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Thunderbird 78.4 old Addressing an email

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  • 4 have this problem
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  • Last reply by jskang

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Is there a setting I'm missing that makes it so the TO, CC, and BCC to show like Thunderbird ver 68 ? I want the old Addressing an email, MRC Compose addon it not support ver 78.4

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No, there isn't. It's a hardcoded new layout. You'll have to revert to v68 and stick to it OR get used to the new layout.

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In 2015 there was a wonderful chain of arguments here https://support.mozilla.org/bm/questions/1078298#answer-768547 AGAINST the current implementation. All of that still applies.

I noticed it, when I "replied all" to an email and out of the 8 TO's and 15 CC's I wanted to change 4 TO's to CC and 7 CC's to TO. With TB 68 I just had to click to the left in the "TO, CC, BCC" drop-down of each address in question and change it. Easy two-click action.

Now for each of those addresses I have to place the cursor, mark the name, cut it out, place the cursor again, and paste it, hoping that I don't miss to cut, and paste twice the same or in the middle of an address. It's very messy and unnecessarily complicated. I wonder why that is now called an "improvement".

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Thank you for the quick reply. That seems quite useful for the given scenario. :-)

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Achim, please elaborate and share what you have found "quite useful for the given scenario" :-)

achimpeters said

In 2015 there was a wonderful chain of arguments here https://support.mozilla.org/bm/questions/1078298#answer-768547 AGAINST the current implementation. All of that still applies.

No, it does not. The comment makes numerous assumptions. Our new implementation proves most of that completely wrong. E.g., in TB 78+, you can even just drag one or more selected recipients from To field to BCC field *and* position it exactly where you want to, without breaking any other recipients.

I noticed it, when I "replied all" to an email and out of the 8 TO's and 15 CC's I wanted to change 4 TO's to CC and 7 CC's to TO. With TB 68 I just had to click to the left in the "TO, CC, BCC" drop-down of each address in question and change it. Easy two-click action.

No, in previous versions of TB, that's a clumsy N x 2-click action where N is the number of addresses to change. Please try changing just 50 email addresses from To to BCC in old TB 68, and report back how unefficient that is...

Now for each of those addresses I have to place the cursor, mark the name, cut it out, place the cursor again, and paste it, hoping that I don't miss to cut, and paste twice the same or in the middle of an address. It's very messy and unnecessarily complicated. I wonder why that is now called an "improvement".

I think you have discovered from documentation Addressing an Email that there are many extremely efficient ways for selecting multiple recipients with keyboard (sorry, shift-selection not yet working for mouse, but ctrl+click does the trick), and again many extremely efficient ways of moving them from To to BCC or some such.

E.g., for selecting recipients: - click on first recipient to move, then press shift+cursor to select more adjacent recipients, - or hold Ctrl for keyboard-navigating without losing selection and then - Ctrl+Space or Ctrl+Click to add random recipients to the selection.

For moving recipients from To to BCC: - Right-click on one of the selected recipients, chose "Move to BCC" from context menu. - Or just drag selected recipients to BCC. - Or Ctrl+X to cut, then Ctrl+V, Enter to paste into BCC.

Modified by thomas8

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The above suggestions are not the point. They are completely counter to workflow. The business of entering and editing existing addresses, moving addresses, and entering addresses (it is normal to enter addresses and then consider whether they should be cc or bcc) does not work nearly as well in the new interface. Editing an error is also a multistage process. It seems very peculiar to hard code a new interface without the option of the previous one.

Let me be precise. The previous addressing system was the _primary_ reason I chose to use Thunderbird in the first place as it was so much better than others out there. It seems peculiar to kill what is, at least to some, Thunderbird's USP.

This is a retrograde step, and was not something that users asked for in any numbers.

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somates said

The above suggestions are not the point. They are completely counter to workflow. The business of entering and editing existing addresses, moving addresses, and entering addresses (it is normal to enter addresses and then consider whether they should be cc or bcc) does not work nearly as well in the new interface. Editing an error is also a multistage process. It seems very peculiar to hard code a new interface without the option of the previous one. Let me be precise. The previous addressing system was the _primary_ reason I chose to use Thunderbird in the first place as it was so much better than others out there. It seems peculiar to kill what is, at least to some, Thunderbird's USP. This is a retrograde step, and was not something that users asked for in any numbers.

It may surprise you that a lot of folks don't mind the new layout and looks and find it an improvement over the previous versions. It's perfectly fine that you don't share the same opinion, plus you can always downgrade to the previous version and disable automatic updates.

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Saying "if you don't like it you can go back' isn't anything but a reply from the sort of idiot that designed this and thinks it's great. It isn't. It's crap. Did you ask any of the users before you did this stupid change? Thought not. I've used Thunderbird since it first came out. This change is inspiring me to change to Outlook. It's much slower to use when I have cc and bcc on emails. I don't see a 'lot of folks' commenting on how wonderful it is but I do see a number of people saying it's rubbish. Take off the rose-tinted glasses and listen to the users.

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I won't get into a pissing contest no matter how much you'd love me to. Keep hurling those insults, they'll sure get you listened to. You've got options, what you do with them is up to you. I'm out.

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Can we make a petition to ask to change to the previous version the addressing of composing new emails?

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sraros You do not need to post this identical comment in any thread related to the new addressing system. This is not a chat forum.


sraros Petition will not be happening and there is no going backwards. People like the old style only because it is what they are used to hence why they think it is faster. In reality, it is not faster. The new version has far less clicks, I know because I've tested and counted. The new version is also significantly better for lists that previously meant entering commas. Now that is done automatically.

I also was not happy at first because it meant learning something new and that meant a slow down in the beginning as you get to grips with it.

I suggest you read the information that people have taken the time to produce for users who would prefer a refresher in how things work. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/addressing-email

Please note, that development in this area has not stopped and additional functionality is being looked into to improve such things as automatically setting Cc so it is open already for those users who repeated Cc contacts as used in many business environments. So there is more to come in the future.

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pkellingley re: I've used Thunderbird since it first came out. ... It's much slower to use when I have cc and bcc on emails.

I've also used Thunderbird since it first came out and it was initially a bit of a shock. Basically, it is a well known fact that people do not like change because it derails them. They suddenly slow down and get frustrated because their automatic muscle memory on how things worked is no longer helping them.

Whenever, anything new is brought out, there are always a few people who feel unhappy and some vent frustrations on other users, not that it helps anyone and abusive behaviour in any form is not appreciated nor necessary. This forum is not here for one user to verbally abuse another just because they are frustrated. Please remember you are communicating with other thunderbird users - not developers - who voluntarilly, in an unpaid capacity, offer their time to help others. The information they offer is not biased, they are not employees; they offer the best information and guidance they can provide purely to try and help others given the information available.

You seem to think it is slower - that's because it is new to you. However, in reality, it is not slower. There are fewer clicks required and some actions are now automatic and do not need to be done. As I volunteer help on the forum, I had to get to grips with this in order to help others. I went through various senarios, checked number of clicks and when I had eventually got my self up to speed and developed a new muscle memory - did not take that long - I discovered the time to create new mail had reduced and the reduction in clicks is a huge benefit in reducing repetative stress disorder. Designers do have to look at how they can improve workflow to reduce likelihood of RSD.

So yes, the developers have been listening to users. There were many issues that may not have effected yourself, but did effect the workflow of others. There were many complaints when it came to creating lists and other issues. The redesign was because of those users and it took years to put to together, it was not just a neat idea someone had last month.

Work and developement has not stopped and there are still additional functionalities being considered in this addressing area.

In the meantime, it will really help you to read the information, that people have taken the time to produce, for users who would prefer a refresher in how things work. I found this a huge help and got me up and running in no time. I'm not a young person, but it did not take long for me to realise that in this instance, the change really was for the better and I look forward to more improvements in the functionality. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/addressing-email

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As a heads up, there is work going on to create a functionality/ an option that allows the automatic display of Cc and Bcc, so it is in the pipeline.

In the meantime, as a workaround, I have an account that I use mainly use when Cc is required. In the Account Settings > Copies & Folders for that account, I have set up the Cc and Bcc with my email address. This means when I click on 'Write' there is an automatric Cc and Bcc available. Yes it has my email address in it, but I have the choice to remove them or to be honest, I don't waste time doing that, it is no bother to me that I get sent a copy. Any email that is sent to myself using my email address gets filtered into a suitable folder, so I can set a retention policy to empty periodically. So no worries.

Perhaps this info is of use.

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Toad-Hall said

As a heads up, there is work going on to create a functionality/ an option that allows the automatic display of Cc and Bcc, so it is in the pipeline.

Thanks for this. I hope this change happens. I'd be fine with that as an option. I think it should have been that way to begin with. Change the composition screen to this new layout but make always displaying the CC and BCC fields an option.

Another minor annoyance with this new composition windows is that adding CC and/or BCC doesn't automatically resize that portion of the window. You have to scroll the area up and down or use your mouse to resize it.

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Because of the recent Thunderbird user interface changes, I accidentally sent an email to a large group of people with their email addresses exposed to everyone on the email list. The new user interface makes it very easy to make that error. Please add a feature that allows email groups to be designated as "Bcc only". Better yet, make that the default setting. Also, please ask users for input before new releases are sent out. Thank you.

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bm19425 Any person can install and run a beta version, test and run to identify bugs, display issus etc and report on findings if a correction is required. I would not advise that this is suitable for everyone.

It is very easy for anyone to send: a mailing list that is visible to all if you do not enter it into a Bcc field. any email to the wrong person if they do not check to whom they are sending.

Unfortunately, user error cannot be totally covered and in your case it was user error and the changes in Thunderbird had nothing to do with it. You did not select a Bcc field and put the Mailing List into it. This method has not changed.

You can use the 'Contacts Sidebar' : This method automatically creates the Bcc field if not already open and adds the Mailing List to it.

  • select the address book
  • It will list contacts and mailing lists
  • Select/highlight mailing list name
  • Click on 'Add to Bcc' button

Note: Do not double click on mailing list name else it is auto added to the TO field.

TO is and will always be the general default setting for very obvious reasons. Even if sending a mailing list using the Bcc field, you should ideally add an email address - even if your own in a TO field - Why? Because spammers tend to only use the Bcc field and there are some Server Spam detection filters set up to detect those types of email.

If using a mailing list have you thought about 'Mail Merge' addon ? It allows you to personalise. It also uses an address book (not mailing list) or csv file. You create one email, tell Mail Merge to use X address book, tell it to 'Send Later' and then it creates X number of individuals in separate emails all using TO field. You can then double check all is ok by viewing emails stored in 'Outbox' and then if ok sent the lot in one go. No need to worry whether they are in a Bcc field because it no longer becomes an issue. https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/mail-merge/

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re :Another minor annoyance with this new composition windows is that adding CC and/or BCC doesn't automatically resize that portion of the window. You have to scroll the area up and down or use your mouse to resize it.

For clarity as there seems to be some misunderstanding. The composition windows has never automatically resized that portion of the window. This has always been the case. You choose the height of that section and when you enter more than the number of lines exposed, a scrollbar appears. This is regardless of whether they are auto included via Account Settings > Copies & Folders' or whether you choose to enter them manually.

The one difference I have found is that before you would always see a mention of the chosen field eg: TO, Cc, Bcc etc. In the new design, when you scroll, it is possible to lose sight of those fields because they scroll as well. So, it is possible to not know/forget/misunderstand whether you are looking at a TO, Cc or Bcc etc. I have raised this point in a bug requesting some enhancement to fix this problem, whether it is acted upon is another matter. If anyone feels this would be helpful to them, it may help to offer a comment to support the bug, otherwise it's just me all on my own trying to fight this corner. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1674648

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Toad-Hall said

re :Another minor annoyance with this new composition windows is that adding CC and/or BCC doesn't automatically resize that portion of the window. You have to scroll the area up and down or use your mouse to resize it. For clarity as there seems to be some misunderstanding. The composition windows has never automatically resized that portion of the window. This has always been the case. You choose the height of that section and when you enter more than the number of lines exposed, a scrollbar appears. This is regardless of whether they are auto included via Account Settings > Copies & Folders' or whether you choose to enter them manually.

Good point. I never had an instance where I had that portion of the window smaller than the number of fields I had displayed in it so I never would have had a need to scroll it.

Thanks for the clarification on that point.

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