SUMO community discussions

Community call - November 2025

  • 28 Replies
  • Last reply by Kiki
  1. Kiki
    Kiki 1721 posts Mozilla Staff
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    Hi folks,

    We finally have a date for our November call (with a slightly changed schedule). This week, we're gonna talk all about localization. The Customer Experience team will join the call to answer all of your questions about localization, including our lead, Morry Jackson.

    Here's more detail about the call:

    First time joining the call? Check out this guide to learn more about how to participate.

    Can’t join live? No worries! You can post your questions in advance right here in this thread, and watch the recording later on AirMo or YouTube.

    Want to be added to the Google Calendar invite so you never miss a call? Just message me and I’ll get you set up.

    Looking forward to seeing you there!

    Hi folks, We finally have a date for our November call (with a slightly changed schedule). This week, we're gonna talk all about localization. The Customer Experience team will join the call to answer all of your questions about localization, including our lead, Morry Jackson. Here's more detail about the call: * '''Date and time:''' November 19, 2025 – 18:00 UTC (click [https://dateful.com/time-zone-converter?t=18:00&tz=UTC& here] to convert the schedule to your timezone) * '''Agenda:''' https://wiki.mozilla.org/Support/Weekly_Meetings/Agenda_2025-11-19 * '''Zoom room:''' https://mozilla.zoom.us/j/490084542 * '''AirMo link:''' https://mzl.la/sumo-2025-11-19 * '''YouTube link:''' https://youtube.com/live/hpzG5hnu90w?feature=share First time joining the call? Check out [/kb/how-participate-sumo-contributor-meetings this guide] to learn more about how to participate. Can’t join live? No worries! You can post your questions in advance right here in this thread, and watch the recording later on AirMo or YouTube. Want to be added to the Google Calendar invite so you never miss a call? Just [/messages/new?to=kelimutu message me] and I’ll get you set up. Looking forward to seeing you there!
  2. Paul
    Paul 1306 posts
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    Although I will not be far away, unfortunately I will not be able to get home in time for the call.

    I guess the obvious question is how did the Japan team situation get resolved? What are the lessons learned from this?

    Are we forging closer links with the main L10n teams?

    Are there any plans to rewrite the KB process to move it more in line with the RelMan timeline - giving SUMO more chance to produce and edit content in plenty of time and have localised content ready for Release? I am keen to help change this, but in the meantime the process is going very backwards fast leading to worse results for contributors and users.

    Although I will not be far away, unfortunately I will not be able to get home in time for the call. I guess the obvious question is how did the Japan team situation get resolved? What are the lessons learned from this? Are we forging closer links with the main L10n teams? Are there any plans to rewrite the KB process to move it more in line with the RelMan timeline - giving SUMO more chance to produce and edit content in plenty of time and have localised content ready for Release? I am keen to help change this, but in the meantime the process is going very backwards fast leading to worse results for contributors and users.
  3. Michele Rodaro
    Michele Rodaro 452 posts
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    I'm not sure I'll be able to participate again, though I realize the importance of doing so on this particular call. I'll try, but it depends on my work commitments. In case I can't attend, I agree with all the points raised by my friend Paul, particularly regarding any updates on the outcome of the situation with the Japanese community, which I believe to be an important community for Sumo, like ALL communities.

    I've already expressed my opinions on the choice to use SumoBot in other discussions here on the forum (as well as on GitHub and elsewhere). I can only reiterate my observations since the bot's launch.

    SumoBot's translations of new articles into Italian are quite accurate and faithful to the original, but... SumoBot's article updates are often too invasive (it often intervenes where it shouldn't), and there's the problem of interface entries being modified and reverting to English. The bot cannot and should not decide whether an integration I've made in Italian is valid or should be removed. The bot should simply localize the parts that have been modified in the original. The bot should not intervene in the interface entries. I can't waste time proofreading SumoBot contributions; it's a waste of time and serves no purpose.

    My opinion, unless Mozilla intends to do without volunteer localizers, is that the various communities should be able to decide whether or not to use machine translation. Or, use it only when faced with difficulties and a backlog of articles. Every language has its nuances; Italian, for example, is a minefield; a comma placed in a certain position can completely change the meaning of a sentence, and I don't think a bot can understand these things. One last thing for now: SumoBot is detrimental to the growth of volunteer translation communities. In the last few months, I finally managed to find two new localizers, but after spending a lot of time training them, they no longer seem interested in continuing because as soon as an en-US article is updated or written, SumoBot takes over a few seconds later. What do I do with the new localizers? The bot's proofreaders? I hope to live a long life, but I won't last forever. The Italian translations are 100% complete, as are the updates. If I leave, goodbye to Italian localization, since I'm the only one taking care of it... Ah... What's the problem? We have the Sumo Bot ;) With no intention of being controversial (those who know me know this). Let's try to solve this problem.

    I'm not sure I'll be able to participate again, though I realize the importance of doing so on this particular call. I'll try, but it depends on my work commitments. In case I can't attend, I agree with all the points raised by my friend Paul, particularly regarding any updates on the outcome of the situation with the Japanese community, which I believe to be an important community for Sumo, like ALL communities. I've already expressed my opinions on the choice to use SumoBot in other discussions here on the forum (as well as on GitHub and elsewhere). I can only reiterate my observations since the bot's launch. SumoBot's translations of new articles into Italian are quite accurate and faithful to the original, but... SumoBot's article updates are often too invasive (it often intervenes where it shouldn't), and there's the problem of interface entries being modified and reverting to English. The bot cannot and should not decide whether an integration I've made in Italian is valid or should be removed. The bot should simply localize the parts that have been modified in the original. The bot should not intervene in the interface entries. I can't waste time proofreading SumoBot contributions; it's a waste of time and serves no purpose. My opinion, unless Mozilla intends to do without volunteer localizers, is that the various communities should be able to decide whether or not to use machine translation. Or, use it only when faced with difficulties and a backlog of articles. Every language has its nuances; Italian, for example, is a minefield; a comma placed in a certain position can completely change the meaning of a sentence, and I don't think a bot can understand these things. One last thing for now: SumoBot is detrimental to the growth of volunteer translation communities. In the last few months, I finally managed to find two new localizers, but after spending a lot of time training them, they no longer seem interested in continuing because as soon as an en-US article is updated or written, SumoBot takes over a few seconds later. What do I do with the new localizers? The bot's proofreaders? I hope to live a long life, but I won't last forever. The Italian translations are 100% complete, as are the updates. If I leave, goodbye to Italian localization, since I'm the only one taking care of it... Ah... What's the problem? We have the Sumo Bot ;) With no intention of being controversial (those who know me know this). Let's try to solve this problem.
  4. Michele Rodaro
    Michele Rodaro 452 posts
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    Just to give an example of a recent update, just one of the bot's interventions in that article... I inserted a link to help less experienced Italian users understand what "tenant" means, and the bot deleted it.

    en-US edit Bot en

    Italian edit by Sumo Bot Bot invasion

    Bot invasion… ;)

    Just to give an example of a recent update, just one of the bot's interventions in that article... I inserted a link to help less experienced Italian users understand what "tenant" means, and the bot deleted it. en-US edit [[Image:Bot en]] Italian edit by Sumo Bot [[Image:Bot invasion]] Bot invasion… ;)
  5. Mark Heijl
    Mark Heijl 5 posts
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    I fully agree with Michele’s opinion that locales should be able to opt out of MT. As a translator, autotranslation would make me feel like a backup.

    I fully agree with Michele’s opinion that locales should be able to opt out of MT. As a translator, autotranslation would make me feel like a backup.
  6. Denys
    Denys 134 posts
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    Michele, I guess your example is more about additional content (and we're suggested to add it to the original article instead)

    Michele, I guess your example is more about additional content (and we're suggested to add it to the original article instead)
  7. Mark Heijl
    Mark Heijl 5 posts
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    Thanks for the explanation, but that would not take away that feeling. I understand why you are doing this, but a machine stepping in with every article update before we can look at it ourselves would be very demotivating, especially in an active locale.

    Thanks for the explanation, but that would not take away that feeling. I understand why you are doing this, but a machine stepping in with every article update before we can look at it ourselves would be very demotivating, especially in an active locale.
  8. Mark Heijl
    Mark Heijl 5 posts
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    Question from Fjoerfoks in the SUMO Matrix room: If an active locale doesn't want MT, can we request to turn the process off?

    Question from Fjoerfoks in the SUMO Matrix room: ''If an active locale doesn't want MT, can we request to turn the process off?''
  9. Fjoerfoks
    Fjoerfoks 13 posts
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    Can we request for minority languages to be added?

    Can we request for minority languages to be added?
  10. Abby
    Abby 37 posts Mozilla Staff
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    Michele, I would love to understand more about the types of additional content you are adding to the localized versions. Is this extra context only applicable to a single locale? Or would it benefit all locales?

    Michele, I would love to understand more about the types of additional content you are adding to the localized versions. Is this extra context only applicable to a single locale? Or would it benefit all locales?
  11. Michele Rodaro
    Michele Rodaro 452 posts
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    Denys ha detto

    Michele, I guess your example is more about additional content (and we're suggested to add it to the original article instead)

    Yes, Denys, but if I show you all the inappropriate changes SumoBot made, we'll be done in a week ;) SumoBot (but that's not its fault, because it does its job of checking and translating) can't even decide how I want to develop a sentence or concept in MY language. My Italian is excellent, is SumoBot's?

    Abby ha detto

    Michele, I would love to understand more about the types of additional content you are adding to the localized versions. Is this extra context only applicable to a single locale? Or would it benefit all locales?

    Sorry, Abby, I'm in a bit of a hurry… Usually in Italian versions, when there's a technical term or topic that can be better understood if the user is redirected to a more complete description, we've decided to use links to sites like Wikipedia or to Microsoft, Apple, etc. support, for example. I think it could be useful for other locales ​​as well. Some users want to get straight to the point and just read the steps to solve a problem, but there are also others who like to understand what the article is about beyond the steps. A simple link doesn't hurt anyone and is often very useful ;)

    ''Denys [[#post-89729|ha detto]]'' <blockquote> Michele, I guess your example is more about additional content (and we're suggested to add it to the original article instead) </blockquote> Yes, Denys, but if I show you all the inappropriate changes SumoBot made, we'll be done in a week ;) SumoBot (but that's not its fault, because it does its job of checking and translating) can't even decide how I want to develop a sentence or concept in MY language. My Italian is excellent, is SumoBot's? ''Abby [[#post-89733|ha detto]]'' <blockquote> Michele, I would love to understand more about the types of additional content you are adding to the localized versions. Is this extra context only applicable to a single locale? Or would it benefit all locales? </blockquote> Sorry, Abby, I'm in a bit of a hurry… Usually in Italian versions, when there's a technical term or topic that can be better understood if the user is redirected to a more complete description, we've decided to use links to sites like Wikipedia or to Microsoft, Apple, etc. support, for example. I think it could be useful for other locales ​​as well. Some users want to get straight to the point and just read the steps to solve a problem, but there are also others who like to understand what the article is about beyond the steps. A simple link doesn't hurt anyone and is often very useful ;)
  12. wxie
    wxie 63 posts
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    I could not attend the call, and I am happy SUMO can have this kind of open talk.

    If everything in KB is going to be MT, I am ok. We need at least ensure that the original (English) version is of high quality - I assume it will be machine-generated soon.

    I could not attend the call, and I am happy SUMO can have this kind of open talk. If everything in KB is going to be MT, I am ok. We need at least ensure that the original (English) version is of high quality - I assume it will be machine-generated soon.
  13. Paul
    Paul 1306 posts
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    I hope that we can make the en- KB process such that contributors feel welcome to contribute to it and that we can deliver content (both en- and localised) in a timely fashion.

    This does not need ML or any Kitsune development to get to this result.

    I hope that we can make the en- KB process such that contributors feel welcome to contribute to it and that we can deliver content (both en- and localised) in a timely fashion. This does not need ML or any Kitsune development to get to this result.
  14. Fjoerfoks
    Fjoerfoks 13 posts
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    I wish the MT would learn from the content delivered by real people, like the current localizers. Otherwise MT is going to make the same mistakes over and over again. And localizers will have to correct them over and over again, which is pretty demotivating/frustrating. The option to reject any MT translations is nice, but somehow the MT translation feels intrusive. But then again, I somehow understand Mozilla’s move, being able to deliver articles in way more languages than before. And maybe even more to come for e.g. minority languages. One point of feedback I already would like to make is that I think the 7 days to edit/reject/approve the article is 1 week short. And if Mozilla really needs to put a message online ASAP within 1-2 days, please still be my guest to overrule the 7-14 days period.

    I wish the MT would learn from the content delivered by real people, like the current localizers. Otherwise MT is going to make the same mistakes over and over again. And localizers will have to correct them over and over again, which is pretty demotivating/frustrating. The option to reject any MT translations is nice, but somehow the MT translation feels intrusive. But then again, I somehow understand Mozilla’s move, being able to deliver articles in way more languages than before. And maybe even more to come for e.g. minority languages. One point of feedback I already would like to make is that I think the 7 days to edit/reject/approve the article is 1 week short. And if Mozilla really needs to put a message online ASAP within 1-2 days, please still be my guest to overrule the 7-14 days period.
  15. Konstantina Papadea
    Konstantina Papadea 74 posts Mozilla Staff
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    Thanks everyone for giving feedback and asking questions, during and after the call. I want to emphasize we are listening and want to build with you together. I saw some very interesting suggestions/feature requests coming here or during the call, much appreciated. One thing we will open to ensure that we have captured everything is a form, where you can report those more efficiently. Discussions are great, but we can very easily loose your suggestions here. I will post about the form with the bigger announcement to the community soon.

    Thanks everyone for giving feedback and asking questions, during and after the call. I want to emphasize we are listening and want to build with you together. I saw some very interesting suggestions/feature requests coming here or during the call, much appreciated. One thing we will open to ensure that we have captured everything is a form, where you can report those more efficiently. Discussions are great, but we can very easily loose your suggestions here. I will post about the form with the bigger announcement to the community soon.

    Modified by Konstantina Papadea on

  16. Mad Maks
    Mad Maks 44 posts
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    Finally i had the change to view the recording. I can understand why there is no opt-out (but i don't agree), so is it possible to give the opportunity to locales with a high translation rate to delay the MT. Instead of translate immediately after a article is RFT and give a reviewer the change for 7 days to review/ reject it, give the local team the opportunity for 7 days to produce a translation and when that does not happen activate the MT. This way you give the localizers the change to do there thing without first have to go true a MT and you still have the translations if the localizer had no time to do it

    Finally i had the change to view the recording. I can understand why there is no opt-out (but i don't agree), so is it possible to give the opportunity to locales with a high translation rate to delay the MT. Instead of translate immediately after a article is RFT and give a reviewer the change for 7 days to review/ reject it, give the local team the opportunity for 7 days to produce a translation and when that does not happen activate the MT. This way you give the localizers the change to do there thing without first have to go true a MT and you still have the translations if the localizer had no time to do it
  17. Mad Maks
    Mad Maks 44 posts
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    https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-and-junk-spam-messages/compare?locale=en-US&to=314539&from=282040 has a en-US specific change. Not all locals will change this or have the naming already for years so the note is obsolete

    MT shall every time there is a edit to the document add this line even if a locale does not want it.

    https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/thunderbird-and-junk-spam-messages/compare?locale=en-US&to=314539&from=282040 has a en-US specific change. Not all locals will change this or have the naming already for years so the note is obsolete MT shall every time there is a edit to the document add this line even if a locale does not want it.
  18. Michele Rodaro
    Michele Rodaro 452 posts
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    I simply removed the note from MT's proposed Italian translation. I believe it's virtually impossible for MT to determine whether that note applies to all locales or is exclusive to Thunderbird's English interface. Before this, I recall the "Master Password" case and related articles that didn't apply to Italian users because we've always used "Password principale" (Primary Password)… but that's another story ;-) In this specific case, perhaps it would have been sufficient to include a sentence in the note indicating that references to "Junk" have been changed to "Spam" only in the English versions, and MT would have automatically translated it.

    I simply removed the note from MT's proposed Italian translation. I believe it's virtually impossible for MT to determine whether that note applies to all locales or is exclusive to Thunderbird's English interface. Before this, I recall the "Master Password" case and related articles that didn't apply to Italian users because we've always used "Password principale" (Primary Password)… but that's another story ;-) In this specific case, perhaps it would have been sufficient to include a sentence in the note indicating that references to "Junk" have been changed to "Spam" only in the English versions, and MT would have automatically translated it.
  19. Denys
    Denys 134 posts
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    We could add a special comment syntax for content that should not be localized

    We could add a special comment syntax for content that should not be localized
  20. Wayne Mery
    Wayne Mery 75 posts
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    > We could add a special comment syntax for content that should not be localized

    But how would the writer of the English even know to make the notation?

    BTW, I am the author of that note :)

    It was done because a) some users are questioning the change, and b) I don't have the time just now to change the entire article.

    > We could add a special comment syntax for content that should not be localized But how would the writer of the English even know to make the notation? BTW, I am the author of that note :) It was done because a) some users are questioning the change, and b) I don't have the time just now to change the entire article.
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