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Double NAT causing intermitant problems browsing

Posted

Hi folks.

This is a bit of a doozy, and I accept: it is most likely of my making.

Initial investigations say it is because of "DOUBLE NAT", but something tells me otherwise.

Here is the "problem" as it presents itself.

I go to a web site: (eg) http://www.sydneycomedyfest.com.au/events

It loads. (But there is a catch to that. See later.) You see a menu bar with HOME SHOWS VENUES SHOWCASE TOUR FAQS ABOUT...... I click on VENUES and I am "blocked" from that site.

However! If I open a PRIVATE window and go to that site: it loads.


Quick clarification of the bigger picture: (This is day 3 on the time line) Day 1. I have ADSL internet and all is sweet. The afore mentioned sites work and load no problems. I'll call it a modem, but it has 4 ethernet ports too.

Day 2. I connect to a new system here called "the NBN". I am given a MODEM (one ethernet port only) and an ISP router which has a couple of nice functions/features. It has 4 ethernet ports and a bit more. I know this part isn't helping, but it is interesting to learn what is going on. For now I am plugging my OLD/ORIGINAL ADSL modem's WAN port into the new ISP router ethernet port. All SORT OF works. I was getting a fair bit of "I can't load this page" errors from FireFox OR I was redirected to the NEW router log in page. The next day, most of the problems had gone away. Pages loaded ok. WEIRD! But, as my luck has it: I spoke too soon and I found this problem.

Day 3. Hi. The problem is as stated. If I click on the VENUES, I get redirected to the NEW ROUTER log in page. Be it I open the link or "open in new tab" it. BUT! If I open the initial link in a PRIVATE window and click VENUES, it opens. (Or I copy the link and paste it in the private window.)

It seems like a FF caching problem. Sure, I kind of get it, and accept the problem as given. What I am wanting to understand is what is really going on.

Given the cache "stores data locally", if I go back to the site, it loads the cache rather than from the site. Which makes sense in one way but no another. 1 - cache has the pages. they have been visited before DAY 2. I go to the pages/URL, and the cached data is displayed. 2 - it is day 2. I go the the page/URL. The data is in the cache. Why is it I am now redirected to the new router log in page? that is counter intuitive to what the cache is there for. Then, the next physical day, those pages work.

Today: Day 3, I am trying to load another link which I have previously been to and it should be cached. Yet, when I go to it - in NORMAL MODE - it redirects me to the new router log in page. If I open it from a PRIVATE window, it works.

Someone - please?

If you have read this far: FF 66.0.3 64 bit. Ubuntu 18.04 LTS (Oh, that's already there.) See what the system guessed. It is correct.

Hi folks. This is a bit of a doozy, and I accept: it is most likely of my making. Initial investigations say it is because of "DOUBLE NAT", but something tells me otherwise. Here is the "problem" as it presents itself. I go to a web site: (eg) http://www.sydneycomedyfest.com.au/events It loads. (But there is a catch to that. See later.) You see a menu bar with HOME SHOWS VENUES SHOWCASE TOUR FAQS ABOUT...... I click on VENUES and I am "blocked" from that site. However! If I open a PRIVATE window and go to that site: it loads. Quick clarification of the bigger picture: (This is day 3 on the time line) Day 1. I have ADSL internet and all is sweet. The afore mentioned sites work and load no problems. I'll call it a modem, but it has 4 ethernet ports too. Day 2. I connect to a new system here called "the NBN". I am given a MODEM (one ethernet port only) and an ISP router which has a couple of nice functions/features. It has 4 ethernet ports and a bit more. I know this part isn't helping, but it is interesting to learn what is going on. For now I am plugging my OLD/ORIGINAL ADSL modem's WAN port into the new ISP router ethernet port. All SORT OF works. I was getting a fair bit of "I can't load this page" errors from FireFox OR I was redirected to the NEW router log in page. The next day, most of the problems had gone away. Pages loaded ok. WEIRD! But, as my luck has it: I spoke too soon and I found this problem. Day 3. Hi. The problem is as stated. If I click on the VENUES, I get redirected to the NEW ROUTER log in page. Be it I open the link or "open in new tab" it. BUT! If I open the initial link in a PRIVATE window and click VENUES, it opens. (Or I copy the link and paste it in the private window.) It seems like a FF caching problem. Sure, I kind of get it, and accept the problem as given. What I am wanting to understand is what is really going on. Given the cache "stores data locally", if I go back to the site, it loads the cache rather than from the site. Which makes sense in one way but no another. 1 - cache has the pages. they have been visited before DAY 2. I go to the pages/URL, and the cached data is displayed. 2 - it is day 2. I go the the page/URL. The data is in the cache. Why is it I am now redirected to the new router log in page? that is counter intuitive to what the cache is there for. Then, the next physical day, those pages work. Today: Day 3, I am trying to load another link which I have previously been to and it should be cached. Yet, when I go to it - in NORMAL MODE - it redirects me to the new router log in page. If I open it from a PRIVATE window, it works. Someone - please? If you have read this far: FF 66.0.3 64 bit. Ubuntu 18.04 LTS (Oh, that's already there.) See what the system guessed. It is correct.

Chosen solution

Ok, the solution as I understand it:

Overview: I have double NAT on my network now. Not originally. Pages which would load now don't load.

Solution: Delete all cookies and site data.

Alas this is a brutal answer because I don't understand WHY.

But after deleting the cookies/site data the pages started working as per normal.


Other things to note: If you go for the more manual method - rather than just pressing the DELETE ALL button - you may need to open the window with the cookie and site data to see the two buttons at the bottom.

Though there is no SAVE button, the two buttons are: DELETE SELECTED and DELETE ALL.

Rather than going through deleting all the cookies, you need to select them, then at the bottom press the DELETE SELECTED button.

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Additional System Details

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ABS blocker - in leu of ghostery. (Previous problem) Clear Flash Cookies FlagFox MooltiPass Video Download helper Simple tab renamer Save image to downloads

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  • Support URL: https://support.mozilla.org/1/firefox/66.0.3/Linux/en-US/

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GL_KHR_robust_buffer_access_behavior GL_KHR_robustness GL_KHR_texture_compression_astc_ldr GL_KHR_texture_compression_astc_sliced_3d GL_MESA_pack_invert GL_MESA_shader_integer_functions GL_MESA_texture_signed_rgba GL_NV_conditional_render GL_NV_depth_clamp GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil GL_NV_texture_barrier GL_OES_EGL_image GL_S3_s3tc
  • webgl2Extensions: EXT_color_buffer_float EXT_texture_compression_bptc EXT_texture_compression_rgtc EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic EXT_disjoint_timer_query OES_texture_float_linear WEBGL_compressed_texture_astc WEBGL_compressed_texture_etc WEBGL_compressed_texture_s3tc WEBGL_compressed_texture_s3tc_srgb WEBGL_debug_renderer_info WEBGL_debug_shaders WEBGL_lose_context
  • webgl2Renderer: Intel Open Source Technology Center -- Mesa DRI Intel(R) Iris Plus Graphics 640 (Kaby Lake GT3e)
  • webgl2Version: 4.5 (Core Profile) Mesa 18.2.8
  • webgl2WSIInfo: GLX 1.4 GLX_VENDOR(client): Mesa Project and SGI GLX_VENDOR(server): SGI Extensions: GLX_ARB_create_context GLX_ARB_create_context_profile GLX_ARB_create_context_robustness GLX_ARB_fbconfig_float GLX_ARB_framebuffer_sRGB GLX_ARB_get_proc_address GLX_ARB_multisample GLX_EXT_buffer_age GLX_EXT_create_context_es2_profile GLX_EXT_create_context_es_profile GLX_EXT_fbconfig_packed_float GLX_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB GLX_EXT_import_context GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap GLX_EXT_visual_info GLX_EXT_visual_rating GLX_INTEL_swap_event GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer GLX_MESA_query_renderer GLX_MESA_swap_control GLX_OML_swap_method GLX_OML_sync_control GLX_SGIS_multisample GLX_SGIX_fbconfig GLX_SGIX_pbuffer GLX_SGIX_visual_select_group GLX_SGI_make_current_read GLX_SGI_swap_control GLX_SGI_video_sync
  • windowLayerManagerRemote: True
  • windowLayerManagerType: Basic
  • windowUsingAdvancedLayers: False

Modified Preferences

Misc

  • User JS: No
  • Accessibility: No
cor-el
  • Top 10 Contributor
  • Moderator
17168 solutions 155185 answers

Did you check your extensions (some extensions may work differently in PB mode)? Also in PB mode, Content Blocking maybe more 'active' and blocking content.

If you use extensions ("3-bar" menu button or Tools -> Add-ons -> Extensions) that can block content (Adblock Plus, NoScript, Disconnect, Ghostery, Privacy Badger, uBlock Origin) always make sure such extensions do not block content.

Firefox shows the shield icon at the left end of the location/address bar in case Content Blocking is blocking content.

  • click the shield icon for more detail and possibly disable the protection

You can check the Web Console about what content is blocked


You can try these steps in case of issues with web pages:

You can reload web page(s) and bypass the cache to refresh possibly outdated or corrupted files.

  • hold down the Shift key and left-click the Reload button
  • press "Ctrl + F5" or press "Ctrl + Shift + R" (Windows,Linux)
  • press "Command + Shift + R" (Mac)

Clear the Cache and remove the Cookies from websites that cause problems via the "3-bar" Firefox menu button (Options/Preferences).

"Remove the Cookies" from websites that cause problems:

  • Options/Preferences -> Privacy & Security
    Cookies and Site Data -> Manage Data

"Clear the Cache":

  • Options/Preferences -> Privacy & Security
    Cookies and Site Data -> Clear Data -> Cached Web Content: Clear

Start Firefox in Safe Mode to check if one of the extensions ("3-bar" menu button or Tools -> Add-ons -> Extensions) or if hardware acceleration is is causing the problem.

  • switch to the DEFAULT theme: "3-bar" menu button or Tools -> Add-ons -> Themes
  • do NOT click the "Refresh Firefox" button on the Safe Mode start window
Did you check your extensions (some extensions may work differently in PB mode)? Also in PB mode, Content Blocking maybe more 'active' and blocking content. If you use extensions ("3-bar" menu button or Tools -> Add-ons -> Extensions) that can block content (Adblock Plus, NoScript, Disconnect, Ghostery, Privacy Badger, uBlock Origin) always make sure such extensions do not block content. *make sure your extensions and filters are updated to the latest version *https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-extensions-themes-to-fix-problems Firefox shows the shield icon at the left end of the location/address bar in case Content Blocking is blocking content. *click the shield icon for more detail and possibly disable the protection You can check the Web Console about what content is blocked *"3-bar" menu button or Tools -> Web Developer *https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/tracking-protection *https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/content-blocking ---- You can try these steps in case of issues with web pages: You can reload web page(s) and bypass the cache to refresh possibly outdated or corrupted files. *hold down the Shift key and left-click the Reload button *press "Ctrl + F5" or press "Ctrl + Shift + R" (Windows,Linux) *press "Command + Shift + R" (Mac) Clear the Cache and remove the Cookies from websites that cause problems via the "3-bar" Firefox menu button (Options/Preferences). "Remove the Cookies" from websites that cause problems: *Options/Preferences -> Privacy & Security<br>Cookies and Site Data -> Manage Data "Clear the Cache": *Options/Preferences -> Privacy & Security<br>Cookies and Site Data -> Clear Data -> Cached Web Content: Clear Start Firefox in <u>Safe Mode</u> to check if one of the extensions ("3-bar" menu button or Tools -> Add-ons -> Extensions) or if <u>hardware acceleration</u> is is causing the problem. *switch to the DEFAULT theme: "3-bar" menu button or Tools -> Add-ons -> Themes *do NOT click the "Refresh Firefox" button on the Safe Mode start window *https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode *https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-extensions-themes-to-fix-problems
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Question owner

Thanks.

Good, I can see the "add picture" button.

Here is a cut down view of what I see:

I am at their page. Don't ask me how I get there.

I click on the VENUES button and I get the second picture.

Yet.... If I click on any of the other tabs you can see (shows) they load.

I'm more kind of putting this out there because it seems weird how it is working. It seems to be blocking one part of the site but not others.

The icon isn't indicative of "content blocking", so that has me stumped.

Thanks. Good, I can see the "add picture" button. Here is a cut down view of what I see: I am at their page. Don't ask me how I get there. I click on the VENUES button and I get the second picture. Yet.... If I click on any of the other tabs you can see (shows) they load. I'm more kind of putting this out there because it seems weird how it is working. It seems to be blocking one part of the site but not others. The icon isn't indicative of "content blocking", so that has me stumped.

Modified by teeny_weeny

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jscher2000
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8425 solutions 68751 answers

What do you get if you log into your modem and try the page again? The reason I ask is there is an annoying feature that could be kicking in, which is that if a request returns a 404, the box wants to show you some paid search results to monetize the problem. You usually can disable that, and then we could rule that issue out.

And now, completely off the topic, but since I was visiting the site, this set from Aaron Chen in Melbourne earlier this year was really funny so you might try to catch one of his shows if your router will let you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJUN52oQNVg

What do you get if you log into your modem and try the page again? The reason I ask is there is an annoying feature that could be kicking in, which is that if a request returns a 404, the box wants to show you some paid search results to monetize the problem. You usually can disable that, and then we could rule that issue out. And now, completely off the topic, but since I was visiting the site, this set from Aaron Chen in Melbourne earlier this year was really funny so you might try to catch one of his shows if your router will let you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJUN52oQNVg
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Ok, something I have noticed happening:

(Sorry if it is off topic)

about:preferences security/privacy.

As mentioned cookies can be problematic.

While exploring the problem, I decided to delete some cookies.

Not all, just some. There were some from a year ago, so they promptly got deleted. I went on deleting most of them until recent dates.

In light of it being suggested I delete cookies, I thought I would do a 'buther's hook' at the cookies again.

All the ones I deleted from LAST YEAR seem to be back.

How is that possible?

I am wanting to understand how the cookies could be causing the problem rather than simply deleting them all and seeing what happens.

Further update: I sat down and deleted all the old cookies. I closed the window. I clicked on Manage data from the privacy window.

All the cookies I just painfully deleted are back.

BIG QUESTION: What is the point of opening the MANAGE COOKIES AND SITE DATA and deleting if it isn't deleted?

Ok, something I have noticed happening: (Sorry if it is off topic) about:preferences security/privacy. As mentioned cookies can be problematic. While exploring the problem, I decided to delete '''some''' cookies. Not all, just some. There were some from a year ago, so they promptly got deleted. I went on deleting most of them until recent dates. In light of it being suggested I delete cookies, I thought I would do a 'buther's hook' at the cookies again. All the ones I deleted from LAST YEAR seem to be back. How is that possible? I am wanting to understand how the cookies could be causing the problem rather than simply deleting them all and seeing what happens. Further update: I sat down and deleted all the old cookies. I closed the window. I clicked on Manage data from the privacy window. All the cookies I just painfully deleted are back. BIG QUESTION: What is the point of opening the MANAGE COOKIES AND SITE DATA and deleting if it isn't deleted?

Modified by teeny_weeny

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jscher2000
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8425 solutions 68751 answers

Helpful Reply

The Manage Data dialog has a "Save Changes" button at the bottom. Depending on your screen resolution, you may need to reduce zoom or stretch the dialog in order to see that button. If you Save Changes, those cookies should not return. Sometimes you may need to close and re-open the Options page if dialogs have obsolete data.

The Manage Data dialog has a "Save Changes" button at the bottom. Depending on your screen resolution, you may need to reduce zoom or stretch the dialog in order to see that button. If you Save Changes, those cookies should not return. Sometimes you may need to close and re-open the Options page if dialogs have obsolete data.
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Question owner

(Academic now I just deleted them all......)

Thanks.

I am running 1376 x 768 (?exact?) and when I open the "box" I see this (see attached).

(Image doesn't seem to be uploading.) (Ah, that was me. I deleted all the cookies, so I got logged out. Oops.)

Yes, STUPID ME for not expanding the window 'just that bit more' to see the SAVE button.

So what happens when you select an entry and press the <delete> button?

They aren't 'saved' until I do to the bottom and click the <save> button?


Things resolved but NOT understood: Because I didn't press the <SAVE> button all the deletes were done in vein.

Out of desperation, I deleted ALL of them.

Now the web pages are loading normally.

(Academic now I just deleted them all......) Thanks. I am running 1376 x 768 (?exact?) and when I open the "box" I see this (see attached). (Image doesn't seem to be uploading.) (Ah, that was me. I deleted all the cookies, so I got logged out. Oops.) Yes, STUPID ME for not expanding the window 'just that bit more' to see the SAVE button. So what happens when you select an entry and press the <delete> button? They aren't 'saved' until I do to the bottom and click the <save> button? Things resolved '''but NOT understood''': Because I didn't press the <SAVE> button all the deletes were done in vein. Out of desperation, I deleted ALL of them. Now the web pages are loading normally.

Modified by teeny_weeny

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Chosen Solution

Ok, the solution as I understand it:

Overview: I have double NAT on my network now. Not originally. Pages which would load now don't load.

Solution: Delete all cookies and site data.

Alas this is a brutal answer because I don't understand WHY.

But after deleting the cookies/site data the pages started working as per normal.


Other things to note: If you go for the more manual method - rather than just pressing the DELETE ALL button - you may need to open the window with the cookie and site data to see the two buttons at the bottom.

Though there is no SAVE button, the two buttons are: DELETE SELECTED and DELETE ALL.

Rather than going through deleting all the cookies, you need to select them, then at the bottom press the DELETE SELECTED button.

Ok, the solution as I understand it: Overview: I have double NAT on my network now. Not originally. Pages which would load now don't load. Solution: Delete all cookies and site data. Alas this is a brutal answer because I don't understand '''''WHY'''''. But after deleting the cookies/site data the pages started working as per normal. Other things to note: If you go for the more manual method - rather than just pressing the DELETE ALL button - you may need to open the window with the cookie and site data to see the two buttons at the bottom. Though there is no SAVE button, the two buttons are: DELETE SELECTED and DELETE ALL. Rather than going through deleting all the cookies, you need to select them, then at the bottom press the DELETE SELECTED button.

Modified by teeny_weeny

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Question owner

jscher2000 said

What do you get if you log into your modem and try the page again? The reason I ask is there is an annoying feature that could be kicking in, which is that if a request returns a 404, the box wants to show you some paid search results to monetize the problem. You usually can disable that, and then we could rule that issue out. And now, completely off the topic, but since I was visiting the site, this set from Aaron Chen in Melbourne earlier this year was really funny so you might try to catch one of his shows if your router will let you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJUN52oQNVg

Sorry for not replying sooner.

Tried it. Didn't work.

''jscher2000 [[#answer-1216949|said]]'' <blockquote> What do you get if you log into your modem and try the page again? The reason I ask is there is an annoying feature that could be kicking in, which is that if a request returns a 404, the box wants to show you some paid search results to monetize the problem. You usually can disable that, and then we could rule that issue out. And now, completely off the topic, but since I was visiting the site, this set from Aaron Chen in Melbourne earlier this year was really funny so you might try to catch one of his shows if your router will let you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJUN52oQNVg </blockquote> Sorry for not replying sooner. Tried it. Didn't work.
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cor-el
  • Top 10 Contributor
  • Moderator
17168 solutions 155185 answers

Does it make a difference whether you use the Firefox version from the Mozilla server or the version from the Ubuntu repositories?

Does this also happen in normal mode if you disable the (disk) cache as a test? The developer toolbox has a setting to disable the HTTP cache while the toolbox is open. See also browser.cache.disk.enable on the about:config page.

Does it make a difference whether you use the Firefox version from the Mozilla server or the version from the Ubuntu repositories? Does this also happen in normal mode if you disable the (disk) cache as a test? The developer toolbox has a setting to disable the HTTP cache while the toolbox is open. See also <b>browser.cache.disk.enable</b> on the <b>about:config</b> page.
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cor-el said

Does it make a difference whether you use the Firefox version from the Mozilla server or the version from the Ubuntu repositories? Does this also happen in normal mode if you disable the (disk) cache as a test? The developer toolbox has a setting to disable the HTTP cache while the toolbox is open. See also browser.cache.disk.enable on the about:config page.

1 - I am not sure. How can I tell?

2 - I can't say. It would have been nice to know how to do that for future reference.

As the problem is "resolved" it is difficult to say what is/was going on.

''cor-el [[#answer-1217115|said]]'' <blockquote> Does it make a difference whether you use the Firefox version from the Mozilla server or the version from the Ubuntu repositories? Does this also happen in normal mode if you disable the (disk) cache as a test? The developer toolbox has a setting to disable the HTTP cache while the toolbox is open. See also <b>browser.cache.disk.enable</b> on the <b>about:config</b> page. </blockquote> 1 - I am not sure. How can I tell? 2 - I can't say. It would have been nice to know how to do that for future reference. As the problem is "resolved" it is difficult to say what is/was going on.
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