Is this about the same issue as you reported 5 years ago, and never responded to https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1160482 ?

Yes, it is the same problem. I did respond but I didn't get a usable reply last time. All I got was the suggestion, from Bruce A Johnson, that I open up my computer to him. Why would I do that to a complete stranger?

It would make far more sense if an expert from Thunderbird answered officially.

As I think Isaid last time, as far as I am aware, I have all my Inbox emails starred, which should mean that they are never deleted.

I hope you have a more sensible solution.

The best place to start is what Bruce mentioned https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1160482#answer-971583

As I said, why would I open up my computer to a complete stranger.

Thunderbird appears to be completely ducking the issue and not helping at all. Doesn't it have expert staff?

You make it very difficult to contact you as it is. Your email comes from a "no reply" box.

I never asked to be on your computer. The information at https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1160482#answer-971583 doesn't mention going on your computer.

DWe need to knw how your email is configured. That information is at Help > More Troubleshooting Information. If you can't provide that then there is nothing else to be done here.

I didn't say that you did. It was someone called Bruce A Johnson who did - someone I didn't know.

We are obviously going round in circles, so please can I start again. Please tell me what you need to know - in layman's language please!

Thank you.

1. Do Help > More Troubleshooting Information. 2. Click the "Copy text to clipboard" button. Do not check the box "Include account names" 3. paste (Ctrl-V) the text into your response here. 4. Delete everything below "Graphics"

Thanks for your reply.

I found my around what you said but when I tried to delete all below Graphics, it wouldn't delete, either prior to the clipboard or in my response.

There was also a message saying there were too many characters, over 10,000.

Paste the copied text into some text editor and trim what is below "Graphics", then take that and paste it in here.

I may have to send this in 2 or more pieces.

Diagnose issues Try clearing the startup cache Troubleshooting Information This page contains technical information that might be useful when you’re trying to solve a problem. If you are looking for answers to common questions about Thunderbird, check out our support web site. Include account names (possibly identifying information) Application Basics Name Thunderbird Version 102.3.0 Build ID 20220914215727 Distribution ID Update Folder C:\ProgramData\Mozilla-1de4eec8-1241-4177-a864-e594e8d1fb38\updates\8216C80C92C4E828 Update History Update Channel release User Agent Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.3.0 OS Windows_NT 10.0 19043 Application Binary C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Thunderbird\thunderbird.exe Profile Folder (Local drive) Build Configuration about:buildconfig Memory Use about:memory Performance about:performance Registered Service Workers about:serviceworkers Third-party Modules about:third-party Launcher Process Enabled Multiprocess Windows 0/0 Fission Windows 0/0 Enabled by default Remote Processes 2 Enterprise Policies Inactive Google Location Service Key Missing Google Safebrowsing Key Missing Mozilla Location Service Key Missing Safe Mode false Memory Size (RAM) 7.9 GB Disk Space Available 138 GB Profiles about:profiles Telemetry Data about:telemetry Mail and News Accounts ID Incoming server Outgoing servers Name Connection security Authentication method Name Connection security Authentication method Default? account1 (imap) mail.btinternet.com:993 SSL/TLS Normal password mail.btinternet.com:465 SSL/TLS Normal password true account2 (none) Local Folders None Normal password Calendar Settings Home Name Value Name Type storage Disabled Username URI Refresh Interval Read-only Suppress Alarms Cache Enabled iMIP Identity id1 iMIP Disabled iMIP Account Organiser Id Force Email Scheduling Popup Alarms Supported Alarms on Invitation Supported Max Alarms Per Event Attachment Supported Max Categories Privacy State Supported Priority Supported true Event Supported Task Supported Local Time Supported UTC/GMT Supported Auto-Scheduling Supported Chat Accounts ID Protocol Actions Crash Reports for the Last 3 Days Report ID Submitted

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In Thunderbird you have created a BT Imap account. Imap accounts can only display whatever is displayed on the server which you can also access via webmail account. This is not Thunderbird quirk, all imap accounts behave the same.

If you accessed the webmail account via a browser and deleted email, then they would get deleted from Thunderbird when it connects to server because they do not exist.

If you have another device like a laptop or phone which is accessing the server via imap and you delete emails using that other device then emails get deleted off server and same as above - they do not exist.

If you have another device accessing the server but this time it has been set up as a pop account. It is possible that pop mail account has not been set up to leave emails on the server, so as they get downloaded to pop account - they are also being deleted off the server.

It may also be possible you previously were using another email client on your computer and it is still operating in the background - I did come across a case where someone had emails disappearing only to find out that Outlook was still working in the background and it has a pop account.

Please check out what I had mentioned to see if this applies to your situation.

I use BT and they do not auto delete from Inbox unless you have a setting or are using various methods to access emails. Please confirm - do you have more than one device connecting to server eg: laptop, desktop, phone ? Are all devices using imap or are any accessing using pop ? If one is using pop is it set up to leave messages on server and never delete when you delete? If you delete an email via webmail or any other imap account accessed by any other device, it will delete off server and thus will disappear from all imap accounts ? Did you find this was occurring ? Have you ever used another email client? If yes, have you checked to see if it is still running in the background?

Hello,

Thank you for your replies. I am rather mystified as I thought that, having sent you the troubleshooting details, you would be able to analyse them and point out where I needed to change any settings. I do not know what is meant by imap or pop.

However, to try and answer your questions. I do not have a tablet or a laptop but I do have a mobile phone (not a smart phone) on which, somehow, my emails appear. I do not read them there as I rely on my desktop. I only switch the phone on if I am going out in case of emergency.

I never go to the BT site.

I used to use Outlook Express but, when Microsoft stopped supporting it, I switched to Thunderbird as it was almost the same, allowing me to have lots of sub-folders. I do not know how I would check if OE was still there.

I hope that helps.

It is now a fortnight since I replied to your questions. Do I assume that you cannot solve the problem? The same thing happened this afternoon. At 13.40 I sent an email and all my current emails were in the Inbox, but now at 14.35 several had disappeared. Luckily, as I had starred them, they were easily found in the Deleted box and I could retrieve them.

Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.

re :. I do not know what is meant by imap or pop.

The setting information you provided says the BT mail account set up in Thunderbird is set up as an imap mail account.

An Imap mail account will have the same folders as you see when you view the webmail account via the BT login using a browser.

All folders in an Imap mail account synchronise with the folders on the server and can only display what is on the server in those folders.

It means you can use several devices eg: laptop, phone, desktop etc and if all of them have mail accounts for same email address and set up as Imap you will see identical folders and emails both received and sent - it will be exactly the same if you access the webmail account directly. It also means if you delete any email via any of those imap accounts the email is set as deleted on the server and so will get deleted from all imap accounts automatically. Email will display in the Trash/Deleted folder in all imap accounts.

So in effect, emails are stored on the server. The imap account may have a downloaded copy or only a downloaded headers and emails are downloaded to a cache when selected to facilitate viewing, but as all folders synchronise with the server folder, the imap folders should not be regarded as a truely independent copy on your computer. But the copy is good enough to allow you to create a backup of your profile to a location elsewhere like an external harddrive or cloud facility or even another location on your computer.

A Pop account can only access the server Inbox and download emails into the pop account Inbox. If the pop account is set up to 'Leave messages on server' then the server will not automatically delete them when the pop download occurs. The folders in a pop account may not be the same as seen on server. There is no synchronisation of folders meaning the copy of downloaded emails in the pop account is an independent copy on your computer. It does mean if the server thinks an incoming email is junk and moves it into the server Junk/Spam folder then a pop account will not know about it because it can only access the server Inbox.

There are pros and cons for both types of mail account. Either way a backup especially prior to a major update in Thunderbird is recommended.

re : I do not know how I would check if OE was still there.

If you have OE still installed and it is auto working in the background then it may be listed in the 'Task Manager'. How to access Task Manager: Right click on the bottom Task Bar and select 'Task Manager' It opens in a new window. 'Processes' tab will list apps currently open and also any background services that operate. 'App History' will list the resource history since the date it mentions. The 'Startup' tab will list programs initially set up to start when comuter starts although some may be enabled and others disabled.

Do you see any mention of Outlook Express in any of these tabs?

How to locate Outlook Express program and uninstall it: In Windows search type: Programs select: 'Add or Remove Programs' Scroll down through list to see if OE is mentioned. If yes, select it and click on 'Uninstall'

Alternative: In search type: Control Panel Select 'Control Panel' If view is small or large icons then select 'Programs and Features' If view is 'Category' then under 'Programs' select 'Uninstall a Program' Look for OutLook Express, select it and click on 'Uninstall'

re : At 13.40 I sent an email and all my current emails were in the Inbox, but now at 14.35 several had disappeared.

If you switched on your phone between those times, then it is likely the phone is set up as pop and it has downloaded emails and popped them off server. In which case you need to check the server settings on phone, if the phone Mail setup is using pop then you need to access the account settings and set to 'Leave messages on server'.

AS your computer was probably running during this time - if OE did connect with server and the account in OE was a pop account then it may have downloaded emails and popped them off the server. You may discover some information in the Task Manager as mentioned above.

Apologies for such a tardy response.

I contacted BT and its only suggestions were to query my Thunderbird settings (all emails are starred which should prevent them being deleted), and to suggest that I always use Microsoft Edge as my browser. This I do, although I also have Firefox loaded. Would it help to delete Firefox? Would there be a conflict between the two?

I have set up a "work around" whereby I copy all new emails into a separate sub-folder, so it looks as though I'll have to live with it, although I don't see why I should.

Any further help would be welcome.

The browser you use has nothing to do with your situation and Firefox works very well when accessing BT webmail - I've used it for decades with no issues.

You will find BT helpers know very little when it comes to imap and pop. I'm assuming they did not mention that you may have other accounts downloading mail and popping the emails off the server.

If the emails are disappearing from an imap account in Thunderbird and you are not deleting them then they are being deleted via an alternative program.

I'm assuming you do not access webmail account and delete from there as you mention "I never go to the BT site. "

I asked you to check what was going on regarding the Outlook Express program and posted a load of information on how to see if it is running in the background and also how to remove it. Q: What did you discover in Task Manager ? Q: Have you removed Outlook Express from your computer? If no.... it's still installed Please uninstall it now and report back to tell us you have uninstalled it.

I've had other people discover they had Outlook accidentally running in the background and it was downloading emails to a pop account which in turn deleted emails off server which in turn caused the display in the Thunderbird IMAP account to lose emails.

Get Outlook Express removed first and see if this fixes the problem. If it resolves the deleting problem then you do not need to fix the phone.

re : I do have a mobile phone (not a smart phone) on which, somehow, my emails appear.

If that connection via phone is a pop connection then it might be set up to download and pop off the server. If that is the case then your phone is deleting emails off the server which in turn will remove emails from the imap account because they do not exist on server.

To fix: if the phone Mail setup is using pop then you need to access the account settings on phone and set to 'Leave messages on server'. This is important. I've mentioned this potential phone popping emails off server before but I've had no communication about that phone account which is downloading emails. It is a known very common problem when emails disappear off the server.

IMAP account in Thunderbird. Check settings:

• Menu icon > Account Settings
• Select 'Synchronisation & Storage'

The following should be selected:

• Select checkbox 'Keep messages in all folders for this account on this computer'
• Click on 'Advanced ' button
• All folders should be selected.
• click on Ok

Under 'Disk Space'

• Select 'Synchronise all messages locally regardless of age'
• Select 'Don't delete any messages'
• Select 'Always keep starred messages'

It would seem you only really use your Desktop computer to access emails. Have you considered using a POP account to access your emails? I use a POP account to access emails from BT. It is a much simpler setup and emails you download are stored on computer. There is no folder sychronisation between imap folders and server folders.

Thank you for your patience – I hope you haven’t lost too much hair! Below is a summary of what I’ve done, and I hope it will help you find a solution.

1. Task Manager – I didn’t know what Task Manager was so I did a “Search” and found nothing.

2. Outlook Express – following your earlier advice I had previously looked in Control Panel and found no reference to Outlook Express so assumed it wasn’t still loaded. I still couldn’t this time so did another “Search” and found two sub-folders in my Mail folder. One mentioned Outlook in Windows XP. I haven’t used XP since I had a new computer in 2017 when I went on to Windows 10, where I am now. I therefore deleted that folder.

There was/is another sub-folder – “Outlook Express emails”. I was reluctant to delete it as I am worried that I might lose all by sub-folders of correspondence, some going back to1999, when I used Works. However, on looking in the file I found that they are all “gibberish” and all dated the same and same time – 28 March 2017. I assume this is when the new computer was set up, transferring everything across from the old one. I therefore guess that I can delete it?

3. IMAP account on Thunderbird – I went through your instructions and found everything was as you said it should be, except that, under Synchronisation & Storage, “All Files” didn’t include SPAM or Delete. I have now selected those two.

4. Mobile phone – My phone is a Huawei Y3 which I only switch on when I go out so it is ready for any emergency. It works on Android (if that matters) and receives emails via its own system. I only ever use it as a phone and don’t do anything else on it.

However, a few years ago I experienced difficulties sending images via email on the phone and went to Carphone Warehouse (where I had bought it) to seek advice. The lad there fiddled around and told me he had fixed it. However, I then found that he hadn’t but had somehow set it up so that I also received emails via Gmail on Google. I now receive emails twice, but not as many via Gmail. I’ve noticed that I get some through the Huawei system and some via the Gmail system, and vice versa. I’ve also noticed that Gmail refers to IMAP.

I don’t read the emails on the phone and only delete them from the phone once I have read them on my desktop. None of them disappears from the desktop when I do so.