SUMO community discussions

Informative banner

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    It would be nice if users would be shown a banner, warning them about imminent changes in next updates.

    That way situations like these would be avoided : https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1177821

    You can't expect the average user to read (or even know about) release notes and other articles.

    It would be nice if users would be shown a banner, warning them about imminent changes in next updates. That way situations like these would be avoided : https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1177821 You can't expect the average user to read (or even know about) release notes and other articles.
  2. Hi Enigma, welcome to the Support Forums! I am excited to see your enthusiasm for the users. There are a couple of ways that users can keep up to date with the Firefox updates.

    In the user's update preferences, they can turn on automatic updates as well as click on About Firefox to find a link to the release notes.

    I would be happy to explore some of the motivations behind a banner. Many of the development and promotional efforts have been put towards the 57 update. It is one of the largest launches of the year.

    Hi Enigma, welcome to the Support Forums! I am excited to see your enthusiasm for the users. There are a couple of ways that users can keep up to date with the Firefox updates. In the user's update preferences, they can turn on automatic updates as well as click on About Firefox to find a link to the release notes. I would be happy to explore some of the motivations behind a banner. Many of the development and promotional efforts have been put towards the 57 update. It is one of the largest launches of the year.
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    guigs said

    There are a couple of ways that users can keep up to date with the Firefox updates. In the user's update preferences, they can turn on automatic updates as well as click on About Firefox to find a link to the release notes.

    Thank you for your reply, guigs  !

    However : The average user won't even know about any of this (like where to find 'About Firefox'). Knowing when an update is expected, won't warn / inform them about changes that will come with those updates. And it's those changes that we get so many complaints about ....... Way too often I see users being told things like : "You could have read that in this blog ..... " I bet many contributors haven't read every Mozilla blog or even know about them - we can't expect users to have read them. When you use a certain product, and that product undergoes changes - you'd want to know ahead of time.

    ''guigs [[#post-72550|said]]'' <blockquote> There are a couple of ways that users can keep up to date with the Firefox updates. In the user's update preferences, they can turn on automatic updates as well as click on About Firefox to find a link to the release notes. </blockquote> Thank you for your reply, guigs ! However : The average user won't even know about any of this (like where to find 'About Firefox'). Knowing when an update is expected, won't warn / inform them about changes that will come with those updates. And it's those changes that we get so many complaints about ....... Way too often I see users being told things like : "You could have read that in this blog ..... " I bet many contributors haven't read every Mozilla blog or even know about them - we can't expect users to have read them. When you use a certain product, and that product undergoes changes - you'd want to know ahead of time.

    Modified by Enigma on

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    Since the release of Firefox 57 users are posting things like :

    "Wish I'd known before ..."

    "Why did'nt Mozilla warn us ..... "

    Users are angry (euphemism) and saying "Goodbye Firefox".

    Maybe 'Enigma' had a point : a banner would have been nice.

    A banner, with a link to an article, explaining about imminent changes.

    Since the release of Firefox 57 users are posting things like : "Wish I'd known before ..." "Why did'nt Mozilla warn us ..... " Users are angry (euphemism) and saying "Goodbye Firefox". Maybe 'Enigma' had a point : a banner would have been nice. A banner, with a link to an article, explaining about imminent changes.

    Modified by Happy112 on

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    Just an example :   /questions/1188151

    The   OP   says :

    "It would have been helpful to have been notified of the change so I could have done something about saving my links in Speed Dial."'

    Just an example : &nbsp; [/questions/1188151] The &nbsp; OP &nbsp; says : ''"It would have been helpful to have been notified of the change so I could have done something about saving my links in Speed Dial."'
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    Informative banners aren't super useful, where is this banner supported to be? We do alot of things to inform users about what changed in a new update (release notes, blog posts, social media, news articles, etc.) but we can't inform everyone. Also remember, we want as many users as possible to update and to make updating as seamless and invisible as possible.

    Happy, remember, this is the support site for Firefox. Users aren't going to come here when they are happy with a new update, they only come here when there are problems. So working support, you may get the impression that there are only negative responses to an update. But we have hundreds of millions of users, and the numbers we see overall don't lie, they like the new Firefox 57 and we are gaining millions more users.

    Informative banners aren't super useful, where is this banner supported to be? We do alot of things to inform users about what changed in a new update (release notes, blog posts, social media, news articles, etc.) but we can't inform everyone. Also remember, we want as many users as possible to update and to make updating as seamless and invisible as possible. Happy, remember, this is the support site for Firefox. Users aren't going to come here when they are happy with a new update, they only come here when there are problems. So working support, you may get the impression that there are only negative responses to an update. But we have hundreds of millions of users, and the numbers we see overall don't lie, they like the new Firefox 57 and we are gaining millions more users.
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    Tyler Downer said

    Happy, remember, this is the support site for Firefox. Users aren't going to come here when they are happy with a new update, they only come here when there are problems. So working support, you may get the impression that there are only negative responses to an update. But we have hundreds of millions of users, and the numbers we see overall don't lie, they like the new Firefox 57 and we are gaining millions more users.

    You are, of course, right. But : People who come to the support forum and complain, represent so many others who have the same complaint(s), but remain silent. To illustrate what I mean :

    https://beyondphilosophy.com/the-value-of-complaints/

    ''Tyler Downer [[#post-72897|said]]'' <blockquote> Happy, remember, this is the support site for Firefox. Users aren't going to come here when they are happy with a new update, they only come here when there are problems. So working support, you may get the impression that there are only negative responses to an update. But we have hundreds of millions of users, and the numbers we see overall don't lie, they like the new Firefox 57 and we are gaining millions more users. </blockquote> You are, of course, right. But : People who come to the support forum and complain, represent so many others who have the same complaint(s), but remain silent. To illustrate what I mean : https://beyondphilosophy.com/the-value-of-complaints/
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    https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1193818

    A banner that warns / informs about imminent changes is a bad idea, right  ???

    Quoting the OP :

    "And Firefox please warn with such a big change! "

    Who cares .........

    https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1193818 A banner that warns / informs about imminent changes is a bad idea, right ??? Quoting the OP : '' "And Firefox please warn with such a big change! "'' Who cares .........
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    How do you propose we warn people about upcoming changes, without reducing uptake rates, and in addition to what we already do? We knew 57 would change the browser, which is why we had legacy tags for old add-ons and an onboarding tour for new and upgrading users. What practical things should we have done on top of that?

    How do you propose we warn people about upcoming changes, without reducing uptake rates, and in addition to what we already do? We knew 57 would change the browser, which is why we had legacy tags for old add-ons and an onboarding tour for new and upgrading users. What practical things should we have done on top of that?
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    Tyler Downer said

    How do you propose we warn people about upcoming changes, without reducing uptake rates, and in addition to what we already do? We knew 57 would change the browser, which is why we had legacy tags for old add-ons and an onboarding tour for new and upgrading users. What practical things should we have done on top of that?

    Like 'Enigma' suggested  : show a banner, warning users about imminent changes ........

    ''Tyler Downer [[#post-73046|said]]'' <blockquote> How do you propose we warn people about upcoming changes, without reducing uptake rates, and in addition to what we already do? We knew 57 would change the browser, which is why we had legacy tags for old add-ons and an onboarding tour for new and upgrading users. What practical things should we have done on top of that? </blockquote> Like 'Enigma' suggested : show a banner, warning users about imminent changes ........
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    Where should this banner be shown? And what changes should it tell about? And how will users see this banner (most users never come to SUMO)

    Where should this banner be shown? And what changes should it tell about? And how will users see this banner (most users never come to SUMO)
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    Tyler Downer said

    Where should this banner be shown? And what changes should it tell about? And how will users see this banner (most users never come to SUMO)

    On any page where they use Firefox, with of course a closing 'X' they can click after they've read the information. The banner should tell them about any imminent important change - unfortunately too late now for users who have lost certain data because add-ons they were using stopped working.

    Starting to show such banner when 'Enigma' started this thread might have stopped many users from leaving Firefox and maybe we wouldn't have gotten so many angry posts on the support forum ......

    ''Tyler Downer [[#post-73049|said]]'' <blockquote> Where should this banner be shown? And what changes should it tell about? And how will users see this banner (most users never come to SUMO) </blockquote> On any page where they use Firefox, with of course a closing 'X' they can click after they've read the information. The banner should tell them about any imminent important change - unfortunately too late now for users who have lost certain data because add-ons they were using stopped working. Starting to show such banner when 'Enigma' started this thread might have stopped many users from leaving Firefox and maybe we wouldn't have gotten so many angry posts on the support forum ......
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    How do you expect us to show a banner on every page where people use Firefox? And what should the banner say? And how can we know this banner won't reduce the uptake of new updates? Also, even the most effective messaging in Firefox only get's read by about 20% of the people who see it.

    I think it's interesting you say that many people have left Firefox, since the numbers show that we actually have many millions new users. and angry posts will happen, that's why it's important on SUMO to provide accurate, helpful answers.

    How do you expect us to show a banner on every page where people use Firefox? And what should the banner say? And how can we know this banner won't reduce the uptake of new updates? Also, even the most effective messaging in Firefox only get's read by about 20% of the people who see it. I think it's interesting you say that many people have left Firefox, since the numbers show that we actually have many millions new users. and angry posts will happen, that's why it's important on SUMO to provide accurate, helpful answers.
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    Tyler Downer said

    How do you expect us to show a banner on every page where people use Firefox? And what should the banner say?

    I trust that Mozilla developers will know the answer to that.

    I think it's interesting you say that many people have left Firefox, since the numbers show that we actually have many millions new users.

    I hope you're right and that those (angry) users we see saying 'Goodbye Firefox' on the support forum, aren't really leaving.

    I love Firefox, and I'm only trying to find ways to keep users happy and keep them using the best browser on the planet.

    ''Tyler Downer [[#post-73051|said]]'' <blockquote> How do you expect us to show a banner on every page where people use Firefox? And what should the banner say? </blockquote> I trust that Mozilla developers will know the answer to that. <blockquote> I think it's interesting you say that many people have left Firefox, since the numbers show that we actually have many millions new users. </blockquote> I hope you're right and that those (angry) users we see saying 'Goodbye Firefox' on the support forum, aren't really leaving. I love Firefox, and I'm only trying to find ways to keep users happy and keep them using the best browser on the planet.
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    I trust that Mozilla developers will know the answer to that.

    There is no answer, so that's why I was asking you if you had a better idea.


    There are users leaving Firefox, but at this point, more are coming than going.

    <blockquote> I trust that Mozilla developers will know the answer to that. </blockquote> There is no answer, so that's why I was asking you if you had a better idea. There are users leaving Firefox, but at this point, more are coming than going.
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    Tyler Downer said

    There is no answer, so that's why I was asking you if you had a better idea.

    Bummer  ! I was so hoping that it would be possible - sure wish I were a developer and have more (or rather : a little) knowledge about how this works.

    Wouldn't it be at least possible for those who use Firefox as their default browser  ? And/or for those who, every once in a while, use the Firefox menu, and a feature like bookmarks  ?

    There are users leaving Firefox, but at this point, more are coming than going.

    At least that's good news  ! Not only do I get angry, but also sad, every time I see a user say that he's leaving Firefox - and I always have in the back of my mind : for every user who posts on the support forum, there are maybe a thousand or more who keep silent, but are doing the same.

    ''Tyler Downer [[#post-73053|said]]'' <blockquote> There is no answer, so that's why I was asking you if you had a better idea. </blockquote> Bummer ! I was so hoping that it would be possible - sure wish I were a developer and have more (or rather : a little) knowledge about how this works. Wouldn't it be at least possible for those who use Firefox as their default browser ? And/or for those who, every once in a while, use the Firefox menu, and a feature like bookmarks ? <blockquote> There are users leaving Firefox, but at this point, more are coming than going. </blockquote> At least that's good news ! Not only do I get angry, but also sad, every time I see a user say that he's leaving Firefox - and I always have in the back of my mind : for every user who posts on the support forum, there are maybe a thousand or more who keep silent, but are doing the same.
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    Can't let it go ......

    Maybe there's a way to inform users about (major) imminent changes through the update system (what do you think, developers  ?)

    Can't let it go ...... Maybe there's a way to inform users about (major) imminent changes through the update system (what do you think, developers ?)
  18. It seems Heartbeat could be used to offer users information ("Are you ready for Firefox Quantum?"). We know some people are annoyed by and other find it suspicious when an "infobar" appears unexpectedly between the toolbar area and the content area, but should there ever be a "next time," it may help numerous users become aware of changes that they hadn't noticed because they: do not use about:home, never look at about:addons, and close tabs that appear after upgrades without reading them.

    It seems Heartbeat could be used to offer users information ("Are you ready for Firefox Quantum?"). We know some people are annoyed by and other find it suspicious when an "infobar" appears unexpectedly between the toolbar area and the content area, but should there ever be a "next time," it may help numerous users become aware of changes that they hadn't noticed because they: do not use about:home, never look at about:addons, and close tabs that appear after upgrades without reading them.
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    So, Heartbeat would not be effective for this sort of thing, for a few reasons. Since this still seems to be an idea, I'll actually go in-depth into why we don't do this:

    The Simple reason is, we don't want users to not update. Not updating is bad for users, bad for the web, and bad for Mozilla.

    Bad for Users: Staying on an out of date browser (Firefox or any other browser) does three things for users. One, it leaves them vulnerable to security holes (https://www.mozilla.org/security/known-vulnerabilities/firefox.html). Two, it leaves them on old technology. If a user isn't running a modern browser, and then goes to a website that is trying to use a web standard that wasn't implemented in that old version, the user won't be able to use that website (Remember IE6?). It also forces users to use slower browsers, especially as web tech evolves, a browser that was fast two years ago can't handle modern websites as quickly, so the browser actually slows down with age without updates.

    Bad for the Web: Security holes on a personal computer leave that computer open to infection by botnets, or other malicious software that can be used to attack the web. Users using old version of software is the root cause of 90% of security breaches and DDOS attacks today. It also places undue burden on web devs. If a developer has to support ancient browsers as well as modern ones, they have to maintain a much more complicated website and test suite than if they knew all users were on modern web browsers

    Bad for Mozilla: While we are very proud of our work over the last decade plus, we don't try to say that Firefox 3, which came out 10 years ago, is a pinnacle of modern browsers. Software evolves, and users who have bad experiences with Firefox just because it isn't up to date reflects poorly on Mozilla.


    That being said, we understand that massive updates are hard for users, which is why we try to keep them to a minimum. Firefox 29 was the last major redesign, and before that, Firefox 4. Actually, the switch to web extensions, while painful in the short term, will actually make things better for users in the long term, as they can update Firefox without worrying about their extensions breaking (The API's in WE are more stable than old style extensions). It is great to educate users, which is why we invest development resources on the onboarding tour (check it out for your self, install 56 in a fresh profile, then update it. The tour is pretty slick) but having a heartbeat message saying "Are you ready for Quantum" would do nothing but decrease the percentage of users who actually update. I'd rather a user stop using Firefox and go to Chrome than stay with an old version of Firefox and not update. It isn't good for anyone.

    Hopefully this clears it up.

    So, Heartbeat would not be effective for this sort of thing, for a few reasons. Since this still seems to be an idea, I'll actually go in-depth into why we don't do this: The Simple reason is, we don't want users to not update. Not updating is bad for users, bad for the web, and bad for Mozilla. '''Bad for Users''': Staying on an out of date browser (Firefox or any other browser) does three things for users. One, it leaves them vulnerable to security holes (https://www.mozilla.org/security/known-vulnerabilities/firefox.html). Two, it leaves them on old technology. If a user isn't running a modern browser, and then goes to a website that is trying to use a web standard that wasn't implemented in that old version, the user won't be able to use that website (Remember IE6?). It also forces users to use slower browsers, especially as web tech evolves, a browser that was fast two years ago can't handle modern websites as quickly, so the browser actually slows down with age without updates. '''Bad for the Web''': Security holes on a personal computer leave that computer open to infection by botnets, or other malicious software that can be used to attack the web. Users using old version of software is the root cause of 90% of security breaches and DDOS attacks today. It also places undue burden on web devs. If a developer has to support ancient browsers as well as modern ones, they have to maintain a much more complicated website and test suite than if they knew all users were on modern web browsers '''Bad for Mozilla''': While we are very proud of our work over the last decade plus, we don't try to say that Firefox 3, which came out 10 years ago, is a pinnacle of modern browsers. Software evolves, and users who have bad experiences with Firefox just because it isn't up to date reflects poorly on Mozilla. That being said, we understand that massive updates are hard for users, which is why we try to keep them to a minimum. Firefox 29 was the last major redesign, and before that, Firefox 4. Actually, the switch to web extensions, while painful in the short term, will actually make things better for users in the long term, as they can update Firefox without worrying about their extensions breaking (The API's in WE are more stable than old style extensions). It is great to educate users, which is why we invest development resources on the onboarding tour (check it out for your self, install 56 in a fresh profile, then update it. The tour is pretty slick) but having a heartbeat message saying "Are you ready for Quantum" would do nothing but decrease the percentage of users who actually update. I'd rather a user stop using Firefox and go to Chrome than stay with an old version of Firefox and not update. It isn't good for anyone. Hopefully this clears it up.
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    Tyler, you are absolutely, 100% right, but :

    This thread is about informing users when (major) changes are imminent - to keep them from not wanting to update anymore ...... To make sure they won't be unpleasantly surprised by updates.

    Tyler, you are absolutely, 100% right, but : This thread is about informing users when (major) changes are imminent - to keep them from not wanting to update anymore ...... To make sure they won't be unpleasantly surprised by updates.
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