You can see it as allowing "push notications" to notify clients of new mail arriving rather than the clients requiring to check for them occasionally.

From here:

"Push e-mail" means that when a message is delivered to the mailbox you want to get immediately notified of it. Thunderbird provides that if your IMAP server supports the optional IDLE command. The IDLE command eliminates the need for a e-mail client to poll for new mail - the mail server automatically notifies the e-mail client whenever there is new mail."

I’m not sure why they would be marked as read though, unless you did - I’d expect them to be not, unless already read by another client. Are you saying this only happens when the option above is selected?

I was trying to investigate why ALL of my Mail now arrives as already "Read" (& I DON'T get any notifications) & noticed this setting was "checked".

I haven't tried changing this option as I wasn't certain what effect it would have (& whether it could be destructive)!

I would also add that this appears to be a relatively recent change (within the last few months) & it is also affecting my monitoring of my Mail via a Smartphone (Android-based), which also receives ALL mail as being already "Read".

Hence I now NEVER get any notifications (either on PC or Phone), but have to continually keep checking for new "already-read" emails! However, if my PC is switched-off (that is, TB is NOT active), my Phone receives the Mails as "Unread" - hence my STRONG suspicion that it is TB that is automatically marking these as "Read" on the Server!

Regards, John-B

These notifications aren’t intended for the user, but to notify clients instead, after which they will retrieve new mail instantly.

Can you check to see whether the option is responsible by disabling it? I tested myself and all remain unread either when enabled or disabled. Or in other words: Thunderbird does not change anything for me with regard to the messages status on the server.

What exact Thunderbird version do you use? I can’t test with the current version (52.2.1), but I don’t see the issue in Daily so it could have been an issue that’s been resolved meanwhile, though I could not find related bugs. Of course you can uninstall Thunderbird and install e.g. 45.8.0 to see if that helps (or a Daily version), but I would save that as a last step. Start Thunderbird in Safe Mode to rule out any add-on and make sure there is no other software such as Outlook running on our PC (see this question).

You should be able to find out what client is causing this by sending a test message to yourself using webmail, then open Thunderbird (or another client on any device, including mobiles) one by one and see what happens to the webmail message’s status. As a test, disable fetching email upon launch in Thunderbird. If needed and everything fails, you can enable IMAP Logging, but I don’t think you would need to go that far.

Hi, Tonnes, many thanks for the advice!

I'll try out some of your ideas & revert back!

Regards, John-B

The most common cause of mail being downloaded as already read is the use of the email account on a phone or other device. I have seen some andriod mail apps that mark all mail that is downloaded to the phone marked as read in some instances.

Have now had the opportunity to check!!

The "Option", that I had queried, doesn't appear to have any "apparent" effect.

Have totally switched off EVERY other device that can receive Emails (other than my PC) & it STILL receives Emails as "read"!

Accordingly, I do believe that it is a problem/option, within my PC's Installation of Thunderbird, that is causing the problem!

Regards, John-B

I did not expect the option to be responsible - if supported by the server and client, the server just "tells" the client to fetch mail at that point, so it is probably unrelated to message statuses.

- As asked above, what version of Thunderbird do you use? - As asked above, what happened when starting Thunderbird in Safe Mode? Are you using any add-ons or other themes anyway? - Did you test as suggested and see the received webmail message’s status change as soon as you allowed Thunderbird to retrieve / synchronize email? This is the most important thing - only then you can be sure it is Thunderbird changing the message flag. - Again, are you willing to downgrade Thunderbird as a test in order to know if could be a bug in your version? (Personally I don’t think it is, as more reports should have come up.) You have been given steps to do so and could have done this meanwhile. Also, please try to answer helper questions to provide the requested info. - Additionally, who is the email provider? I cannot imagine this issue to appear with e.g. Gmail or Outlook, but perhaps it’s a rare provider and the issue may be server related or involve some incompatibility. After all, For IMAP, the "read" status should be included in the fetched message.

Another option than downgrading Thunderbird is to just create another profile, set up the affected account there, and see if the same thing happens. If it does, the issue may be version related so you can downgrade after that.

If a new profile does NOT suffer the issue, it may be best to continue using that profile and import the most important files (messages, settings. filters etc.) from the other profile there. Useful info about important files and folders can be found here. Both downgrading and setting up an additional profile should take a few minutes at most.

Needless to say perhaps, there is an "Automatically mark messages as read" option in the Options > Display panel > Advanced tab. You can play with it, i.e. disable it entirely, or see what happens if you change that from "Immediately on display" to some time-related setting below that. I don’t think the option can cause your issue to happen since it works for displayed messages, and I assume your issue is about undisplayed ones. It may however give you some insights.

Hi, Tonnes,

Version is 52.2.1 (32-bit) - latest version!

Starting in Safe-Mode "appears" to have corrected it, which I find confusing since I don't have many add-ons (certainly, don't have any "Themes" or similar):-

• Bullguard (virus & spam checker),
• "ImportExportTools"
• & "Lightning" (Thunderbird's Calendar facility)

All of which I've used for years, but this problems has only occurred within the last few months!

I will now experiment (enabling/disabling in turn) & let you know what happens!

Regards, John-B

ps:- Just to add that I'm reluctant to play around with changing Profiles (or uninstalling current version & installing an earlier version) as this has caused me to lose historical copies of emails, in the past! jb

Have re-enabled Bullguard & the problem immediately returns!!

Appears that I need to attempt to query this with Bullguard, now!!

If I get any response, I will keep you informed!!

Regards, John-B

Well well... :) It seems you are suffering this bug, reported for 52.1.1 and marked as wontfix, since it is a Bullguard issue.

Please feel free to follow up here if you hear back, and perhaps point them to the bug. As a workaround, you could just disable the spam filter, uninstall the add-on entirely, or disable an option / add an exception in Bullguard.

I have already sent off an email to Bullguard &, obviously, if I get anything useful I will report back!

I'm assuming that disabling Bullguard Spamfilter does NOT disable its Virus Checking of incoming Emails? If my assumption is correct (i.e. Anti-Virus is NOT affected by whether the Spamfilter is enabled or not), then I'm more than happy to keep the Filter disabled.

Obviously, if my above assumption is incorrect, I will be very cautious about disabling it!! (NB:- your useful Bug-Report doesn't make it clear!)

Regards, John-B

ps:- Apologies for the initial "Wrong-Question" as it clearly is NOT relevant!!

Whilst I've ALWAYS regarded Thunderbird as the best Email Client (I think my first ver was 0.9), I think some of the Help-Files (particularly when describing some of the Options) could be better! jb

Well, I don’t know Bullguard, but assume its spamfilter is just part of its capabilies/features so yes, you should be able to just disable that filter part without disabling its virus checking. Looking at this page and assuming the info is still correct, it should just be one switch. Note that there may be a setting called Email clients allowing you to unselect Thunderbird if you use more than one. However, it may be better to disable the option entirely and/or disable the plugin within Thunderbird.

No need for apologies, we have learned from it anyway. ;) I agree about Thunderbird, as well as its support / Help files. As you may know, Sumo (support.mozilla.org) is powered mainly by volunteers, which goes for Thunderbird especially. That means voluntary contributors will have to keep up with features and update support articles, but I’m sure everyone is doing what they can. I guess the "Allow immediate server notifications" option needs to be added to the Send and receive messages in Thunderbird article and will see what I can do.

Would you mind picking one of the answers above as a solution? Feel free to choose the one you think covers the issue best, even if it is your own.

Thanks for all of your help - much appreciated!

I think you are right about the "Spam-Filter", part of Bullguard, being a separate component from the Anti-Virus part - I was just being cautious!! ;-)

Best regards, John-B

Bullguard have just responded & advised that a recent update has resolved the problem!!

Have manually checked & can confirm that I have now downloaded an update. Unfortunately, because I'm in the middle of another activity, I'm unable to immediately re-start the PC to enable it to take effect until tomorrow (at the earliest).

Once I've re-started the PC (& checked that it works) I'll advise further!

One thing that is strange is that I've set my Bullguard to automatically check on updates every 2 hours - hence I don't understand why Bullguard hasn't already automatically advised myself of an update (obviously, another "Bullguard-Issue" & nothing to do with TB!)!!

Regards, John-B

Have now had the opportunity to restart the PC (to finalise Bullguard update).

Prior to re-enabling the Bullguard SpamFilter Add-On I arranged to have an Email sent & Thunderbird responded it the way expected (i.e. showed an Unread Message had been received) - I then re-enabled the SpamFilter &, again, arranged for an Email to be sent - unfortunately, this time, the incoming Email was IMMEDIATELY set to "Read" status.

Accordingly, I have to state that I do NOT believe that the issue has been fixed!

Hence I have sent a further Email to Bullguard!

Regards, John-B

The latest response, from Bullguard, is a FARCE!!

They agree that I'm on the latest update of Bullguard!!

But they now want me to TOTALLY uninstall BOTH Bullguard AND Thunderbird (including removing ALL Settings, etc)!

Each will require a full shutdown & re-start of the PC.

Followed by a Full Re-Install of Bullguard (with appropriate re-start of PC).

Then followed by a fresh/full install of Thunderbird (again with appropriate re-start of PC).

Strangely enough, they DON'T mention what I'm supposed to do to ensure that I've NOT lost any of my Historic Emails!

Not surprisingly, I've sent them back a very TERSE email response!

Regards, John-B

Today, totally independent of the fact that Bullguard have still NOT been able to resolve the issue, I have received a Marketing Update from them!!

Apparently the new version (2018 Edition of BullGuard Internet Security) will NO longer include the ability of checking for Spam in emails!!

In other words:- "can't solve the problem, let's remove it!"