subject to the Etherpads.

AliceWyman 6329 posts

January 3, 2014, 10:25:32 PM PST

This discussion was started on March 5 2013. It's now January 4 2014 and we're only halfway through the https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-guidelines list of topics.

Could the Mozilla Support rules and guidelines and Answering questions on the support forum be updated with what's been agreed on already? Related discussion in the Moderator's forum:

/forums/forum-moderators/709841 [Attn Admin] Urgent guidelines update needed. ...

Is a new Moderator guidelines document needed (at least a draft)?

This discussion was started on March 5 2013. It's now January 4 2014 and we're only halfway through the https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-guidelines list of topics. Could the [[Forum rules and guidelines]] and [[Answering questions on the support forum]] be updated with what's been agreed on already? Related discussion in the Moderator's forum: *[/forums/forum-moderators/709841] ''[Attn Admin] Urgent guidelines update needed. ...'' Is a new [[Moderator guidelines]] document needed (at least a draft)?

John99 3665 posts

January 6, 2014, 8:35:23 PM PST

DUPLICATE THREADS

When closing a thread as a duplicate, always make a reply. We removed closed threads from the unsolved metrics IIRC but they are not removed from the no reply threads in the advanced search.

Better still ensure those reporting the duplicate make a reply and add a link to the duplicate before reporting. Add that as guidance to contributors.

DEACTIVATING USERS AT USERS REQUEST Mods are able to do this this at a users request. But I am still looking for Admin guidance regarding the re-use of email accounts.

John99 said

Attn Admin, (Bump.
The question of who reviews and the procedure for following upon and using [Attn Admin] posts is as far as we can see as contributors still left in abeyance.) Note in another thread I also asked about the email position John99 said
... , I just thought I better ask before de-activating the account, in-case the change is something you could do yourself, as that would save you the trouble of re-registering the account at a later date.
I think you may then have to re-register with another email account. I am not sure of that last point. ..... Thanks, John

Cheers, John

OFFTOPIC

We urgently need clarification of this, before we are able to write Moderator Guidelines about what is on topic

TAG
We have a brand new two state offtopic tag with no agreed & published guidance whatsowever on its use.
WEBMAKER
We must not forget Webmaker posts are now asked directly in the AAQ forum. Do we need to very carefully consider whether a question would be on topic if considered from a Webmaker perspective. We need guidance on that.
THUNDERBIRD
That should be easier. Some questions may be on topic viewed from a T.bird perspective.
Incidentally we can not expect to rely on tagging or topics to identify or search for such questions, or other questions about our alternative products.
(See <rant>Tags usless for contributors, with equally useless topics (from a Search point of view) especially cor-el's reply)

DUPLICATE THREADS When closing a thread as a duplicate, always make a reply. We removed closed threads from the unsolved metrics IIRC but they are not removed from the no reply threads in the advanced search. Better still ensure those reporting the duplicate make a reply and add a link to the duplicate before reporting. Add that as guidance to contributors. DEACTIVATING USERS AT USERS REQUEST Mods are able to do this this at a users request. But I am still looking for Admin guidance regarding the re-use of email accounts. ''John99 [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709856?last=56296#post-56296 said]'' <blockquote> Attn Admin, (Bump. The question of who reviews and the procedure for following upon and using [Attn Admin] posts is as far as we can see as contributors still left in abeyance.) Note in another thread I also asked about the email position John99 ''[/contributors/709863#post-56290 said]'' <blockquote> ... , I just thought I better ask before de-activating the account, in-case the change is something you could do yourself, as that would save you the trouble of re-registering the account at a later date. I think you may then have to re-register with another email account. I am not sure of that last point. ..... Thanks, John </blockquote> Cheers, John </blockquote> OFFTOPIC We urgently need clarification of this, before we are able to write Moderator Guidelines about what is on topic * TAG We have a brand new two state offtopic tag with no agreed & published guidance whatsowever on its use. * WEBMAKER We must not forget Webmaker posts are now asked directly in the AAQ forum. Do we need to very carefully consider whether a question would be on topic if considered from a Webmaker perspective. We need guidance on that. * THUNDERBIRD That should be easier. Some questions may be on topic viewed from a T.bird perspective. * Incidentally we can not expect to rely on tagging or topics to identify or search for such questions, or other questions about our alternative products. (See ''<rant>Tags usless for contributors, with equally useless topics (from a Search point of view)'' especially '''''cor-el's''' [/forums/contributors/709862#post-56265 reply])

Madasan 1255 posts

January 7, 2014, 1:56:19 AM PST

AliceWyman said

Could the Mozilla Support rules and guidelines and Answering questions on the support forum be updated with what's been agreed on already? Related discussion in the Moderator's forum:
/forums/forum-moderators/709841 [Attn Admin] Urgent guidelines update needed. ...
Is a new Moderator guidelines document needed (at least a draft)?

Yes I will do that this week. The reason we have been so slow is because of the multiple changes that affected the forum last year (both in terms of features and procedures, such as HelpDesk being involved, new products etc) so we had to constantly go back and revise and modify guidelines without really moving forward. I do hope this will be much easier starting next week after we set up the goals for the year.

John99 said

DUPLICATE THREADS When closing a thread as a duplicate, always make a reply. We removed closed threads from the unsolved metrics IIRC but they are not removed from the no reply threads in the advanced search. Better still ensure those reporting the duplicate make a reply and add a link to the duplicate before reporting. Add that as guidance to contributors. DEACTIVATING USERS AT USERS REQUEST Mods are able to do this this at a users request. But I am still looking for Admin guidance regarding the re-use of email accounts. John99 said OFFTOPIC We urgently need clarification of this, before we are able to write Moderator Guidelines about what is on topic
TAG
We have a brand new two state offtopic tag with no agreed & published guidance whatsowever on its use.
WEBMAKER
We must not forget Webmaker posts are now asked directly in the AAQ forum. Do we need to very carefully consider whether a question would be on topic if considered from a Webmaker perspective. We need guidance on that.
THUNDERBIRD
That should be easier. Some questions may be on topic viewed from a T.bird perspective.
Incidentally we can not expect to rely on tagging or topics to identify or search for such questions, or other questions about our alternative products.
(See <rant>Tags usless for contributors, with equally useless topics (from a Search point of view) especially cor-el's reply)

John, I feel your pain. These are things that are not clear yet even with the multiple Mozilla teams that are now using or intend to use SUMO as their support platform. As I said in the Monday meeting we will be using this week to clarify some goals for the forums in 2014 and how we integrate multiple languages and products will definitely be one of them. Bear with me until the end of the week when I hope to have more clarity on this.

''AliceWyman [[#post-56255|said]]'' <blockquote> Could the [[Forum rules and guidelines]] and [[Answering questions on the support forum]] be updated with what's been agreed on already? Related discussion in the Moderator's forum: *[/forums/forum-moderators/709841] ''[Attn Admin] Urgent guidelines update needed. ...'' Is a new [[Moderator guidelines]] document needed (at least a draft)? </blockquote> Yes I will do that this week. The reason we have been so slow is because of the multiple changes that affected the forum last year (both in terms of features and procedures, such as HelpDesk being involved, new products etc) so we had to constantly go back and revise and modify guidelines without really moving forward. I do hope this will be much easier starting next week after we set up the goals for the year. ''John99 [[#post-56299|said]]'' <blockquote> DUPLICATE THREADS When closing a thread as a duplicate, always make a reply. We removed closed threads from the unsolved metrics IIRC but they are not removed from the no reply threads in the advanced search. Better still ensure those reporting the duplicate make a reply and add a link to the duplicate before reporting. Add that as guidance to contributors. DEACTIVATING USERS AT USERS REQUEST Mods are able to do this this at a users request. But I am still looking for Admin guidance regarding the re-use of email accounts. ''John99 [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709856?last=56296#post-56296 said]'' OFFTOPIC We urgently need clarification of this, before we are able to write Moderator Guidelines about what is on topic * TAG We have a brand new two state offtopic tag with no agreed & published guidance whatsowever on its use. * WEBMAKER We must not forget Webmaker posts are now asked directly in the AAQ forum. Do we need to very carefully consider whether a question would be on topic if considered from a Webmaker perspective. We need guidance on that. * THUNDERBIRD That should be easier. Some questions may be on topic viewed from a T.bird perspective. * Incidentally we can not expect to rely on tagging or topics to identify or search for such questions, or other questions about our alternative products. (See ''<rant>Tags usless for contributors, with equally useless topics (from a Search point of view)'' especially '''''cor-el's''' [/forums/contributors/709862#post-56265 reply]) </blockquote> John, I feel your pain. These are things that are not clear yet even with the multiple Mozilla teams that are now using or intend to use SUMO as their support platform. As I said in the Monday meeting we will be using this week to clarify some goals for the forums in 2014 and how we integrate multiple languages and products will definitely be one of them. Bear with me until the end of the week when I hope to have more clarity on this.

cor-el 1494 posts

January 7, 2014, 2:09:33 PM PST

It would be fine if the search results pages would show whether a thread is locked or archived.
Moderators would benefit from such status info.
Currently it only shows solved and no reply status.
This also helps if you search for posts by some one who has posted duplicate or spam threads.
Now you have to open each thread to see if they are already locked in case locked threads are included in the search.

It would be fine if the search results pages would show whether a thread is locked or archived. Moderators would benefit from such status info. Currently it only shows solved and no reply status. This also helps if you search for posts by some one who has posted duplicate or spam threads. Now you have to open each thread to see if they are already locked in case locked threads are included in the search.

AliceWyman 6329 posts

January 7, 2014, 8:12:43 PM PST

Madasan said

WE ARE CURRENTLY DISCUSSING: Topic number 7 - Moderator actions You can find the etherpad with background information here

Also related: /forums/contributors/709713 What does it take to become a moderator? ...which links to https://etherpad.mozilla.org/moderators

cor-el said

It would be fine if the search results pages would show whether a thread is locked or archived.
Moderators would benefit from such status info.
Currently it only shows solved and no reply status.
This also helps if you search for posts by some one who has posted duplicate or spam threads.
Now you have to open each thread to see if they are already locked in case locked threads are included in the search.

cor-el, I copied the above to the thread that John99 started on search results, here:

(Posted Dec 25, 2013) /forums/contributors/709852 Has the Search function been changed, poor results

''Madasan [/forums/contributors/709033?&page=1#post-51236 said]'' <blockquote> WE ARE CURRENTLY DISCUSSING: '''Topic number 7 - Moderator actions ''' You can find the etherpad with background information [https://etherpad.mozilla.org/moderators-guidelines here] </blockquote> Also related: [/forums/contributors/709713] ''What does it take to become a moderator?'' ...which links to https://etherpad.mozilla.org/moderators ''cor-el [[#post-56321|said]]'' <blockquote> It would be fine if the search results pages would show whether a thread is locked or archived. Moderators would benefit from such status info. Currently it only shows solved and no reply status. This also helps if you search for posts by some one who has posted duplicate or spam threads. Now you have to open each thread to see if they are already locked in case locked threads are included in the search. </blockquote> cor-el, I copied the above to the thread that John99 started on search results, here: *(Posted Dec 25, 2013) [/forums/contributors/709852] ''Has the Search function been changed, poor results''

Modified by AliceWyman on January 7, 2014, 8:32:35 PM PST

AliceWyman 6329 posts

January 8, 2014, 7:39:34 PM PST

...from /contributors/709033?last=56325&page=5 Madasan said

Moderators actions:
Deactivate spammer accounts or report to Admin if they are unsure: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/forum-moderators/709005
Thoughts? Anything that can be added and I missed?

I've noticed that moderators are also deactivating accounts when a user is requesting to close his account. See /forums/contributors/709856 and /forums/contributors/709863 for recent examples. We need guidelines on when it's OK for a moderator to deactivate a user account for reasons other than spam.

...from [/contributors/709033?last=56325&page=5] ''Madasan [[#post-54223|said]]'' <blockquote> Moderators actions: * Deactivate spammer accounts or report to Admin if they are unsure: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/forum-moderators/709005 Thoughts? Anything that can be added and I missed? </blockquote> I've noticed that moderators are also deactivating accounts when a user is requesting to close his account. See [/forums/contributors/709856] and [/forums/contributors/709863] for recent examples. We need guidelines on when it's OK for a moderator to deactivate a user account for reasons other than spam.

AliceWyman 6329 posts

January 9, 2014, 2:26:18 AM PST

Deactivating accounts for reasons other than spam
X-ref: /forums/forum-moderators/709009?page=2#post-56346 Disabled Users log

'''Deactivating accounts for reasons other than spam''' X-ref: [/forums/forum-moderators/709009?page=2#post-56346] Disabled Users log

John99 3665 posts

January 12, 2014, 7:21:08 AM PST

There was a proposal for an etherpad for banned links. I created one (not any links in it as yet) and X-linked to the other etherpads.

John99 3665 posts

January 18, 2014, 10:51:12 PM PST

Clarifying & improving thread titles
I believe the-edmeister may have lost interest in this rather slow moving thread, bu IIRC has posted previously suggesting Moderator responsibilities include clarifying threads for instance improving titles. In addition to of course selecting and marking solutions if the thread is solved but not marked as such.

Cross Linking
Remembering that helpful post are no longer listed in the first page; I would also suggest, at least on the longer multi-page threads it is useful to link to those or other useful posts from the chosen solution or Original post.

Locking Threads
It is essential we set a policy on when it is appropriate to lock a thread. Even if that policy includes "at a moderator’s discretion, or judgement. (with any objection referred to an Admin" - even better & much faster maybe refer to another Mod before referring to Admin)

Threads with Multiple questions
I and Alice have said there are instab-nceswheremultiplepostsmay actually be useful.Normally they are not.

We need guidelines on that'
- Possibly allow rants etc
  (including complaints on feature regressions) to continue not worth moderating or repeatedly answering properly (Could edit OP in that case to say better to ask own question if a reply needed)
- Breaking issues.
  In some cases we do need me toos, STR, & yet unproven or untried suggestions for solutions.
In my opinion contributors should tell users not to post
AND not then answer the supplemental question.
Remember this has implications for HelpDesk.
- I expect HelpDesk to continue following up a thread as long as the OP is responding. (Not sure that has been confirmed)

I will make a brief note in the etherpad about this.

Clarifying & improving thread titles I believe ''the-edmeister'' may have lost interest in this rather slow moving thread, bu IIRC has posted previously suggesting Moderator responsibilities include clarifying threads for instance improving titles. In addition to of course selecting and marking solutions if the thread is solved but not marked as such. Cross Linking Remembering that helpful post are no longer listed in the first page; I would also suggest, at least on the longer multi-page threads it is useful to link to those or other useful posts from the chosen solution or Original post. Locking Threads It is essential we set a policy on when it is appropriate to lock a thread. Even if that policy includes ''"at a moderator’s discretion, or judgement. (with any objection referred to an Admin" '' - even better & much faster maybe refer to another Mod before referring to Admin) Threads with Multiple questions I and Alice have said there are instab-nceswheremultiplepostsmay actually be useful.Normally they are not. # We need guidelines on that' #* Possibly allow rants etc (including complaints on feature regressions) to continue not worth moderating or repeatedly answering properly (Could edit OP in that case to say better to ask own question if a reply needed) #*Breaking issues. In some cases we do need ''me toos'', STR, & yet unproven or untried suggestions for solutions. # In my opinion contributors should tell users not to post AND not then answer the supplemental question. # Remember this has implications for HelpDesk. #* I expect HelpDesk to continue following up a thread as long as the OP is responding. (Not sure that has been confirmed) I will make a brief note in the etherpad about this.

Modified by John99 on January 18, 2014, 10:53:27 PM PST

John99 3665 posts

January 30, 2014, 7:16:27 AM PST

Madalina said

Hi John,

I was talking about publishing the guidelines that have already been agreed upon such as the one on executable files. Same with threads in other languages. Offtopic and escalation guidelines are also close to an end and they will be ready before next week. We can also put on the agenda to have the moderation guidelines ready by then.

One thing to remember is that deciding on guidelines takes time especially if we want to hear everybody's opinion. And new things come up all the time. One thing we should commit to is to make sure that we actually finalize one guideline before jumping to the next thing that comes up. I think that if we also start publishing guidelines the moment we agree upon them, things will go much faster.

I say let's make the moderation guidelines a priority right now and stick to them so we can publish next week. I"m also thinking it might be easier to split the remaining topics to be discussed into new threads as the "Forum guidelines" threads keep getting hijacked by new stuff coming in so we never get the chance to finish what we started. But that's just a thought it is really up to you, what you think is easier.

My reply

Maybe start a new thread for each of the listed topics.

Just use the original for
Overall comments and strategy
(So take this conversation over there)
Historical reasons

Let's see are we able to split topics into
Agreed on or close to.
Needing further discussion or major update.
Not yet discussed

If the topics are agreed on draft the article update, or even update it. Then quickly try to work through the remaining topics trying to move them up in status.

The main problems are it kept getting left, and had major forum changes since we started talking.

Madalina [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709935?last=56883#post-56866 said] <blockquote> Hi John, I was talking about publishing the guidelines that have already been agreed upon such as the one on executable files. Same with threads in other languages. Offtopic and escalation guidelines are also close to an end and they will be ready before next week. We can also put on the agenda to have the moderation guidelines ready by then. One thing to remember is that deciding on guidelines takes time especially if we want to hear everybody's opinion. And new things come up all the time. One thing we should commit to is to make sure that we actually finalize one guideline before jumping to the next thing that comes up. I think that if we also start publishing guidelines the moment we agree upon them, things will go much faster. I say let's make the moderation guidelines a priority right now and stick to them so we can publish next week. I"m also thinking it might be easier to split the remaining topics to be discussed into new threads as the "Forum guidelines" threads keep getting hijacked by new stuff coming in so we never get the chance to finish what we started. But that's just a thought it is really up to you, what you think is easier. </blockquote> My [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709935#post-56883 reply] <blockquote> Maybe start a new thread for each of the listed topics. Just use the original for * Overall comments and strategy (So take this conversation over there) * Historical reasons Let's see are we able to split topics into # Agreed on or close to. # Needing further discussion or major update. # Not yet discussed If the topics are agreed on draft the article update, or even update it. Then quickly try to work through the remaining topics trying to move them up in status. The main problems are it kept getting left, and had major forum changes since we started talking.</blockquote>

John99 3665 posts

January 30, 2014, 7:58:38 AM PST

My thoughts after a very quick look at the etherpads

Foreign threads in Support Forum: UPDATED
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/foreign-threads
Probably agreed
Threads not related to Mozilla - UPDATED
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related
& now also please see putatative listing https://sumopad.etherpad.mozilla.org/aaq-banned-links ~J99
Probably close to agreement
- BUT I consider it needs further discussion,
  especially deciding what is off topic
  How other subjects/topics/produtcs are handled
  Use of Tags
- AND I consider HelpDesk input will be needed
- Are we sticking with
  Only a single Offtopic Tag
  but two separate cases
  Combining use of Offtopic and Escalate !!
Policy on executable links - DONE
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/executable-links
Probably agreed
Locking and deleting threads - DONE
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/locking-threads
- I consider this needs much further discussion, as events have overtaken any prior agreement
- Depends on Moderation Policy, and on Use of Offtopic Tags & Threads
- What about Rants, Breaking issues, and Multiple Questions within a thread
Duplicate threads - DONE
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/duplicate-threads
Probably agreed
Sensitive Information (& email addresses) ~J99 - DONE
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/sensitive-information
Moderator actions - NOW IN DISCUSSION!
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/moderators-guidelines
Stalled
- ALL OTHER ITEMS UNDER STILL TO BE DISCUSSED
  At least according to the etherpad.
Recruiting and training
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-recruiting-and-trainig
Single subject per thread
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/single-subject-per-thread
Report button
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/report-button
place holder (to keep etherpad and thread numbering in sync ~J99 )
So this is not actually a discussion item
Support Forum etiquette and user assurance
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-etiquette
Escalation procedure
now see https://sumo.etherpad.mozilla.org/escalation-guidelines ~J99
Misplaced post checklist - this is part of the guidelines for contributor forums
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/misplaced-posts
Recommending paid software (or support services like Tee Support)
https://etherpad.mozilla.org/paid-software

My thoughts after a very quick look at the etherpads #Foreign threads in Support Forum: UPDATED https://etherpad.mozilla.org/foreign-threads Probably agreed #Threads not related to Mozilla - UPDATED https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related & now also please see putatative listing https://sumopad.etherpad.mozilla.org/aaq-banned-links ~J99 Probably close to agreement #* '''BUT I consider it needs further discussion,''' especially deciding what is off topic How other subjects/topics/produtcs are handled Use of Tags #* AND I consider HelpDesk input will be needed #* Are we sticking with Only a single ''Offtopic Tag'' but two separate cases Combining use of Offtopic and Escalate !! # Policy on executable links - DONE https://etherpad.mozilla.org/executable-links Probably agreed # Locking and deleting threads - DONE https://etherpad.mozilla.org/locking-threads #* '''I consider this needs much further discussion, as events have overtaken any prior agreement ''' #* Depends on Moderation Policy, and on Use of Offtopic Tags & Threads #* What about Rants, Breaking issues, and Multiple Questions within a thread # Duplicate threads - DONE https://etherpad.mozilla.org/duplicate-threads Probably agreed # Sensitive Information (& email addresses) ~J99 - DONE https://etherpad.mozilla.org/sensitive-information # Moderator actions - NOW IN DISCUSSION! https://etherpad.mozilla.org/moderators-guidelines '''Stalled''' #* ''' ALL OTHER ITEMS UNDER STILL TO BE DISCUSSED ''' At least according to the etherpad. # Recruiting and training https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-recruiting-and-trainig # Single subject per thread https://etherpad.mozilla.org/single-subject-per-thread # Report button https://etherpad.mozilla.org/report-button # place holder (to keep etherpad and thread numbering in sync ~J99 ) So this is not actually a discussion item # Support Forum etiquette and user assurance https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-etiquette # Escalation procedure now see https://sumo.etherpad.mozilla.org/escalation-guidelines ~J99 # Misplaced post checklist - this is part of the guidelines for contributor forums https://etherpad.mozilla.org/misplaced-posts # Recommending paid software (or support services like Tee Support) https://etherpad.mozilla.org/paid-software

Madasan 1255 posts

January 30, 2014, 9:17:11 PM PST

Continuing the discussion we started in the Monday meeting thread:

Moving further we should use this original thread only for overall comments and strategy. The idea is to open individual threads for each guideline/topic discussion and then publish it as soon as we have an agreement. This should push everything to move more quickly and in a more efficient way.

John, as per your categorization I think we can easily split everything into 3 major buckets:

A. Agreed or close to agreement

1. Foreign threads in Support Forum: UPDATED https://etherpad.mozilla.org/foreign-threads

3. Policy on executable links - DONE https://etherpad.mozilla.org/executable-links

5. Duplicate threads - DONE https://etherpad.mozilla.org/duplicate-threads

6. Sensitive Information (& email addresses) ~J99 - DONE https://etherpad.mozilla.org/sensitive-information

The topics in the A category have already been discussed and in many cases agreed upon. Do we want to publish them already or do we want to have one last iteration for everybody just to make sure there are no further comments?

B. Needs further discussion/clarification

2. Threads not related to Mozilla - UPDATED https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related & now also please see putatative listing https://sumopad.etherpad.mozilla.org/aaq-banned-links ~J99

4. Locking and deleting threads https://etherpad.mozilla.org/locking-threads

7. Moderator actions https://etherpad.mozilla.org/moderators-guidelines

13. Escalation procedure now see https://sumo.etherpad.mozilla.org/escalation-guidelines ~J99

I have added "Escalation procedure: to this one as discussions are already going on but there are split around several threads.

The topics in the B category are topics which have been discussed but updates are needed or the discussion never came to an end. We should make sure each topic has a individual thread where the discussion is happening. Also, once an agreement is reached we should publish immediately. Topics in the B category should be a priority as they are mostly burning issues.

C. "Not yet discussed"

8. Recruiting and training https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-recruiting-and-trainig

9. Single subject per thread https://etherpad.mozilla.org/single-subject-per-thread

12. Support Forum etiquette and user assurance https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-etiquette

10. Report button https://etherpad.mozilla.org/report-button

14. Misplaced post checklist - this is part of the guidelines for contributor forums https://etherpad.mozilla.org/misplaced-posts

15. Recommending paid software (or support services like Tee Support) https://etherpad.mozilla.org/paid-software

The topics in the C category are the topics where discussions have not started yet. The same as the one in the B category we should have a thread for each of them and publish as soon as an agreement is reached.

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? If so, we can organize the main etherpad accordingly and I will modify the title of this thread as well.

Continuing the discussion we started in the [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709935?last=56906 Monday meeting thread]: Moving further we should use this original thread only for overall comments and strategy. The idea is to open individual threads for each guideline/topic discussion and then publish it as soon as we have an agreement. This should push everything to move more quickly and in a more efficient way. John, as per your categorization I think we can easily split everything into 3 major buckets: '''A. Agreed or close to agreement ''' 1. Foreign threads in Support Forum: UPDATED https://etherpad.mozilla.org/foreign-threads 3. Policy on executable links - DONE https://etherpad.mozilla.org/executable-links 5. Duplicate threads - DONE https://etherpad.mozilla.org/duplicate-threads 6. Sensitive Information (& email addresses) ~J99 - DONE https://etherpad.mozilla.org/sensitive-information The topics in the A category have already been discussed and in many cases agreed upon. Do we want to publish them already or do we want to have one last iteration for everybody just to make sure there are no further comments? '''B. Needs further discussion/clarification''' 2. Threads not related to Mozilla - UPDATED https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related & now also please see putatative listing https://sumopad.etherpad.mozilla.org/aaq-banned-links ~J99 4. Locking and deleting threads https://etherpad.mozilla.org/locking-threads 7. Moderator actions https://etherpad.mozilla.org/moderators-guidelines 13. Escalation procedure now see https://sumo.etherpad.mozilla.org/escalation-guidelines ~J99 ''I have added "Escalation procedure: to this one as discussions are already going on but there are split around several threads.'' The topics in the B category are topics which have been discussed but updates are needed or the discussion never came to an end. We should make sure each topic has a individual thread where the discussion is happening. Also, once an agreement is reached we should publish immediately. Topics in the B category should be a priority as they are mostly burning issues. '''C. "Not yet discussed"''' 8. Recruiting and training https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-recruiting-and-trainig 9. Single subject per thread https://etherpad.mozilla.org/single-subject-per-thread 12. Support Forum etiquette and user assurance https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-etiquette 10. Report button https://etherpad.mozilla.org/report-button 14. Misplaced post checklist - this is part of the guidelines for contributor forums https://etherpad.mozilla.org/misplaced-posts 15. Recommending paid software (or support services like Tee Support) https://etherpad.mozilla.org/paid-software The topics in the C category are the topics where discussions have not started yet. The same as the one in the B category we should have a thread for each of them and publish as soon as an agreement is reached. DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? If so, we can organize the [https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-guidelines main etherpad ] accordingly and I will modify the title of this thread as well.

John99 3665 posts

January 30, 2014, 9:39:24 PM PST

OOPS you have already replied above.

Thanks for the rapid response.

I will read that tonight. Have other work to do at the moment.

Cross link

I posted in https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709935?last=56912#post-56912

Madlina

I did have make an attempt to categorise the topics link 30thJan maybe you would like to respond to that next week, and also summarise the progress to date on the Moderation Guidelines discussion as quite a bit was added since you re-opened the discussion topic on 7th Jan

I will cross post this to the other thread. Maybe then the main index etherpad would need updating, but I thought that was more appropriate left to your self as I do not know if you concur with my opinions on the status.

Additionally I see no reason why at the same time we can not (open sub thread if appropriate) and discuss at the same time the closely related topics

Threads not related to Mozilla - https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related

Locking and deleting threads - https://etherpad.mozilla.org/locking-threads

Single subject per thread https://etherpad.mozilla.org/single-subject-per-thread

If we do not do that I think we will just end up having to review and revise the Moderation guidelines again after the initial writeup.

===OOPS you have already replied above.=== Thanks for the rapid response. I will read that tonight. Have other work to do at the moment. ------------ Cross link I posted in https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709935?last=56912#post-56912 <blockquote> Madlina I did have make an attempt to categorise the topics [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709033?last=56885&page=6#post-56885 link 30thJan] maybe you would like to respond to that next week, and also summarise the progress to date on the Moderation Guidelines discussion as quite a bit was added since you re-opened the discussion topic on [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709033?last=56885&page=6#post-56313 7th Jan] I will cross post this to the other thread. Maybe then the main index etherpad would need updating, but I thought that was more appropriate left to your self as I do not know if you concur with my opinions on the status. Additionally I see no reason why at the same time we can not (open sub thread if appropriate) and discuss at the same time the closely related topics ''Threads not related to Mozilla - https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related '' ''Locking and deleting threads - https://etherpad.mozilla.org/locking-threads'' ''Single subject per thread https://etherpad.mozilla.org/single-subject-per-thread'' If we do not do that I think we will just end up having to review and revise the Moderation guidelines again after the initial writeup. </blockquote>

Modified by John99 on January 30, 2014, 9:44:58 PM PST

John99 3665 posts

January 30, 2014, 9:58:37 PM PST

Madalina it did not actaully take long to read

My opinion would be

A. Agreed or close to agreement

I think one last quick iteration is worthwhile.
May be starting with a proposed draft. If necessary even add tba comments on open issues as a hidden remark left within the draft, for document reviewers & editors

B & C

I mostly agree with the rest of your proposal.
But I would be in favour of working in parallel on the closely related subjects whilst also working on the Mods guidelines topics. It seems likely to be a much faster way of getting it done.

Madalina it did not actaully take long to read My opinion would be A. Agreed or close to agreement I think '''one last quick iteration is worthwhile. ''' May be starting with a proposed draft. If necessary even add tba comments on open issues as a hidden remark left within the draft, for document reviewers & editors B & C I mostly agree with the rest of your proposal. But I would be in favour of '''working in parallel on the closely related subjects''' whilst also working on the Mods guidelines topics. It seems likely to be a much faster way of getting it done.

Explore by product

Explore by topic

Browse by product

Browse all forum threads by topic

Get help with

Search Support

Forum Guidelines - general discussion

OOPS you have already replied above.