SUMO community discussions

[Your help needed] Persona testing

  • 19 Replies
  • Last reply by cor-el
  1. Kadir Topal
    Kadir Topal 1215 posts
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    As you may know, Persona integration was one of the two big goals for the platform this quarter. Now it's finally here. It's already in place on stage and ready for testing: http://support.allizom.org

    I created this Etherpad for testing: https://sumo.etherpad.mozilla.org/301

    What can you do?

    Please have a look at the Etherpad and test as many pathes as you can today, bonus points if you do it right away. Once you're done with a path, put your name and an "OK", or "failed" behind the path and a note what happened.

    What is the schedule for rollout?

    Now that we have everything in place all that is left is testing all pathes noted in the Etherpad. That is in addition to automated tests done by QA. Assuming all tests are passing, we'll roll out tomorrow, Tuesday, September 23rd.

    Many thanks to Ricky and to Rehan for leading the project!

    Thanks! Kadir

    As you may know, Persona integration was one of the two big goals for the platform this quarter. Now it's finally here. It's already in place on stage and ready for testing: http://support.allizom.org I created this Etherpad for testing: https://sumo.etherpad.mozilla.org/301 '''What can you do?''' Please have a look at the Etherpad and test as many pathes as you can today, bonus points if you do it right away. Once you're done with a path, put your name and an "OK", or "failed" behind the path and a note what happened. '''What is the schedule for rollout?''' Now that we have everything in place all that is left is testing all pathes noted in the Etherpad. That is in addition to automated tests done by QA. Assuming all tests are passing, we'll roll out tomorrow, Tuesday, September 23rd. Many thanks to Ricky and to Rehan for leading the project! Thanks! Kadir

    Modified by Kadir Topal on

  2. Nellus
    Nellus 21 posts
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    I do different poin in the list...it s ok?

    I do different poin in the list...it s ok?
  3. Kadir Topal
    Kadir Topal 1215 posts
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    Not sure what you mean, Nelly. Can you elaborate?

    Not sure what you mean, Nelly. Can you elaborate?
  4. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    What about those not wishing or not able to use Persona ?

    Surely it is bad to suddenly break the existing login system and replace it with Persona.

    Did not other sites (?? Bugzilla MDN) allow dual sign in methods either an existing login and password or persona at last for an interim period. This is apparently enforcing persona use. Users who have asked a question and logged on in the past could come back and be stuck when faced with persona.

    What about those with no knowledge of Persona ?
    At the very least we need warnings about the change to be made highly visible.

    The etherpad has a section headed 

    Existing contributor (with existing SUMO account)

    As an existing contributor I have no problem logging on using persona. There is however no option to login using my user name and password if I have problems with persona.

    What about those not wishing or not able to use Persona ? Surely it is bad to suddenly break the existing login system and replace it with Persona. Did not other sites (?? Bugzilla MDN) allow dual sign in methods either an existing login and password or persona at last for an interim period. This is apparently enforcing persona use. Users who have asked a question and logged on in the past could come back and be stuck when faced with persona. What about those with no knowledge of Persona ? <br /> At the very least we need warnings about the change to be made highly visible. The etherpad has a section headed Existing contributor (with existing SUMO account) As an existing contributor I have no problem logging on using persona. There is however no option to login using my user name and password if I have problems with persona.
  5. Kadir Topal
    Kadir Topal 1215 posts
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    John99 said

    What about those not wishing or not able to use Persona ? Surely it is bad to suddenly break the existing login system and replace it with Persona. Did not other sites (?? Bugzilla MDN) allow dual sign in methods either an existing login and password or persona at last for an interim period. This is apparently enforcing persona use. Users who have asked a question and logged on in the past could come back and be stuck when faced with persona.

    Back when those sites implemented Persona it was still in Beta and changing a lot, it made sense to offer a backup. But Persona is stable now and is the only authentication method for a number of Mozilla services like mozillians and the Marketplace.

    John99 said

    What about those with no knowledge of Persona ?
    At the very least we need warnings about the change to be made highly visible.

    SUMO contributors are being notified. Users who sign up to ask questions should not be affected. For them this is not a change.

    John99 said

    The etherpad has a section headed Existing contributor (with existing SUMO account) As an existing contributor I have no problem logging on using persona. There is however no option to login using my user name and password if I have problems with persona.

    Yes, that's true. We want to offer the helpdesk support to those who have Persona issues. However, this is not different from before. People who had issues with our site registration or sign-in were in no different position.

    All in all this change should be an upgrade to most users. Gmail users don't have to go through the email verification to ask a question and SUMO contributors can use their Persona log-in on most Mozilla community sites without having to sign-up again.

    But please keep bringing up potential issues, we need to prepare for them indeed.

    ''John99 [[#post-54392|said]]'' <blockquote> What about those not wishing or not able to use Persona ? Surely it is bad to suddenly break the existing login system and replace it with Persona. Did not other sites (?? Bugzilla MDN) allow dual sign in methods either an existing login and password or persona at last for an interim period. This is apparently enforcing persona use. Users who have asked a question and logged on in the past could come back and be stuck when faced with persona.</blockquote> Back when those sites implemented Persona it was still in Beta and changing a lot, it made sense to offer a backup. But Persona is stable now and is the only authentication method for a number of Mozilla services like mozillians and the Marketplace. ''John99 [[#post-54392|said]]'' <blockquote> What about those with no knowledge of Persona ? <br /> At the very least we need warnings about the change to be made highly visible.</blockquote> SUMO contributors are being notified. Users who sign up to ask questions should not be affected. For them this is not a change. ''John99 [[#post-54392|said]]'' <blockquote> The etherpad has a section headed Existing contributor (with existing SUMO account) As an existing contributor I have no problem logging on using persona. There is however no option to login using my user name and password if I have problems with persona.</blockquote> Yes, that's true. We want to offer the helpdesk support to those who have Persona issues. However, this is not different from before. People who had issues with our site registration or sign-in were in no different position. All in all this change should be an upgrade to most users. Gmail users don't have to go through the email verification to ask a question and SUMO contributors can use their Persona log-in on most Mozilla community sites without having to sign-up again. But please keep bringing up potential issues, we need to prepare for them indeed.
  6. the-edmeister
    the-edmeister 603 posts
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    SUMO contributors are being notified. Users who sign up to ask questions should not be affected. For them this is not a change.

    Excellent!

    <blockquote> SUMO contributors are being notified. '''Users who sign up to ask questions should not be affected. For them this is not a change.''' </blockquote> Excellent!
  7. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    the-edmeister said

    SUMO contributors are being notified. Users who sign up to ask questions should not be affected. For them this is not a change.

    Excellent!

    Not what I see if not logged in and attempting to ask a question:

    1. https://support.allizom.org/en-US/questions/new
      • option is to sign in with email
    2. proceed further without using that option

    ONLY option is to sign in with email.

    ''the-edmeister [[#post-54402|said]]'' <blockquote> <blockquote> SUMO contributors are being notified. '''Users who sign up to ask questions should not be affected. For them this is not a change.''' </blockquote> Excellent! </blockquote> Not what I see if not logged in and attempting to ask a question: # https://support.allizom.org/en-US/questions/new #* option is to sign in with email # proceed further without using that option #*https://support.allizom.org/en-US/questions/new/desktop/fix-problems/form?search=not+logged+in&step=aaq-register ONLY option is to sign in with email.
  8. Kadir Topal
    Kadir Topal 1215 posts
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    That wording might have been confusing. What I meant is: For new users it does not make sense to tell them about any change. What change? They are using it for the first time. For them it's like SUMO has always been using this method. I mapped out the exact process here: http://hugepic.io/81db8c49e

    As you can see for Gmail users (1/3 of all new users) this is a huge improvement.

    That wording might have been confusing. What I meant is: For new users it does not make sense to tell them about any change. What change? They are using it for the first time. For them it's like SUMO has always been using this method. I mapped out the exact process here: http://hugepic.io/81db8c49e As you can see for Gmail users (1/3 of all new users) this is a huge improvement.
  9. philipp
    philipp 1300 posts
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    persona isn't ideal when you use multiple gmail accounts (but it's no issue particular to sumo). for example i use an account "private@gmail.com" where i'm usually logged into and another account "public@gmail.com" for spam-avoiding/filtering/privacy reasons which i generally provide for website sign-ups etc.

    now when i want to log-into persona with "public@gmail.com" i'll get the error message that i'm already logged in with my other gmail account and there are two options: "go back" and "force log-out" (which does nothing). so in order to actually sign in, i'll have to open a new gmail-tab and sign out of my account, then switch back to the persona login-form, select "public@gmail.com" again and provide my google account credentials in order to get signed in (extra steps when i want to keep logged-in my main account in gmail: go back to gmail.com, reload the page and sign out of public@gmail.com and provide the account credentials for private@gmail.com) - so it's not a great workflow...

    persona isn't ideal when you use multiple gmail accounts (but it's no issue particular to sumo). for example i use an account "private@gmail.com" where i'm usually logged into and another account "public@gmail.com" for spam-avoiding/filtering/privacy reasons which i generally provide for website sign-ups etc. now when i want to log-into persona with "public@gmail.com" i'll get the error message that i'm already logged in with my other gmail account and there are two options: "go back" and "force log-out" (which does nothing). so in order to actually sign in, i'll have to open a new gmail-tab and sign out of my account, then switch back to the persona login-form, select "public@gmail.com" again and provide my google account credentials in order to get signed in (extra steps when i want to keep logged-in my main account in gmail: go back to gmail.com, reload the page and sign out of public@gmail.com and provide the account credentials for private@gmail.com) - so it's not a great workflow...
  10. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    If gmail is a big advantage for1/3 that is a reminder that the majority 2/3rds do not use gmail and will be at a disadvantage.

    For users involved with sumo ie who have posted previously this will be a change.

    Dont get me wrong I am all for changing to using persona to sign in.

    I just wonder if the sudden change may cause problems if there is no alternative sign in method; at least for some interim period. We must remember there is not really any backup alternative method of getting help there is no telephone or IRC option now.

    I do not think Persona is foolproof, and could be another hurdle for a novice user trying to get help.
    I can foresee potential problems with

    • Multiple email accounts,
    • Multiple passwords being set for persona
    • Users just not trusting something new and unexpected
    • Transitional issues with users returning after previously logging in the old way. Especially on the first day.

    At the very least we need a clear warning about the change, and maybe a kb article or link to persona help that novices can read.

    If gmail is a big advantage for1/3 that is a reminder that the majority 2/3rds do not use gmail and will be at a disadvantage. For users involved with sumo ie who have posted previously this will be a change. Dont get me wrong I am all for changing to using persona to sign in. I just wonder if the sudden change may cause problems if there is no alternative sign in method; at least for some interim period. We must remember there is not really any backup alternative method of getting help there is no telephone or IRC option now. I do not think Persona is foolproof, and could be another hurdle for a novice user trying to get help. <br />I can foresee potential problems with * Multiple email accounts, * Multiple passwords being set for persona * Users just not trusting something new and unexpected * Transitional issues with users returning after previously logging in the old way. Especially on the first day. At the very least we need a clear warning about the change, and maybe a kb article or link to persona help that novices can read.
  11. Kensie
    Kensie 666 posts
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    philipp said

    persona isn't ideal when you use multiple gmail accounts (but it's no issue particular to sumo). for example i use an account "private@gmail.com" where i'm usually logged into and another account "public@gmail.com" for spam-avoiding/filtering/privacy reasons which i generally provide for website sign-ups etc.

    You can actually be logged in to more than one gmail account at a time - https://support.google.com/mail/answer/1721977?hl=en

    Though I agree, it's actually more steps if you have multiple accounts then when Persona didn't use it. It will present you with a choice of which gmail account to log in with. Though I think multiple gmail accounts is an edge case.

    ''philipp [[#post-54405|said]]'' <blockquote> persona isn't ideal when you use multiple gmail accounts (but it's no issue particular to sumo). for example i use an account "private@gmail.com" where i'm usually logged into and another account "public@gmail.com" for spam-avoiding/filtering/privacy reasons which i generally provide for website sign-ups etc. </blockquote> You can actually be logged in to more than one gmail account at a time - https://support.google.com/mail/answer/1721977?hl=en Though I agree, it's actually more steps if you have multiple accounts then when Persona didn't use it. It will present you with a choice of which gmail account to log in with. Though I think multiple gmail accounts is an edge case.
  12. NoahSUMO
    NoahSUMO 519 posts
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    John99 said

    The etherpad has a section headed Existing contributor (with existing SUMO account) As an existing contributor I have no problem logging on using persona. There is however no option to login using my user name and password if I have problems with persona.

    John makes a good point here. We're putting all our eggs in one basket and depending on webmail sites to be up and running to allow us to login.

    For example, if Gmail were to go down (and it has happened before) the contributors would not be able to log in. This puts us at the mercy of Gmail (or any other webmail) being up and running and able to authenticate the user with persona. I don't like the idea of not having a backup login system. At least with that, we could always get into our SUMO account as long as Mozilla's servers are up.

    Also what about if Persona were to go down or suffer a glitch after an update, where we wouldn't be able to login at all. I know you said it's past beta but I'm just picturing the issues that Sync goes thru every once in a while. I can't see Persona being immune from that.

    ''John99 [[#post-54392|said]]'' <blockquote> The etherpad has a section headed Existing contributor (with existing SUMO account) As an existing contributor I have no problem logging on using persona. There is however no option to login using my user name and password if I have problems with persona. </blockquote> John makes a good point here. We're putting all our eggs in one basket and depending on webmail sites to be up and running to allow us to login. For example, if Gmail were to go down (and it has happened before) the contributors would not be able to log in. This puts us at the mercy of Gmail (or any other webmail) being up and running and able to authenticate the user with persona. I don't like the idea of not having a backup login system. At least with that, we could always get into our SUMO account as long as Mozilla's servers are up. Also what about if Persona were to go down or suffer a glitch after an update, where we wouldn't be able to login at all. I know you said it's past beta but I'm just picturing the issues that Sync goes thru every once in a while. I can't see Persona being immune from that.

    Modified by NoahSUMO on

  13. the-edmeister
    the-edmeister 603 posts
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    Disappointing that Persona is going to be mandatory for users. Needing an external source for signing in is an over-complication of what has been (and should be) a simple process to gain entry to support. And another bar for users to climb over to get where they can ask for support, IMO. Meanwhile we're discussing simplifying the AAQ workflow process and we make it harder to get to the first page of that process.

    Disappointing that Persona is going to be mandatory for users. Needing an external source for signing in is an over-complication of what has been ''(and should be)'' a simple process to gain entry to support. And another bar for users to climb over to get where they can ask for support, IMO. Meanwhile we're discussing simplifying the AAQ workflow process and we make it harder to get to the first page of that process.
  14. jscher2000 - Support Volunteer
    jscher2000 - Support Volunteer 832 posts
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    Where do notifications go if you log in using Persona? If I want to keep using my existing forums mail account is that an option?

    Where do notifications go if you log in using Persona? If I want to keep using my existing forums mail account is that an option?
  15. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    No doubt you already tried looking yourself, and are expecting Kadi to confirm.

    To one of your persona email accounts presumably.
    As far as I can tell you will not be able to use one ac to sign in and another to receive your notifications. Possibly that was what you were hoping for.

    I am basing this on the way that stage seems to be working with the presumption that is what will happen when it goes live tomorrow.

    I can not actually verify all of this as stage presumably is not fully functional.

    Trying on allizom the profile I used for a test has in the profiles settings an option for editing the email but to change it using persona.

    I could not get that to work for changing the email address for notifictions.
    All it did was sign me in under the other email address to a different profile. Let's hope that works when it is live.

    No doubt you already tried looking yourself, and are expecting Kadi to confirm. To one of your persona email accounts presumably. <br />As far as I can tell you will not be able to use one ac to sign in and another to receive your notifications. Possibly that was what you were hoping for. ------------- I am basing this on the way that stage seems to be working with the presumption that is what will happen when it goes live tomorrow. I can not actually verify all of this as stage presumably is not fully functional. Trying on allizom the profile I used for a test has in the profiles settings an option for editing the email but to change it using persona. * [https://support.allizom.org/en-US/users/edit#] ''Change with Persona'' I could '''not''' get that to work for changing the email address for notifictions. <br /> All it did was sign me in under the other email address to a different profile. Let's hope that works when it is live. *I made a test post <br /> [https://support.allizom.org/en-US/questions/970379] ** used profile <br /> '' j99-gc1''<br />[https://support.allizom.org/en-US/user/953579] ** I did not actually receive any email notification **The profile's link to the question did not work https://support.allizom.org/en-US/search?a=1&asked_by=j99-gc1&sortby=1&w=2 **and the my contribs filter did not work
  16. Kadir Topal
    Kadir Topal 1215 posts
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    We just had the go/no-go meeting for Persona with stakeholders from SUMO, SUMOdev and the identity team. The decision is to not go ahead with Persona at this point.

    Over the last month we spent a lot of time to implement Persona on our end and get all the issues fixed that came up in the mean time. At this point we are happy with most flows and okay with others. Unfortunately after fixing all issues on our end we discovered that Persona would not work for the vast majority of users on Firefox OS. If you want to see how exactly it is failing you can watch this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDVHzmSqhpI

    In our meeting today the identity team acknowledged the issues, they are partially Persona related and partially Firefox OS related. As the next step they are going to file the bugs and try to get them fixed. However, it's unclear yet how long that will take. If fixes to Firefox OS are necessary, that could be as late as Firefox OS 1.3 or later.

    For us that means that we are going to help the identity team with feedback to fix those bugs, but in the meantime we are putting the Persona project on ice. It's still in our code though, and once the issues are fixed or workarounds found, we can deploy this at any time.

    Thanks for everyone who tested the workflow and put their feedback in the Etherpad, it was incredibly useful and helped us to identify issues that we fixed right away.

    I'll keep you updated on the status of Persona as we get closer to rolling it out, hopefully sometime soon.

    Thanks! Kadir

    We just had the go/no-go meeting for Persona with stakeholders from SUMO, SUMOdev and the identity team. The decision is to not go ahead with Persona at this point. Over the last month we spent a lot of time to implement Persona on our end and get all the issues fixed that came up in the mean time. At this point we are happy with most flows and okay with others. Unfortunately after fixing all issues on our end we discovered that Persona would not work for the vast majority of users on Firefox OS. If you want to see how exactly it is failing you can watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDVHzmSqhpI In our meeting today the identity team acknowledged the issues, they are partially Persona related and partially Firefox OS related. As the next step they are going to file the bugs and try to get them fixed. However, it's unclear yet how long that will take. If fixes to Firefox OS are necessary, that could be as late as Firefox OS 1.3 or later. For us that means that we are going to help the identity team with feedback to fix those bugs, but in the meantime we are putting the Persona project on ice. It's still in our code though, and once the issues are fixed or workarounds found, we can deploy this at any time. Thanks for everyone who tested the workflow and put their feedback in the Etherpad, it was incredibly useful and helped us to identify issues that we fixed right away. I'll keep you updated on the status of Persona as we get closer to rolling it out, hopefully sometime soon. Thanks! Kadir
  17. jscher2000 - Support Volunteer
    jscher2000 - Support Volunteer 832 posts
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    Hi John99, I didn't actually test it myself, thank you for looking into it. I don't know whether I can use my ISP's IMAP server with a Persona account; I'll need to experiment with that at some point.

    Hi John99, I didn't actually test it myself, thank you for looking into it. I don't know whether I can use my ISP's IMAP server with a Persona account; I'll need to experiment with that at some point.
  18. Ibai
    Ibai 301 posts
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    Jscher200, you can create a Persona account with any email address and the idea is that anyone who has a SUMO account as today will turn that into a Persona account when the time comes.

    In other words, you don't need a Gmail or Yahoo address to use Persona.

    Does it clarify?

    Ibai

    Jscher200, you can create a Persona account with any email address and the idea is that anyone who has a SUMO account as today will turn that into a Persona account when the time comes. In other words, you don't need a Gmail or Yahoo address to use Persona. Does it clarify? Ibai
  19. jscher2000 - Support Volunteer
    jscher2000 - Support Volunteer 832 posts
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    Thanks, Ibai. I will try it at some point.

    Thanks, Ibai. I will try it at some point.
  20. cor-el
    cor-el 1494 posts
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    I sometimes see the page loading hang on login.persona.org although I'm logged on SUMO in the 'classic' way.

    There is a script loaded:

    I sometimes see the page loading hang on login.persona.org although I'm logged on SUMO in the 'classic' way. There is a script loaded: *https://login.persona.org/include.js