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Windows Defender Smart Screen is turned off but still interferes with TB

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Hi. I'm a Eudora refugee (and also use Firefox), been with TB a long time, but not a super-technical person. I work at home as a freelance indexer (back-of-book indexes). I have Windows 10 on a Toshiba Satellite laptop, using peripheral screen/KB/trackball. Specs: Edition Windows 10 Home Version 21H1 Installed on ‎8/‎6/‎2020 OS build 19043.1165 Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.3530.0

I have been having a problem for a couple of years now, which my (recently deceased) computer tech had found is because "Windows Defender Smart Screen" seems to stop it, or slows down the computer horribly by hogging resources (viewed on Task Manager). Most of the time, when I've rebooted and I try to open TB, it won't open. If I watch the Task Manager, I see that SmartScreen opens as soon as I try to open TB. If I tell SS to END using Task Manager, TB still won't open, so I double-click on it again, and SS comes on again. This goes on for quite some time, until I'm not sure what happens but TB will finally open. I'm talking 30 minutes or more sometimes before TB ever opens. There is no particular pattern that I can discern in how to handle opening TB in a way that doesn't cause all these delays and often, more than one reboot. It is maddening.

Since my adviser/tech passed away, I finally disabled SmartScreen by going into Settings/Update&Security/Windows Security/App and Browser Control. From there I turned OFF "Reputation-based Protection" and then went into "Reputation-based protection settings" and turned off 4 options: Check Apps and Files, SmartScreen for Microsoft Edge, Potentially Unwanted App Blocking, and SmartScreen for Microsoft Store Apps. I also checked Edge (which I do not use) and those settings have held in that program-- they are turned off.

Things were better for a while, where if I rebooted TB would open right away, but now SmartScreen is operating again, showing up in TaskManager, even though all the settings remain turned off. I've tried to open TB and it's done it again-- Windows Defender SmartScreen opens up and uses 30% of CPU and is bright red for very high Power used. TB won't open, I try ending SS with Task Manager, TB still won't open. Now I've wasted a couple of hours testing all the settings and practically pulling out my hair (and TB has still failed to open). My computer tech of 25+ years passed away earlier this year and I don't have anyone to consult with. But in any case, she was fairly well stumped by this behavior.

Has anyone else had this problem? Do I just need to buy a new computer? Will that help or is this problem going to follow me? What is wrong? I don't add programs or apps very often and I'm careful to use proper sites, which is why I thought turning off Windows Defender Smart Screen would be ok. As I send this plea for help, according to Task Manager, TB is listed as open but the program itself is not open, and SmartScreen is open and hogging resources. I'm going to try rebooting again.

Thank you for your time, --Victoria

Hi. I'm a Eudora refugee (and also use Firefox), been with TB a long time, but not a super-technical person. I work at home as a freelance indexer (back-of-book indexes). I have Windows 10 on a Toshiba Satellite laptop, using peripheral screen/KB/trackball. Specs: Edition Windows 10 Home Version 21H1 Installed on ‎8/‎6/‎2020 OS build 19043.1165 Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.3530.0 I have been having a problem for a couple of years now, which my (recently deceased) computer tech had found is because "Windows Defender Smart Screen" seems to stop it, or slows down the computer horribly by hogging resources (viewed on Task Manager). Most of the time, when I've rebooted and I try to open TB, it won't open. If I watch the Task Manager, I see that SmartScreen opens as soon as I try to open TB. If I tell SS to END using Task Manager, TB still won't open, so I double-click on it again, and SS comes on again. This goes on for quite some time, until I'm not sure what happens but TB will finally open. I'm talking 30 minutes or more sometimes before TB ever opens. There is no particular pattern that I can discern in how to handle opening TB in a way that doesn't cause all these delays and often, more than one reboot. It is maddening. Since my adviser/tech passed away, I finally disabled SmartScreen by going into Settings/Update&Security/Windows Security/App and Browser Control. From there I turned OFF "Reputation-based Protection" and then went into "Reputation-based protection settings" and turned off 4 options: Check Apps and Files, SmartScreen for Microsoft Edge, Potentially Unwanted App Blocking, and SmartScreen for Microsoft Store Apps. I also checked Edge (which I do not use) and those settings have held in that program-- they are turned off. Things were better for a while, where if I rebooted TB would open right away, but now SmartScreen is operating again, showing up in TaskManager, even though all the settings remain turned off. I've tried to open TB and it's done it again-- Windows Defender SmartScreen opens up and uses 30% of CPU and is bright red for very high Power used. TB won't open, I try ending SS with Task Manager, TB still won't open. Now I've wasted a couple of hours testing all the settings and practically pulling out my hair (and TB has still failed to open). My computer tech of 25+ years passed away earlier this year and I don't have anyone to consult with. But in any case, she was fairly well stumped by this behavior. Has anyone else had this problem? Do I just need to buy a new computer? Will that help or is this problem going to follow me? What is wrong? I don't add programs or apps very often and I'm careful to use proper sites, which is why I thought turning off Windows Defender Smart Screen would be ok. As I send this plea for help, according to Task Manager, TB is listed as open but the program itself is not open, and SmartScreen is open and hogging resources. I'm going to try rebooting again. Thank you for your time, --Victoria

Chosen solution

I don't see any connection between the new Gmail account and SmartScreen. We can tackle that once Thunderbird or your computer is running as it should. This may not be a Thunderbird issue at all, but a Windows problem, specifically your Windows setup.

SmartScreen should not be freaking out on Tbird because Tbird is not a low-reputation program, and has a trustworthy digital signature UNLESS your copy of Tbird has been compromised, or the files it's accessing are infected, in which case you should be getting an alert to that effect. Let's see if a new profile makes any difference in startup performance. Quit Tbird then open its Profile Manager as described here Profile Manager - Create and remove Thunderbird profiles

Create a new profile, but don't make it the default by unchecking the option that says "use the selected profile without asking at startup" then start Tbird using the new profile. Since it's a new blank profile with no accounts, add-ons or other data to load, Tbird should start right up. If it does without much of a fuss from SmartScreen, then we can conclude that your old profile is the culprit. If it doesn't start right up and exhibits the same behaviour, we can rule out the old profile as the cause.

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All Replies (12)

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Where is your Thunderbird profile folder located? Given you have issue and million don't I am thinking you probably have a non standard location for either your mail or your profile. Then you say you used Eudora and old Eudora users almost always want to store things somewhere other than the default. Seems to go with the territory.

Goto the troubleshooting information on the help menu and click the open folder button. That will open the folder in windows file explorer so you can see where it is.

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Thank you for your help! This is what I found: C:\Users\Victoria\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\hid4pw25.default

??

--Victoria

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That sounds about normal. SO much for that bright idea.

Now have a look in your account settings for each account.

At the bottom of server settings (you might have to scroll to see it. I do) is a local directory. Do these all start with C:\Users\Victoria\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\hid4pw25.default

I would expect things like /mail/server names and \imapmail\servernames really but non standard I was thinking one or all might point o documents to a cloud backed up folder.

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Thank you. They all (3) start with the same profile.

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Is Thunderbird the only program affected by this behaviour on your system?

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Thunderbird is the only program that won't open properly. Other programs, such as Firefox, start being very sluggish because Windows Defender SmartScreen is hogging resources. But TB is the only one that can't open, etc.

I don't know if this is related, but Google will not allow me to directly interact with a newer (last 2? years) email address that I created. I cannot collect email for that address, and Google will not forward the email for that address to me-- it sends me error messages that the username and password are invalid, but the thing is they are identical to the ones I can log directly into gmail.com with. The newer address is set up with identical Server Settings, Outgoing Server, everything is identical, but Google won't let me use it in TB. I prefer Pop mail because I want all my email in one place, where I can manage it directly, not floating copies everywhere. My working life is set up that way and that's what works for me. But I wonder if gmail may be refusing TB because of the pop mail settings. In any case, this email not working is not an issue, the email is only occasionally needed. But I wonder if the email issue is somehow related to the SmartScreen/TB conflict.

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Chosen Solution

I don't see any connection between the new Gmail account and SmartScreen. We can tackle that once Thunderbird or your computer is running as it should. This may not be a Thunderbird issue at all, but a Windows problem, specifically your Windows setup.

SmartScreen should not be freaking out on Tbird because Tbird is not a low-reputation program, and has a trustworthy digital signature UNLESS your copy of Tbird has been compromised, or the files it's accessing are infected, in which case you should be getting an alert to that effect. Let's see if a new profile makes any difference in startup performance. Quit Tbird then open its Profile Manager as described here Profile Manager - Create and remove Thunderbird profiles

Create a new profile, but don't make it the default by unchecking the option that says "use the selected profile without asking at startup" then start Tbird using the new profile. Since it's a new blank profile with no accounts, add-ons or other data to load, Tbird should start right up. If it does without much of a fuss from SmartScreen, then we can conclude that your old profile is the culprit. If it doesn't start right up and exhibits the same behaviour, we can rule out the old profile as the cause.

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It worked!! Thank you!! SmartScreen did engage, per inspection at Task Manager, but Tbird opened right up. I went ahead and put in my main email and password. So now all my old emails/folder structure, settings, add-ons, etc. are not visible in this new iteration. Can you help me reclaim all my old material etc? Thank you so much! I'm making a donation to Tbird today.

wow

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Victoria-nola said

So now all my old emails/folder structure, settings, add-ons, etc. are not visible in this new iteration. Can you help me reclaim all my old material etc?

Those are in the old profile. Let's see if adding the old profile's folder C:\Users\Victoria\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\hid4pw25.default to Windows Defender's exclusions will allow Tbird to load it without interference from SmartScreen. This is recommended, because interference from security programs is a well known cause of trouble for Tbird.

For steps to follow, go to https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/security/defender-endpoint/microsoft-defender-security-center-antivirus?view=o365-worldwide, then start the Profile Manager and launch the old profile.

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Thank you! This worked, and the problem appears to be solved. I really appreciate the help getting it set up so I didn't have to figure out all my settings and add-ons again. Phew! Once again the great people at Tbird community support have come through for me. Thank you so much, Stans. All best wishes. --Victoria

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You can delete the new test profile now and make the old one the default so that you don't have to choose which one Thunderbird should load at every startup.

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I didn't actually delete it but I did return to the default and made it load automatically. My computer is still slow, but at least I'm set up to optimize Windows Defender compatibility with Tbird. THANK YOU!!!!!