Localization discussions

[Rollback] L10n updates about rolling back & forward

  • 13 Replies
  • Last reply by rogeoliver573
  1. vesper
    vesper 1182 posts
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    Hey there, localizers!

    You may have seen some of this already in the Private Messages sent your way in the last few weeks.

    This thread is to keep you informed about our steps since the rollback to Kitsune and the progress towards the "rolling forward" to Lithium again. At the moment, the main focus is on the Statement of Work document we have presented to Lithium for review:

    Those documents have been based on your feedback and main pain points. It is a big part of our "rolling forward" requirements and we hope Lithium developers can deliver on these.

    Other resources:

    Hey there, localizers! You may have seen some of this already in the Private Messages sent your way in the last few weeks. This thread is to keep you informed about our steps since the rollback to Kitsune and the progress towards the "rolling forward" to Lithium again. At the moment, the main focus is on the Statement of Work document we have presented to Lithium for review: * [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W5nFjidZgmF1GIWumnhsnKzzrEybHrxloHZU_tX4stQ version 1] * [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yUot_QskGFXpHoFkisMb4xxe9T4wkr5QZIsnq8shVqE version 2] * [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zLYTSWgx04-vaymR8IPhQixtNq7J46-2RncUDesHaJI version 3 (sent out to Lithium)] Those documents have been based on your feedback and main pain points. It is a big part of our "rolling forward" requirements and we hope Lithium developers can deliver on these. Other resources: * [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&component=Localization&list_id=13585378&product=support.mozilla.org%20-%20Lithium&query_format=advanced&order=bug_status%2Cpriority%2Cassigned_to%2Cbug_id&tweak=1Bugzilla issue list] * [https://trello.com/b/l0ZlCE4Z/current-sprint current sprint issue list for all of SUMO] (includes L10n issues)
  2. vesper
    vesper 1182 posts
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    Updates after our initial chat with Lithium about the Statement of Work (v3):

    Use Case 1 (TKB “Edit Article” view shows both current English content (uneditable) and related current localized content)

    • Effort required: medium to high
    • Development can be started earliest at the end of June
    • None of the pieces is implementable straight away

    Use Case 2 (TKB article version changes use different highlighting method for added/removed content)

    • Effort required: medium to high
    • Depends on plugin availability and API options
    • Is a part of Use Case 1

    Use Case 3 (Custom localization completion percentage component on TKB category and article pages)

    • Effort required: low to medium
    • No dependencies or known blockers at this stage

    Use Case 4 (Adding new UI locales in Admin tools beyond the available packages)

    • Effort required: not planned at the moment
    • The process can be handled by Lithium on their side
    • Relatively low effort required to add new locales manually through service requests

    Use Case 5 (Custom component for easier user navigation between language versions of an article)

    • Effort required: medium
    • Depends on language packs available
    • Missing locales will continue being hidden for the time being

    Use Case 6 (Correct display of page content and UI for Right-To-Left locales (e.g. Arabic script))

    • Effort required: medium
    • Will be turned into an issue for the developers to solve (it's a known bug)
    • Will not be part of the final Statement of Work

    More updates as we get them.

    Updates after our initial chat with Lithium about the [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zLYTSWgx04-vaymR8IPhQixtNq7J46-2RncUDesHaJI Statement of Work (v3)]: '''Use Case 1 (TKB “Edit Article” view shows both current English content (uneditable) and related current localized content)''' *Effort required: medium to high *Development can be started earliest at the end of June *None of the pieces is implementable straight away '''Use Case 2 (TKB article version changes use different highlighting method for added/removed content)''' *Effort required: medium to high *Depends on plugin availability and API options *Is a part of Use Case 1 '''Use Case 3 (Custom localization completion percentage component on TKB category and article pages)''' *Effort required: low to medium *No dependencies or known blockers at this stage '''Use Case 4 (Adding new UI locales in Admin tools beyond the available packages)''' *Effort required: not planned at the moment *The process can be handled by Lithium on their side *Relatively low effort required to add new locales manually through service requests '''Use Case 5 (Custom component for easier user navigation between language versions of an article)''' *Effort required: medium *Depends on language packs available *Missing locales will continue being hidden for the time being '''Use Case 6 (Correct display of page content and UI for Right-To-Left locales (e.g. Arabic script))''' *Effort required: medium *Will be turned into an issue for the developers to solve (it's a known bug) *Will not be part of the final Statement of Work More updates as we get them.
  3. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    Possibly not what had been hoped for, but looking on the bright side at least we are taking action on the issues with soluti0ns being proposed. I suppose we are still in early stages of what could be a long project. Any clarification on 

    * Effort required: medium to high
* Development can be started earliest at the end of June
* None of the pieces is implementable straight away

    Does medium to high effort imply weeks months or years of work ?

    Earliest commencement end of June may not be that bad, if it is a couple of months work commencing in July it will be done Aug/Sept. But if it gets put off because of other priorities and is a long project it may not even get started until some TBA date with completion some time next year maybe.

    Use Case 5 (Custom component for easier user navigation between language versions of an article) Effort required: medium Depends on language packs available Missing locales will continue being hidden for the time being

    There is no indication of when this may be achieved, any ideas on likely timescales ?

    Is it worth thinking of ways to mitigate this problem?

    For instance it may be worth adding a template to KB articles, or making it known otherwise that KB articles are available in a wide range of articles, and list and link to some of the alternative locales/languages.

    Possibly not what had been hoped for, but looking on the bright side at least we are taking action on the issues with soluti0ns being proposed. I suppose we are still in early stages of what could be a long project. Any clarification on <pre> * Effort required: medium to high * Development can be started earliest at the end of June * None of the pieces is implementable straight away </pre> Does medium to high effort imply weeks months or years of work ? Earliest commencement end of June may not be that bad, if it is a couple of months work commencing in July it will be done Aug/Sept. But if it gets put off because of other priorities and is a long project it may not even get started until some TBA date with completion some time next year maybe. ------ <blockquote>Use Case 5 (Custom component for easier user navigation between language versions of an article) Effort required: medium Depends on language packs available Missing locales will continue being hidden for the time being </blockquote> There is no indication of when this may be achieved, any ideas on likely timescales ? Is it worth thinking of ways to mitigate this problem? For instance it may be worth adding a template to KB articles, or making it known otherwise that KB articles are available in a wide range of articles, and list and link to some of the alternative locales/languages.
  4. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    Presumably we need to make a decision on whether sorting out L10n issues blocks roll forward or not.

    I could see arguments being made by L10n people for staying rolled back until we sort out L10n issues. That could be generally advantageous because it also gives us longer to sort out any other Lithium related issues before using it again.

    Presumably we need to make a decision on whether sorting out L10n issues blocks roll forward or not. I could see arguments being made by L10n people for staying rolled back until we sort out L10n issues. That could be generally advantageous because it also gives us longer to sort out any other Lithium related issues before using it again.
  5. vesper
    vesper 1182 posts
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    Another update, related to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1340095

    SUMO strings have been disabled today in Pontoon, in the preparation of adding strings for improving the localization of Lithium's UI, if you find it lacking.

    Another update, related to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1340095 SUMO strings have been disabled today in Pontoon, in the preparation of adding strings for improving the localization of Lithium's UI, if you find it lacking.
  6. vesper
    vesper 1182 posts
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    John99 powiedział

    Any clarification on 
    * Effort required: medium to high
* Development can be started earliest at the end of June
* None of the pieces is implementable straight away

    Does medium to high effort imply weeks months or years of work ?

    Earliest commencement end of June may not be that bad, if it is a couple of months work commencing in July it will be done Aug/Sept. But if it gets put off because of other priorities and is a long project it may not even get started until some TBA date with completion some time next year maybe.

    That's all we heard from Lithium during the first chat. The next one should be taking place this week, hopefully on Thursday evening European time.

    Use Case 5 (Custom component for easier user navigation between language versions of an article) Effort required: medium Depends on language packs available Missing locales will continue being hidden for the time being

    There is no indication of when this may be achieved, any ideas on likely timescales ?

    Is it worth thinking of ways to mitigate this problem?

    For instance it may be worth adding a template to KB articles, or making it known otherwise that KB articles are available in a wide range of articles, and list and link to some of the alternative locales/languages.

    No time scale available yet. More hopefully known after Thursday's meeting. The currently available locales cover around 90% of the traffic to SUMO (historically), so we will be adding other locales depending on traffic. All other content will be available within the site for users who perform searches (inside or outside of SUMO).

    There will be a separate category/locale titled "Other languages" to choose from on the language selection page. That will be set up during the next sprint.

    Presumably we need to make a decision on whether sorting out L10n issues blocks roll forward or not. I could see arguments being made by L10n people for staying rolled back until we sort out L10n issues. That could be generally advantageous because it also gives us longer to sort out any other Lithium related issues before using it again.

    I am strongly for making sure that we do not roll back until our l10n SOW requests are (1) developed by Lithium (2) made available for testing on the "mirror site" (http://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/) (3) vetted by a considerable number of people from the community.

    I am not the only person making decisions on either side, though. There may be technical needs and/or limitations involved with using Kitsune longer than necessary. We will talk about this during Wednesday's Community meeting and Thursday's Platform meeting.

    Cheers, Michał

    ''John99 [[#post-71735|powiedział]]'' <blockquote> Any clarification on <pre>* Effort required: medium to high * Development can be started earliest at the end of June * None of the pieces is implementable straight away </pre> Does medium to high effort imply weeks months or years of work ? Earliest commencement end of June may not be that bad, if it is a couple of months work commencing in July it will be done Aug/Sept. But if it gets put off because of other priorities and is a long project it may not even get started until some TBA date with completion some time next year maybe. </blockquote> That's all we heard from Lithium during the first chat. The next one should be taking place this week, hopefully on Thursday evening European time. <blockquote> ------ <blockquote>Use Case 5 (Custom component for easier user navigation between language versions of an article) Effort required: medium Depends on language packs available Missing locales will continue being hidden for the time being </blockquote> There is no indication of when this may be achieved, any ideas on likely timescales ? Is it worth thinking of ways to mitigate this problem? For instance it may be worth adding a template to KB articles, or making it known otherwise that KB articles are available in a wide range of articles, and list and link to some of the alternative locales/languages. </blockquote> No time scale available yet. More hopefully known after Thursday's meeting. The currently available locales cover around 90% of the traffic to SUMO (historically), so we will be adding other locales depending on traffic. All other content will be available within the site for users who perform searches (inside or outside of SUMO). There will be a separate category/locale titled "Other languages" to choose from on the language selection page. That will be set up during the next sprint. <blockquote> Presumably we need to make a decision on whether sorting out L10n issues blocks roll forward or not. I could see arguments being made by L10n people for staying rolled back until we sort out L10n issues. That could be generally advantageous because it also gives us longer to sort out any other Lithium related issues before using it again. </blockquote> I am strongly for making sure that we do '''not''' roll back until our l10n SOW requests are (1) developed by Lithium (2) made available for testing on the "mirror site" (http://hwsfp35778.lithium.com/) (3) vetted by a considerable number of people from the community. I am not the only person making decisions on either side, though. There may be technical needs and/or limitations involved with using Kitsune longer than necessary. We will talk about this during Wednesday's Community meeting and Thursday's Platform meeting. Cheers, Michał
  7. vesper
    vesper 1182 posts
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    Hi everyone,

    More updates to share - and important ones, too - so please read this and take action.

    We have met with Lithium yesterday to start finalizing the Statement of Work document. This document includes localization features we want to see on Lithium before we roll back.

    There have been 4 Use Cases identified:

    1. TKB “Edit Article” view shows both current English content (uneditable) and related current localized content (editable). As part of this:
    • Lithium will modify the TKB edit page to display the published English article content for non-English articles which are mapped to English articles.

    For this, we want Lithium to copy as much as possible the design and functionality of the editor page in Kitsune.

    2. TKB article version changes use different highlighting method for added/removed content.
    • Lithium will enhance the component described in Use Case #1 to display a diff of the most two recent English article revisions for non-English articles which are mapped to English articles. Mozilla will provide access to their existing diff code to use as a starting point.

    As described, existing diff code from Kitsune will be used as a starting point for this.

    3. Custom localization completion percentage component on TKB category and article pages.
    • Lithium will design and build a component which, for each non-en-US locale, communicates:
      • Total number of en-US articles;
      • Total number of locale-specific articles;
      • Total number of locale-specific articles which have been marked as 'Needs l10n’.

    While we have an existing version of this in Kitsune, not all of the functionality can be copied or will be needed. Therefore, please out needs for that page into this document. In order to prioritize this accordingly within Lithium's schedules (and kickstart development as soon as possible), we need your input before the end of day Monday (29th of May).

    Please use the existing dashboard page as a starting point and think what you want to keep from them and what can be removed.

    4. Adding new UI locales in Admin tools beyond the available packages.
    • Lithium will enable the following locales:
      • Slovenian - sl
      • Lithuanian - lt
      • Serbian - sr
      • Farsi - fa
      • Estonian - et
      • Euskara - eu
    • This includes adding a top-level category, platform text translations, 'Switch Language' link and 'Other Languages' article select option for each locale. To expedite this process, Lithium will provide a full set of English-language text keys for Mozilla to translate.
    • Lithium's ability to fully support additional languages is constrained by native support within Java and Elasticsearch. Currently, Java does not support Euskara, and Elasticsearch does not support Slovenian, Lithuanian, Serbian, Farsi or Estonian. The application behavior and search results for these languages may not work as expected.

    Here, the technical challenge is connected with an external tool - Elasticsearch. Developers from both sides will look into making things work as much as possible - but the final list of locales for this may be affected.

    Why these locales? They are the next most popular by visitor numbers on the list, outside of the top 25.

    What about other locales? We will make it easier for users to find content in other locales (that are not listed on the locale selector page) and plan accordingly when requesting the addition of more locales in the future, based on traffic indicators and product needs.

    How will these locales be added to the UI? The strings will be available for localization via Pontoon.

    More updates as we have them to share.

    Thank you for your continuous help with SUMO!

    Have a nice weekend.

    Hi everyone, More updates to share - and important ones, too - so please read this and take action. We have met with Lithium yesterday to start finalizing the Statement of Work document. This document includes localization features we want to see on Lithium before we roll back. There have been 4 Use Cases identified: <blockquote> 1. TKB “Edit Article” view shows both current English content (uneditable) and related current localized content (editable). As part of this: * Lithium will modify the TKB edit page to display the published English article content for non-English articles which are mapped to English articles. </blockquote> For this, we want Lithium to copy as much as possible the design and functionality of the editor page in Kitsune. --------- <blockquote> 2. TKB article version changes use different highlighting method for added/removed content. * Lithium will enhance the component described in Use Case #1 to display a diff of the most two recent English article revisions for non-English articles which are mapped to English articles. Mozilla will provide access to their existing diff code to use as a starting point. </blockquote> As described, existing diff code from Kitsune will be used as a starting point for this. --------- <blockquote> 3. Custom localization completion percentage component on TKB category and article pages. *Lithium will design and build a component which, for each non-en-US locale, communicates: **Total number of en-US articles; **Total number of locale-specific articles; **Total number of locale-specific articles which have been marked as 'Needs l10n’. </blockquote> While we have an existing version of this in Kitsune, not all of the functionality can be copied or will be needed. '''[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WfKQBmeioqH0kNc_DT5hG_H2A7N8eIgGdRisTQTdhME/edit# Therefore, please out needs for that page into this document]'''. In order to prioritize this accordingly within Lithium's schedules (and kickstart development as soon as possible), we need your input before the end of day Monday (29th of May). Please use the existing dashboard page as a starting point and think what you want to keep from them and what can be removed. --------- <blockquote> 4. Adding new UI locales in Admin tools beyond the available packages. * Lithium will enable the following locales: ** Slovenian - sl ** Lithuanian - lt ** Serbian - sr ** Farsi - fa ** Estonian - et ** Euskara - eu * This includes adding a top-level category, platform text translations, 'Switch Language' link and 'Other Languages' article select option for each locale. To expedite this process, Lithium will provide a full set of English-language text keys for Mozilla to translate. *Lithium's ability to fully support additional languages is constrained by native support within Java and Elasticsearch. Currently, Java does not support Euskara, and Elasticsearch does not support Slovenian, Lithuanian, Serbian, Farsi or Estonian. The application behavior and search results for these languages may not work as expected. </blockquote> Here, the technical challenge is connected with an external tool - Elasticsearch. Developers from both sides will look into making things work as much as possible - but the final list of locales for this may be affected. Why these locales? They are the next most popular by visitor numbers on the list, outside of the top 25. What about other locales? We will make it easier for users to find content in other locales (that are not listed on the locale selector page) and plan accordingly when requesting the addition of more locales in the future, based on traffic indicators and product needs. How will these locales be added to the UI? The strings will be available for localization via Pontoon. --------- More updates as we have them to share. Thank you for your continuous help with SUMO! Have a nice weekend.
  8. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    Before axing features from the localisation page equivalent to https://support.mozilla.org/localization/ it may be worth remembering that there are open bugs to provide en-US KB features and dashboard.

    You may end up making double work, because of the need for; or the perceived need; for a totally separate en-US and locale-other dashboard.

    Would it not be better to have a standard dash bi=board for all locales including en-US with the en-US one having possibly additional featured regarding RFL or what has been translated.

    Your google doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WfKQBmeioqH0kNc_DT5hG_H2A7N8eIgGdRisTQTdhME/edit# contains:

    Example l10n page in your locale: https://support.mozilla.org/localization/ (if you see the English KB dashboard, use this direct link instead: https://support.mozilla.org/es/localization/) Based on the current Kitsune dashboard as a starting point, the l10n dashboard on Lithium: NEEDS TO HAVE: DOES NOT NEED TO HAVE:


    It may also be worth noting that the en-US has effectively a popularity rating, that is important for locales if they are considering L10n of a new article. If an article is suddenly popular in en-US it is likely it will become a high ranking L10n article once it is localised.

    Before axing features from the localisation page equivalent to https://support.mozilla.org/localization/ it may be worth remembering that there are open bugs to provide en-US KB features and dashboard. You may end up making double work, because of the need for; or the perceived need; for a totally '''separate''' en-US and locale-other dashboard. Would it not be better to have a standard dash bi=board for all locales including en-US with the en-US one having possibly additional featured regarding RFL or what has been translated. Your google doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WfKQBmeioqH0kNc_DT5hG_H2A7N8eIgGdRisTQTdhME/edit# contains: <blockquote>Example l10n page in your locale: https://support.mozilla.org/localization/ (if you see the English KB dashboard, use this direct link instead: https://support.mozilla.org/es/localization/) Based on the current Kitsune dashboard as a starting point, the l10n dashboard on Lithium: NEEDS TO HAVE: DOES NOT NEED TO HAVE: </blockquote> It may also be worth noting that the en-US has effectively a popularity rating, that is important for locales if they are considering L10n of a new article. If an article is suddenly popular in en-US it is likely it will become a high ranking L10n article once it is localised.
  9. vesper
    vesper 1182 posts
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    Hi John,

    As things stand, the current project is improving the experience for people localizing from English into other locales. The English dashboard is a separate entity we may need a separate project for if its display/options need to be different.

    I commented on the suggestions provided so far, thank you! I wish we had a few more people voicing their opinion, unless everyone is OK with the course we're taking with this.

    Hi John, As things stand, the current project is improving the experience for people localizing from English into other locales. The English dashboard is a separate entity we may need a separate project for if its display/options need to be different. I commented on the suggestions provided so far, thank you! I wish we had a few more people voicing their opinion, unless everyone is OK with the course we're taking with this.
  10. vesper
    vesper 1182 posts
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    We have reenabled string edition for Kitsune on Pontoon. You should be able to edit/update any strings that are in there and may need work in relation to the recent releases.

    We will pull the updated versions within the next few days into the site.

    Cheers!

    We have reenabled string edition for Kitsune on Pontoon. You should be able to edit/update any strings that are in there and may need work in relation to the recent releases. We will pull the updated versions within the next few days into the site. Cheers!
  11. Merike
    Merike 15 posts
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    Is the sumo-locale-leaders mailing list still used for communication?

    I had fallen way behind keeping up with forum threads and found out about both migration and rollback after they happened. Although I had heard that there will be a migration at some point in the future.

    I also found out shortly after reviewing some articles by a new contributor. I can think of several ways this could have ended rather badly in terms of their first contributions being lost either rolling forward or backward.

    While the forum is great to have for communication could important announcements still be sent to the mailing list as well? Mailing list is lower volume and easier to keep up with if you have very little time to spend on contributing. Now that rolling forward with potential dataloss is planned as I understand it notifying the list seems even more important..

    Is the sumo-locale-leaders mailing list still used for communication? I had fallen way behind keeping up with forum threads and found out about both migration and rollback after they happened. Although I had heard that there will be a migration at some point in the future. I also found out shortly after reviewing some articles by a new contributor. I can think of several ways this could have ended rather badly in terms of their first contributions being lost either rolling forward or backward. While the forum is great to have for communication could important announcements still be sent to the mailing list as well? Mailing list is lower volume and easier to keep up with if you have very little time to spend on contributing. Now that rolling forward with potential dataloss is planned as I understand it notifying the list seems even more important..
  12. vesper
    vesper 1182 posts
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    Merike said

    Is the sumo-locale-leaders mailing list still used for communication?

    Hi Merike,

    We haven't been using the mailing list for quite a while, since the bulk of the work (and issues we encountered) happened on or between platforms - so it made most sense to keep discussions on either of those platforms (for easier context) OR have an external, easily accessible place for them (for example, an open document).

    That said, we will have announcements during and/or around the All Hands that should probably be shared anywhere and everywhere with SUMO contributors present - so I may be using the mailing list for a final volley of messages ;-)

    ''Merike [[#post-71962|said]]'' <blockquote> Is the sumo-locale-leaders mailing list still used for communication? </blockquote> Hi Merike, We haven't been using the mailing list for quite a while, since the bulk of the work (and issues we encountered) happened on or between platforms - so it made most sense to keep discussions on either of those platforms (for easier context) OR have an external, easily accessible place for them (for example, an open document). That said, we will have announcements during and/or around the All Hands that should probably be shared anywhere and everywhere with SUMO contributors present - so I may be using the mailing list for a final volley of messages ;-)
  13. vesper
    vesper 1182 posts
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    Pontoon / Kitsune update:

    We are back on Pontoon with Kitsune strings:

    https://pontoon.mozilla.org/projects/sumo/

    You should be able to update strings (e.g. these ones for Focus), which will be synchronized with Kitsune next week.

    Get cracking, dear l10ns!

    Huge thanks to Giorgos, Francesco, and Matjaz for their expertise and tech support with this!

    Pontoon / Kitsune update: We are back on Pontoon with Kitsune strings: https://pontoon.mozilla.org/projects/sumo/ You should be able to update strings (e.g. [https://support.mozilla.org/de/products/focus-firefox/firefox-focus-android these ones for Focus]), which will be synchronized with Kitsune next week. Get cracking, dear l10ns! Huge thanks to [https://mozillians.org/u/giorgos/ Giorgos], [https://mozillians.org/u/flod/ Francesco], and [https://mozillians.org/u/mathjazz/ Matjaz] for their expertise and tech support with this!
  14. rogeoliver573
    rogeoliver573 1 post
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    não sei falar em inglês,tenho dificuldade com internet mais me esforço, não sei o que está acontecendo, morro perto de comunidade, não podemos usar internet de boa qualidade que eles cortam e oferece serviço deles, muito já usei, instalei um tempo um VPN do anti vírus pago depois, baixei uma do Japão eme deixaram usar gratuito, instalei algum programa para derrubar algum wifi que eu não conhecia, trabalho em vários órgão do estado, e federal sou terceirizado trabalho como líder de brigada e ganho email da instituição para acessar a rede porque comando as equipe de incêndio.

    não sei falar em inglês,tenho dificuldade com internet mais me esforço, não sei o que está acontecendo, morro perto de comunidade, não podemos usar internet de boa qualidade que eles cortam e oferece serviço deles, muito já usei, instalei um tempo um VPN do anti vírus pago depois, baixei uma do Japão eme deixaram usar gratuito, instalei algum programa para derrubar algum wifi que eu não conhecia, trabalho em vários órgão do estado, e federal sou terceirizado trabalho como líder de brigada e ganho email da instituição para acessar a rede porque comando as equipe de incêndio.