SUMO community discussions

[Sumo Support Policy] Recommending named browsers as alternatives to Firefox

  • 3 Replies
  • Last reply by Chris Ilias
  1. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    I am already suggesting * the forum guidelines be modified to make browser comparison & advocacy off topic. I am now going further and asking whether we should deter posts recommending alternative browsers ? and say that named browsers should not to be offered as a problem solution. edit routinely and repeatedly offered as a solution; or as the first choice solution; if other solutions are possible.

    • other than
      1. as in our KBs
      2. as troubleshooting steps e.g. check if other browsers do not have the problem, or use portable as quick workaround/test on Windows

    I am wondering should we wait for guidelines to be finalised, that could be a few days or it could take another year or longer with some subjects not reviewed; or should we take a stance now and say that it is off topic ?

    • Do we need to go any further, should we do anything to discourage posts suggesting alternative browsers ?
    • Is just suggesting discus alternative browsers on a different forum good enough ?
      That does not stop, or rule as incorrect suggestions to use alternative browsers.
    • Current discussion of guidelines could suggest editing of bad suggestions may not be recommended.
    • Should we at least ensure a contributor posts some alternative solution ?
    • Do we even need to consider such threads be flagged for moderators attention, and if so what then is the moderation policy ?
      If Mods are told not to edit or remove repeated posts like that what is the point of flagging.

    Popular suggestions like use another browser are going to help users with such ideas gain karma. They are going to gain votes and likes on their posts. Contributors suggesting for instance use addons and stay on Release are going to have the reverse and get unhelpful votes.

    To a lesser extent there is the same problem with suggestions to downgrade, and again Mods are likely to be told not to remove such posts or edit out the suggestion.

    Also note partly related thread 

    Could you please get your facts straight about Pale Moon? /forums/contributors/710307

    And an example of a recommendation https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1003944#answer-584210 The recommendation is pretty reasonable and balanced but it is a top 25 contributor being the first person in the thread to suggest using an alternative browser, and addons had already been mentioned and would have solved the issue.

    I am already suggesting <sup>[https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709952?last=59897&page=2#post-59834 *]</sup> the forum guidelines be modified to make browser comparison & advocacy off topic. I am now going further and asking whether we should deter posts recommending alternative browsers ? and say that named browsers should not to be <s>offered as a problem solution.</s> '''edit''' ''routinely and repeatedly offered as a solution; or as the first choice solution; if other solutions are possible''. * other than *# as in our KBs *# as troubleshooting steps e.g. check if other browsers do not have the problem, or use portable as quick workaround/test on Windows I am wondering should we wait for guidelines to be finalised, that could be a few days or it could take another year or longer with some subjects not reviewed; or should we take a stance now and say that it is off topic ? *Do we need to go any further, should we do anything to discourage posts suggesting alternative browsers ? *Is just suggesting discus alternative browsers on a different forum good enough ? <br />That does not stop, or rule as incorrect suggestions to use alternative browsers. *Current discussion of guidelines could suggest editing of bad suggestions may not be recommended. *Should we at least ensure a contributor posts some alternative solution ? *Do we even need to consider such threads be flagged for moderators attention, and if so what then is the moderation policy ? <br /> If Mods are told not to edit or remove repeated posts like that what is the point of flagging. Popular suggestions like use another browser are going to help users with such ideas gain karma. They are going to gain votes and likes on their posts. Contributors suggesting for instance use addons and stay on Release are going to have the reverse and get unhelpful votes. To a lesser extent there is the same problem with suggestions to downgrade, and again Mods are likely to be told not to remove such posts or edit out the suggestion. Also note partly related thread ''Could you please get your facts straight about Pale Moon?'' [/forums/contributors/710307] And an example of a recommendation https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1003944#answer-584210 The recommendation is pretty reasonable and balanced but it is a top 25 contributor being the first person in the thread to suggest using an alternative browser, and addons had already been mentioned and would have solved the issue.

    Modified by John99 on

  2. mjbrm
    mjbrm 480 posts
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     I am wondering should we wait for guidelines to be finalised, that could be a few days or it could take another year or longer with some subjects not reviewed; or should we take a stance now and say that it is off topic ?

    IMO, anything that doesn't relate to technical support should be marked as off-topic, closed, and the user should be referred to an alternative discussion area such as reddit or the firefox dev mailing list. This forum isn't meant to be used as a discussion forum for Firefox 29, therefore we should direct all users to either Input or an alternative site such as mozillaZine. ATM, we are currently breaking policy by allowing Australis threads to run wild left to right and that shouldn't happen. I understand that users are determined to get the old version back but Mozilla won't reverse their decision to revert back to version 28's UI unless Mozilla sees a huge drop in Firefox use percentage. Over 400 million people use Firefox. If about half or more of those users quit using Firefox, Mozilla may reverse their decision but I don't see that happening. We, as Moderators, recommending an alternative browser seems like we don't care about users but the message is misunderstood. If users don't want to stay on Firefox, why force them? Just let them leave if they don't enjoy Firefox. 

     Do we need to go any further, should we do anything to discourage posts suggesting alternative browsers ?

    I don't think we should discourage posts against using other browsers. Users have a choice to choice between Firefox and other browser. If they feel like they want to leave Firefox to go to Pale Moon or similar, let them. Mozilla is all about choice. Users shouldn't be foreced to stay on Firefox. 

    Is just suggesting discus alternative browsers on a different forum good enough ?

    Do you have any other ideas besides referring users to the mailing list or other places on the web?

    <!-Co--> I am wondering should we wait for guidelines to be finalised, that could be a few days or it could take another year or longer with some subjects not reviewed; or should we take a stance now and say that it is off topic ? IMO, anything that doesn't relate to technical support should be marked as off-topic, closed, and the user should be referred to an alternative discussion area such as reddit or the firefox dev mailing list. This forum isn't meant to be used as a discussion forum for Firefox 29, therefore we should direct all users to either Input or an alternative site such as mozillaZine. ATM, we are currently breaking policy by allowing Australis threads to run wild left to right and that shouldn't happen. I understand that users are determined to get the old version back but Mozilla won't reverse their decision to revert back to version 28's UI unless Mozilla sees a huge drop in Firefox use percentage. Over 400 million people use Firefox. If about half or more of those users quit using Firefox, Mozilla <i>may</i> reverse their decision but I don't see that happening. We, as Moderators, recommending an alternative browser seems like we don't care about users but the message is misunderstood. If users don't want to stay on Firefox, why force them? Just let them leave if they don't enjoy Firefox. Do we need to go any further, should we do anything to discourage posts suggesting alternative browsers ? I don't think we should discourage posts against using other browsers. Users have a choice to choice between Firefox and other browser. If they feel like they want to leave Firefox to go to Pale Moon or similar, let them. Mozilla is all about choice. Users shouldn't be foreced to stay on Firefox. Is just suggesting discus alternative browsers on a different forum good enough ? Do you have any other ideas besides referring users to the mailing list or other places on the web?

    Modified by mjbrm on

  3. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    Australis is off topic again Madalina sent me a PM making it clear that Fx29 Development /Australis is again off topic. I have since closed one long exception, and am proposing closing another.

    But we will still get genuine on topic support questions that will generate suggestions to not use Firefox. I am trying to clarify how we are going to handle all the suggestions I expect to be saying change browsers. Of course we can just leave such suggestions and allow them to be picked as solutions.

    I don't mind us doing that, I just thought it ought to be discussed.

    Australis is off topic again Madalina sent me a PM making it clear that Fx29 Development /Australis is again off topic. I have since closed one long exception, and am proposing closing another. But we will still get genuine on topic support questions that will generate suggestions to not use Firefox. I am trying to clarify how we are going to handle all the suggestions I expect to be saying change browsers. Of course we can just leave such suggestions and allow them to be picked as solutions. I don't mind us doing that, I just thought it ought to be discussed.
  4. Chris Ilias
    Chris Ilias 2450 posts
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    John99 said

    I am already suggesting * the forum guidelines be modified to make browser comparison & advocacy off topic. I am now going further and asking whether we should deter posts recommending alternative browsers ? and say that named browsers should not to be offered as a problem solution. edit routinely and repeatedly offered as a solution; or as the first choice solution; if other solutions are possible.

    If someone is repeatedly suggesting the same browser in different threads where Firefox solutions/workarounds are available, then I would classify it as spam.

    Of course, it mostly depends on the context.

    ''John99 [[#post-59944|said]]'' <blockquote> I am already suggesting <sup>[https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709952?last=59897&page=2#post-59834 *]</sup> the forum guidelines be modified to make browser comparison & advocacy off topic. I am now going further and asking whether we should deter posts recommending alternative browsers ? and say that named browsers should not to be <s>offered as a problem solution.</s> '''edit''' ''routinely and repeatedly offered as a solution; or as the first choice solution; if other solutions are possible''. </blockquote> If someone is repeatedly suggesting the same browser in different threads where Firefox solutions/workarounds are available, then I would classify it as spam. Of course, it mostly depends on the context.