SUMO community discussions

Some feedback from a newbie

  1. Hi

    I have been wanting to write this for some time, originally after I had made 100 contributions to the SUMO forum, but such is the way of things that I had blasted through that marker, and the 200 barrier before I realised that I really must get this done.

    Two things made me want to contribute to move from being a user to being a contributor to Mozilla. It was a combination of the community on Mozilla IRC, showing me how an active community helps people solve problems and this video (Mozilla Summit 2013 video ) that shows a dynamic global level of participation. These two things showed me that Mozilla is not a faceless, cold, brand name, but a vibrant community of great people that create and shape to make the web a better place.

    (On a more serious notes, does anyone know what the music is in that video? I have been trying to track it down but cannot find it anywhere..! Any help greatly appreciated.)

    In wanting to contribute I found that I felt very guilty that I do not know how to code. I really liked the websites that help steer people to the place where they are a best fit, in my case – SUMO, but I cannot help but think that serious effort needs to be put into getting people with the coding skills to help kill bugs. I guess one of the downsides to an open community is that people can see our faults, but this should serve as extra encouragement to reduce the bug list down. “Zarro Boogs” needs to be a mantra once again.

    It is impossible not to have noticed the big “flare ups” that have happened in the past year or so, and whilst I fully appreciate for those immediately impacted they are important issues, they do not impact me. Whilst it is a “non profit” (well, its “profit” is what it gives back to the web), sometimes Mozilla HQ does have to make corporate decisions at a level and using foresight that we do not have. What I do think is important to recognise is that people would not have strong opinions if they did not care so much about the projects and the software.

    What is really nice about SUMO is that I always feel a bit isolated from those issues. Our shared goal is helping people, our immediate problem is the query/KB article/l10n in front of us. I do not know how SUMO fits into the participation plan for Mozilla, but for a global group of people to work together so well should be seen as a model for other areas. Whilst there might be a drive to create geographic communities, I always think of myself as a member of the SUMO community first.

    A key part of this are SUMO Forum days. I am in a position at the moment to “work” almost a full day on one and have found them to be a) hard work and b) very good fun. Trying to answer lots of questions, learning new things and sense of community from having the #sumo IRC channel running in the background is really good. What would really help is if a few more Mac and Linux could join in, especially to help with some of the older questions. We are often too keen to look at new questions when there are older ones that have not been touched.

    Having written a KB article, I fully appreciate the effort that goes into not only getting the technical bits right, but also getting the style and language of the document correct. Whilst I may not be writing another article for a while, I fully appreciate the efforts that the team make writing and updating them.

    I also really appreciate the QMO training, something I am still working through. It is a challenge that makes you learn and appreciate more about SUMO and I recommend it to everyone to work through. Maybe new starters should be steered towards it if they wish to contribute actively to one of the SUMO work streams?

    I have heard whisperings through The Force that the digital badges that are awarded in SUMO may become or move to Open Badges. I think that this is a great idea. I would suggest that a separate badge should be award for completing the QMO training (because it is a education course and is a bit difficult to achieve) and also for some the criteria to be looked at. To get a badge for only answering 30 forum questions in a year seems a bit low and bit too easy to get a Open Badge.

    One issue that almost made me give up on contributing was the “double answer” issue. When you have spent time on an answer only to have someone else immediately give the same or a different answer crushes my morale and makes me feel very stupid. If I have given an answer that puts the users machine or data at risk – sure, go for it - but if not it leads to confusion and I have noticed there is less chance of the user marking an answer as correct. If I have got the answer wrong, lets see what additional feedback the user comes back with to further help us answer the question.

    I really like the fact that the SUMO meetings are so open, but it would be nice if the videos were hosted on Air Mozilla. It seems a bit strange for them to be hosted elsewhere, and it would raise the profile of SUMO if it was with the other meeting and presentation videos. Given that some of the agendas (on occasion) may be a bit empty, has any thought been given to moving them to once every two weeks?

    I like the new Community Hub concept, but I would suggest that a further column is needed to include a notional “success rate” (=solutions/answered). Doing lots of answers is great, but so is getting recognition from the users that you have answered a question. I also find that it serves as a form of self control to make sure that you are focused on getting the answer right first time.

    With regards to community building measures, I think that what does note help is the diversified nature of Mozilla. I remember when Fx 3 and 3.5 came out – there were wallpapers, and t-shirt design competitions and everything was bright and fun. It was a celebration of what had been achieved and where Mozilla was going next. That sense of fun is not so loud now, but could so easily come back. MDN, Webmaker, REMO, AMO and SUMO could all have their own t-shirt design competitions, with the winner going into the Mozilla Gear store. Similarly, wallpapers could be designed each year for people to download from the main Mozilla wallpaper site. These are fun, creative, activities that each community could get involved in.

    On the recognition front, I have seen this (FSA recognition programme ) that gives some idea of how other areas are doing things. Whilst it might not all be appropriate for SUMO, it might give a few ideas. I appreciate that that swag comes with a cost, but instead of sending out gear, how about a 50% discount code issued as a “reward” for a task or effort?

    Talking about the community, I would like to single out philip and Madasan for the help they have (and are) giving me as a “newbie”, guigs for the training material (which I will complete!) and Tyler Downer for a) his genius and b) his simple post in relation to a user with over 1000 tabs open, possibly the driest, funniest thing I have read for some time. I would also like to mention Michael Buluma, whose work on l10n will open up the SUMO KB to about 10 countries. I do not speak Kiswahili , but if he needs anything I will do my best to help – this kind of work is what Mozilla is all about.

    I think that when people heard I was going to write some feedback, there was naturally some worries that it would be all negative, but hopefully I have allayed those fears. SUMO is a wonderful place with great people that is the main point of contact between Mozilla and users. Let us keep doing what we do best, SUpporting MOzilla.

    Thank you for your time.

    Hi I have been wanting to write this for some time, originally after I had made 100 contributions to the SUMO forum, but such is the way of things that I had blasted through that marker, and the 200 barrier before I realised that I really must get this done. Two things made me want to contribute to move from being a user to being a contributor to Mozilla. It was a combination of the community on Mozilla IRC, showing me how an active community helps people solve problems and this video ([https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/?utm_source=about-home&utm_medium=Referral Mozilla Summit 2013 video] ) that shows a dynamic global level of participation. These two things showed me that Mozilla is not a faceless, cold, brand name, but a vibrant community of great people that create and shape to make the web a better place. (On a more serious notes, does anyone know what the music is in that video? I have been trying to track it down but cannot find it anywhere..! Any help greatly appreciated.) In wanting to contribute I found that I felt very guilty that I do not know how to code. I really liked the websites that help steer people to the place where they are a best fit, in my case – SUMO, but I cannot help but think that serious effort needs to be put into getting people with the coding skills to help kill bugs. I guess one of the downsides to an open community is that people can see our faults, but this should serve as extra encouragement to reduce the bug list down. “Zarro Boogs” needs to be a mantra once again. It is impossible not to have noticed the big “flare ups” that have happened in the past year or so, and whilst I fully appreciate for those immediately impacted they are important issues, they do not impact me. Whilst it is a “non profit” (well, its “profit” is what it gives back to the web), sometimes Mozilla HQ does have to make corporate decisions at a level and using foresight that we do not have. What I do think is important to recognise is that people would not have strong opinions if they did not care so much about the projects and the software. What is really nice about SUMO is that I always feel a bit isolated from those issues. Our shared goal is helping people, our immediate problem is the query/KB article/l10n in front of us. I do not know how SUMO fits into the participation plan for Mozilla, but for a global group of people to work together so well should be seen as a model for other areas. Whilst there might be a drive to create geographic communities, I always think of myself as a member of the SUMO community first. A key part of this are SUMO Forum days. I am in a position at the moment to “work” almost a full day on one and have found them to be a) hard work and b) very good fun. Trying to answer lots of questions, learning new things and sense of community from having the #sumo IRC channel running in the background is really good. What would really help is if a few more Mac and Linux could join in, especially to help with some of the older questions. We are often too keen to look at new questions when there are older ones that have not been touched. Having written a KB article, I fully appreciate the effort that goes into not only getting the technical bits right, but also getting the style and language of the document correct. Whilst I may not be writing another article for a while, I fully appreciate the efforts that the team make writing and updating them. I also really appreciate the QMO training, something I am still working through. It is a challenge that makes you learn and appreciate more about SUMO and I recommend it to everyone to work through. Maybe new starters should be steered towards it if they wish to contribute actively to one of the SUMO work streams? I have heard whisperings through The Force that the digital badges that are awarded in SUMO may become or move to Open Badges. I think that this is a great idea. I would suggest that a separate badge should be award for completing the QMO training (because it is a education course and is a bit difficult to achieve) and also for some the criteria to be looked at. To get a badge for only answering 30 forum questions in a year seems a bit low and bit too easy to get a Open Badge. One issue that almost made me give up on contributing was the “double answer” issue. When you have spent time on an answer only to have someone else immediately give the same or a different answer crushes my morale and makes me feel very stupid. If I have given an answer that puts the users machine or data at risk – sure, go for it - but if not it leads to confusion and I have noticed there is less chance of the user marking an answer as correct. If I have got the answer wrong, lets see what additional feedback the user comes back with to further help us answer the question. I really like the fact that the SUMO meetings are so open, but it would be nice if the videos were hosted on Air Mozilla. It seems a bit strange for them to be hosted elsewhere, and it would raise the profile of SUMO if it was with the other meeting and presentation videos. Given that some of the agendas (on occasion) may be a bit empty, has any thought been given to moving them to once every two weeks? I like the new Community Hub concept, but I would suggest that a further column is needed to include a notional “success rate” (=solutions/answered). Doing lots of answers is great, but so is getting recognition from the users that you have answered a question. I also find that it serves as a form of self control to make sure that you are focused on getting the answer right first time. With regards to community building measures, I think that what does note help is the diversified nature of Mozilla. I remember when Fx 3 and 3.5 came out – there were wallpapers, and t-shirt design competitions and everything was bright and fun. It was a celebration of what had been achieved and where Mozilla was going next. That sense of fun is not so loud now, but could so easily come back. MDN, Webmaker, REMO, AMO and SUMO could all have their own t-shirt design competitions, with the winner going into the Mozilla Gear store. Similarly, wallpapers could be designed each year for people to download from the main Mozilla wallpaper site. These are fun, creative, activities that each community could get involved in. On the recognition front, I have seen this ([https://wiki.mozilla.org/StudentAmbassadors/Recognition FSA recognition programme] ) that gives some idea of how other areas are doing things. Whilst it might not all be appropriate for SUMO, it might give a few ideas. I appreciate that that swag comes with a cost, but instead of sending out gear, how about a 50% discount code issued as a “reward” for a task or effort? Talking about the community, I would like to single out philip and Madasan for the help they have (and are) giving me as a “newbie”, guigs for the training material (which I will complete!) and Tyler Downer for a) his genius and b) his simple post in relation to a user with over 1000 tabs open, possibly the driest, funniest thing I have read for some time. I would also like to mention Michael Buluma, whose work on l10n will open up the SUMO KB to about 10 countries. I do not speak Kiswahili , but if he needs anything I will do my best to help – this kind of work is what Mozilla is all about. I think that when people heard I was going to write some feedback, there was naturally some worries that it would be all negative, but hopefully I have allayed those fears. SUMO is a wonderful place with great people that is the main point of contact between Mozilla and users. Let us keep doing what we do best, SUpporting MOzilla. Thank you for your time.
  2. more options

    Good feedback! Makes me stop and think about my early days contributing towards Firefox support over at MozillaZine fora in 2003, many years before SuMo even existed; and then thinking about the beginning days of SuMo in 2007-2008.

    "One issue that almost made me give up on contributing was the “double answer” issue. " IMO, it is a case of 'Too many cooks spoiling the broth.' The double-answers aren't that bad - the real problem is when 3 to 5 answers are provided before the "Owner" responds to the first answer. Typically the last answer given is what the "Owner" responds to from the email they most recently received 'notification' and the previous answers all too often are ignored. As far as I am concerned allowing an "Owner" to respond to given answers from an email notification is wrong - it is rude to the contributors who volunteer their time here.

    Good feedback! Makes me stop and think about my early days contributing towards Firefox support over at MozillaZine fora in 2003, many years before SuMo even existed; and then thinking about the beginning days of SuMo in 2007-2008. '''"One issue that almost made me give up on contributing was the “double answer” issue. "''' IMO, it is a case of 'Too many cooks spoiling the broth.' The double-answers aren't that bad - the real problem is when 3 to 5 answers are provided before the "Owner" responds to the first answer. Typically the last answer given is what the "Owner" responds to from the email they most recently received 'notification' and the previous answers all too often are ignored. As far as I am concerned allowing an "Owner" to respond to given answers from an email notification is wrong - it is rude to the contributors who volunteer their time here.
  3. This is great feedback Seburo, thanks for sharing! I would love to hear what other people think as well (I'm composing my reply but it make take a while as it is loooong)

    This is great feedback Seburo, thanks for sharing! I would love to hear what other people think as well (I'm composing my reply but it make take a while as it is loooong)
  4. BTW I cannot stress enough to say how happy I am to see people like you, Seburo, who are fairly new to the community to step in and give feedback. I know it can be intimidating in the beginning when you don't know everybody that well so kudos for the courage!

    BTW I cannot stress enough to say how happy I am to see people like you, Seburo, who are fairly new to the community to step in and give feedback. I know it can be intimidating in the beginning when you don't know everybody that well so kudos for the courage!
  5. i can understand that double answers may be perceived as quite unwelcoming or intimidating by new contributors - and confusing to users as well in some instances... maybe we should have an informal policy to generally avoid it, unless it provides a clear benefit to the user (for example if it offers totally different solution to the reply that's already there) but if you get the feeling that the original helper is already on the right way then hold off until a user replies.

    i can understand that double answers may be perceived as quite unwelcoming or intimidating by new contributors - and confusing to users as well in some instances... maybe we should have an informal policy to generally avoid it, unless it provides a clear benefit to the user (for example if it offers totally different solution to the reply that's already there) but if you get the feeling that the original helper is already on the right way then hold off until a user replies.

    Modified by philipp on

  6. Great post, Seburo!

    Thank you for all the observations, they are definitely important and valued. We will try our best to make SUMO better for everyone, but also a bit more fun.

    We can only do so much without great contributors like you and many, many other people involved with SUMO around the world, some of which you mentioned in your post. It definitely makes it much easier for the whole community if we have people freely exchanging observations and ideas - so that makes me thank you for your insightful post even more.

    Keep being awesome!

    Cheers,

    Michał

    Great post, Seburo! Thank you for all the observations, they are definitely important and valued. We will try our best to make SUMO better for everyone, but also a bit more fun. We can only do so much without great contributors like you and many, many other people involved with SUMO around the world, some of which you mentioned in your post. It definitely makes it much easier for the whole community if we have people freely exchanging observations and ideas - so that makes me thank you for your insightful post even more. Keep being awesome! Cheers, Michał
  7. Hi Seburo!

    I'm a newbie too, but I can see you have a lot of energy, this kind of energy that is necessary to help a lot of users and learn how to be better in the way.

    You are doing a lot of really good things, you're everyday solving on IRC channel and support forum users questions and helping to everybody with everything about SUMO :)

    Thanks Seburo! You are a excellent SUMO contributor! I hope to see you on SUMO for a long time.

    Hi Seburo! I'm a newbie too, but I can see you have a lot of energy, this kind of energy that is necessary to help a lot of users and learn how to be better in the way. You are doing a lot of really good things, you're everyday solving on IRC channel and support forum users questions and helping to everybody with everything about SUMO :) Thanks Seburo! You are a excellent SUMO contributor! I hope to see you on SUMO for a long time.
  8. Hiya

    Thank you to those that have commented (or are going to be commenting!). This topic is not closed, and there are lots of different things I raised, but I thought I would follow up on some of the comments;

    Double answers - I guess there are two ways (or stages) we can use to look into this. An informal policy recommending people refresh and/or start typing to check or highlight who is working on a question will not be foolproof, but would be a good first step. The other (more "expensive") approach, would be for the forum to have a message appear saying "There has been a new reply posted. Do you want to see this before posting your reply?". This would give the user a chance to see the new post and edit/delete their planned response as appropriate (I appreciate that this would come with a build cost in time and effort to implement).

    Giving feedback - Apologies if I wrote too much, but I have no fear or problem writing or reading feedback as long as it is balanced. If feedback is just one sided (positive or negative) it does not work. Constructive feedback and puts equal emphasis on positives and negatives is (I find) much better. To be fair, I wrote my post using what I have learned from the open source community - I made something and put it out there, not the end of the world if nobody sees it or uses it, but I like to think that by making I have made a difference.

    (If anyone does find the details of that music track please let me know.)

    Hiya Thank you to those that have commented (or are going to be commenting!). This topic is not closed, and there are lots of different things I raised, but I thought I would follow up on some of the comments; Double answers - I guess there are two ways (or stages) we can use to look into this. An informal policy recommending people refresh and/or start typing to check or highlight who is working on a question will not be foolproof, but would be a good first step. The other (more "expensive") approach, would be for the forum to have a message appear saying "There has been a new reply posted. Do you want to see this before posting your reply?". This would give the user a chance to see the new post and edit/delete their planned response as appropriate (I appreciate that this would come with a build cost in time and effort to implement). Giving feedback - Apologies if I wrote too much, but I have no fear or problem writing or reading feedback as long as it is balanced. If feedback is just one sided (positive or negative) it does not work. Constructive feedback and puts equal emphasis on positives and negatives is (I find) much better. To be fair, I wrote my post using what I have learned from the open source community - I made something and put it out there, not the end of the world if nobody sees it or uses it, but I like to think that by making I have made a difference. (If anyone does find the details of that music track please let me know.)