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When using a VPN, Thunderbird tries to log in to Gmail accounts after I have already logged in, causing a Google error.

Posted

Hello, my VPN is Kaspersky Secure Connection (essentially Hotspot Shield). Because Google doesn't recognize my PC or my location when I try to log in to Gmail using Thunderbird, I have learned to log in to my Gmail accounts BEFORE I activate the VPN, then I have to send an email (I just forward one to one of my multiple Gmail accounts) so that Thunderbird will log in to the outgoing server. That works for a while, but eventually I get a text message and an email from Google saying someone has my password and they blocked the login. This is a huge PITA, because then I have to start all over to use whichever account Google thinks was violated and there have been a few times I have to log in to the Gmail account online rather than through Thunderbird, to prove to Google that everything is OK.

I have tried everything I can think of to get Google to stop this BS of locking me out of my own accounts just because I'm using a VPN, but of course there is no way that I'm aware of to contact an actual person at Google to resolve this issue. Does anyone at Mozilla know of a way to contact a person at Google?

Is Thunderbird trying to log in again after I have already logged in? If so why, and is there a way to keep Thunderbird logged in to my Gmail accounts (five of them) as long as I'm using the application in a single session (whatever period of time, minutes, or hours)?

Thanks for any suggestions, Harley

Hello, my VPN is Kaspersky Secure Connection (essentially Hotspot Shield). Because Google doesn't recognize my PC or my location when I try to log in to Gmail using Thunderbird, I have learned to log in to my Gmail accounts BEFORE I activate the VPN, then I have to send an email (I just forward one to one of my multiple Gmail accounts) so that Thunderbird will log in to the outgoing server. That works for a while, but eventually I get a text message and an email from Google saying someone has my password and they blocked the login. This is a huge PITA, because then I have to start all over to use whichever account Google thinks was violated and there have been a few times I have to log in to the Gmail account online rather than through Thunderbird, to prove to Google that everything is OK. I have tried everything I can think of to get Google to stop this BS of locking me out of my own accounts just because I'm using a VPN, but of course there is no way that I'm aware of to contact an actual person at Google to resolve this issue. Does anyone at Mozilla know of a way to contact a person at Google? Is Thunderbird trying to log in again after I have already logged in? If so why, and is there a way to keep Thunderbird logged in to my Gmail accounts (five of them) as long as I'm using the application in a single session (whatever period of time, minutes, or hours)? Thanks for any suggestions, Harley

Chosen solution

Thank you very much Matt! That explains a lot. I started using the VPN when our government (read Republicans and tRUMP) started to allow ISPs to sell our internet browsing information to whoever wanted to pay for it, in other words to those who want to sell us products and services. Since I don't have a clue who some of these businesses are, I thought it wise to simply cut them off from that information. It's none of their business what websites I visit. Further, as a freelance graphic designer, I communicate with people all over the world and I don't want to expose them to scrutiny (I'm using the VPN now and because it makes everything easier for me, I only use USA or Canadian servers).

You are correct about me using an IMAP connection. I'm a novice in many ways and I really don't remember why I chose that rather than POP, but here I am. It sounds like it doesn't matter which though, because in either case, apparently Google is the driver here and I'm stuck with their rules.

I find it interesting that, in my view, it appears you have the same approximate opinion of your government as I do of my government. More specifically regarding my situation, I'm completely, totally, and continually frustrated and embarrassed by the fact that our population has elected a proven liar, business cheat, bigoted, narcissistic, egocentric, ill behaved 8th grader to the office of president. I know, this is completely off the subject, but sometimes lately I just can't help expressing myself.

In any case, I very much appreciate your detailed response. I'll just deal with this the best way that I can. BTW, many of my clients are Aussies, so I'm happy to say cheers mate!

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I should have mentioned, I prefer to make contact using text rather than voice, since I have significant hearing loss. Is there a way to contact Google other than by phone? Thanks again.

I should have mentioned, I prefer to make contact using text rather than voice, since I have significant hearing loss. Is there a way to contact Google other than by phone? Thanks again.
Matt
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3182 solutions 21683 answers

newmozguy said

I should have mentioned, I prefer to make contact using text rather than voice, since I have significant hearing loss. Is there a way to contact Google other than by phone? Thanks again.

As support is only done here on the forum you are in luck then.

The unfortunate thing here is your issue is with your anti virus, not Thunderbird. It should be able to do everything it needs to do without having a VPN at all.

I have no idea exactly how the VPN works, but in essence they are a tunnel with you as the start point and the other end usually in another legal jurisdiction. They are primarily used by consumers to bypass Geo-blocking on media, not security. Businesses use them for security as the endpoint they set is inside their home network. SO the tunnel is truly private.

From the emails you receive you will be advised by Google where the endpoint is. Kaspersky apparently do not mention those details on their web site, or not where I can find them.

There are some problems with these so called secure VPN arrangements. *Sure they drop you in another country, but do the laws of that country protect you or hinder your position.

  • What are the benefits (other that Geo-blocking) of a VPN over a standard SSL/TLS secured connection.

SSL uses a chain of trust that encrypts all communications between your computer and the server so no one can read it. Well at least without expending serious effort and computing power to decrypt the data.

Given most folk are connecting to the internet to go to Facebook, Twitter or their email. I really do not know why the hiding of your IP address and therefore your location is anything more than an inconvenience.

Your ISP is allocated the IP addresses and the internet database of locations for those IP addresses is pretty good. Some sites can get as close as 300Km from my real location. Google do better than that as do Facebook, but my profile data they have access to makes where I live a very exact science, they just access the information.

Being in Australia we have a shiny new government snooping requirements that are seeing folk adopt VPN's to protect their privacy. Lots and lots of effort from those that are worried. But few realize that the information is limited to connected to the internet on and downloaded XXXX data. If the Australian thing is of interest to you. sample data can be see here http://www.telstra.com.au/content/dam/tcom/personal/privacy/pdf/sample-data-oct-2015.pdf

AS to your connection issues, Thunderbird connects to the providers servers as and when required, the servers also connect to Thunderbird in some instances.

For a POP mail account, Thunderbirds will reach out for your mail on startup and at predetermined intervals, usually 10-15 minutes. Each of these events is a discreet event, as discreet as it you opens your providers web page in a private browsing session (no cookies), closed the browser and opened it again in 10 minutes.

For IMAP mail accounts this is somewhat different as with Google they support the IMAP IDLE command, so the connection may remain after the first fetch of email. Google send a keep alive message every 5 minutes. If however something fails to process or blocks the keep alive (read anti virus) then the connection is dropped and the IMAP account will connect from Thunderbird again in the timed manner.

The arrangements of CalDav are even more complex. With Googles use of oAuth2.0 to authorize CalDav, the connection basically stays alive whilst ever the two devices can communicate. (server sends reminders new appointments etc.

My guess is your initial connection is using an IMAP account and Google sends the keep alive requests to your old IP address until Thunderbird needs to connect again for some reason and then you are no longer in the same country as you were 1 second ago. Little wonder their account hacking software goes nuts.

I suggest you seriously examine why you have this VPN product and what it is actually doing to increase your security. One thing has become ver obvious to me over the years. The Antivirus/ Internet security businesses play hard and fast with the truth and rely on telling half truths to frighten folk into actually using their products.

''newmozguy [[#answer-984749|said]]'' <blockquote> I should have mentioned, I prefer to make contact using text rather than voice, since I have significant hearing loss. Is there a way to contact Google other than by phone? Thanks again. </blockquote> As support is only done here on the forum you are in luck then. The unfortunate thing here is your issue is with your anti virus, not Thunderbird. It should be able to do everything it needs to do without having a VPN at all. I have no idea exactly how the VPN works, but in essence they are a tunnel with you as the start point and the other end usually in another legal jurisdiction. They are primarily used by consumers to bypass Geo-blocking on media, not security. Businesses use them for security as the endpoint they set is inside their home network. SO the tunnel is truly private. From the emails you receive you will be advised by Google where the endpoint is. Kaspersky apparently do not mention those details on their web site, or not where I can find them. There are some problems with these so called secure VPN arrangements. *Sure they drop you in another country, but do the laws of that country protect you or hinder your position. *What are the benefits (other that Geo-blocking) of a VPN over a standard SSL/TLS secured connection. SSL uses a chain of trust that encrypts all communications between your computer and the server so no one can read it. Well at least without expending serious effort and computing power to decrypt the data. Given most folk are connecting to the internet to go to Facebook, Twitter or their email. I really do not know why the hiding of your IP address and therefore your location is anything more than an inconvenience. Your ISP is allocated the IP addresses and the internet database of locations for those IP addresses is pretty good. Some sites can get as close as 300Km from my real location. Google do better than that as do Facebook, but my profile data they have access to makes where I live a very exact science, they just access the information. Being in Australia we have a shiny new government snooping requirements that are seeing folk adopt VPN's to protect their privacy. Lots and lots of effort from those that are worried. But few realize that the information is limited to connected to the internet on and downloaded XXXX data. If the Australian thing is of interest to you. sample data can be see here http://www.telstra.com.au/content/dam/tcom/personal/privacy/pdf/sample-data-oct-2015.pdf AS to your connection issues, Thunderbird connects to the providers servers as and when required, the servers also connect to Thunderbird in some instances. For a POP mail account, Thunderbirds will reach out for your mail on startup and at predetermined intervals, usually 10-15 minutes. Each of these events is a discreet event, as discreet as it you opens your providers web page in a private browsing session (no cookies), closed the browser and opened it again in 10 minutes. For IMAP mail accounts this is somewhat different as with Google they support the IMAP IDLE command, so the connection may remain after the first fetch of email. Google send a keep alive message every 5 minutes. If however something fails to process or blocks the keep alive (read anti virus) then the connection is dropped and the IMAP account will connect from Thunderbird again in the timed manner. The arrangements of CalDav are even more complex. With Googles use of oAuth2.0 to authorize CalDav, the connection basically stays alive whilst ever the two devices can communicate. (server sends reminders new appointments etc. My guess is your initial connection is using an IMAP account and Google sends the keep alive requests to your old IP address until Thunderbird needs to connect again for some reason and then you are no longer in the same country as you were 1 second ago. Little wonder their account hacking software goes nuts. I suggest you seriously examine why you have this VPN product and what it is actually doing to increase your security. One thing has become ver obvious to me over the years. The Antivirus/ Internet security businesses play hard and fast with the truth and rely on telling half truths to frighten folk into actually using their products.

Chosen Solution

Thank you very much Matt! That explains a lot. I started using the VPN when our government (read Republicans and tRUMP) started to allow ISPs to sell our internet browsing information to whoever wanted to pay for it, in other words to those who want to sell us products and services. Since I don't have a clue who some of these businesses are, I thought it wise to simply cut them off from that information. It's none of their business what websites I visit. Further, as a freelance graphic designer, I communicate with people all over the world and I don't want to expose them to scrutiny (I'm using the VPN now and because it makes everything easier for me, I only use USA or Canadian servers).

You are correct about me using an IMAP connection. I'm a novice in many ways and I really don't remember why I chose that rather than POP, but here I am. It sounds like it doesn't matter which though, because in either case, apparently Google is the driver here and I'm stuck with their rules.

I find it interesting that, in my view, it appears you have the same approximate opinion of your government as I do of my government. More specifically regarding my situation, I'm completely, totally, and continually frustrated and embarrassed by the fact that our population has elected a proven liar, business cheat, bigoted, narcissistic, egocentric, ill behaved 8th grader to the office of president. I know, this is completely off the subject, but sometimes lately I just can't help expressing myself.

In any case, I very much appreciate your detailed response. I'll just deal with this the best way that I can. BTW, many of my clients are Aussies, so I'm happy to say cheers mate!

Thank you very much Matt! That explains a lot. I started using the VPN when our government (read Republicans and tRUMP) started to allow ISPs to sell our internet browsing information to whoever wanted to pay for it, in other words to those who want to sell us products and services. Since I don't have a clue who some of these businesses are, I thought it wise to simply cut them off from that information. It's none of their business what websites I visit. Further, as a freelance graphic designer, I communicate with people all over the world and I don't want to expose them to scrutiny (I'm using the VPN now and because it makes everything easier for me, I only use USA or Canadian servers). You are correct about me using an IMAP connection. I'm a novice in many ways and I really don't remember why I chose that rather than POP, but here I am. It sounds like it doesn't matter which though, because in either case, apparently Google is the driver here and I'm stuck with their rules. I find it interesting that, in my view, it appears you have the same approximate opinion of your government as I do of my government. More specifically regarding my situation, I'm completely, totally, and continually frustrated and embarrassed by the fact that our population has elected a proven liar, business cheat, bigoted, narcissistic, egocentric, ill behaved 8th grader to the office of president. I know, this is completely off the subject, but sometimes lately I just can't help expressing myself. In any case, I very much appreciate your detailed response. I'll just deal with this the best way that I can. BTW, many of my clients are Aussies, so I'm happy to say cheers mate!