SUMO community discussions

Forum Guidelines - general discussion

  • 142 Replies
  • Last reply by Madasan
  1. Madasan
    Madasan 1255 posts
    more options

    UPDATE: in order to avoid constant hijacking of the thread we are now using this thread only for general issues around guidelines, like proposing new topics etc. Each guideline that needs to be discussed will now have a separate thread as per etherpad: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-guidelines


    Hi all,

    This thread is for discussing the forum moderation and guidelines as listed in this etherpad. The outcome will be a clear, updated set of guidelines for everybody using the support forum (users, contributors, moderators) which should clarify the way we interact on the support forum and how we deal with specific situations.

    How it works

    We will be discussing each topic in this etherpad one by one. Once the discussion is over the topic is crossed off the list, marked as DONE and we move to the next topic. Each topic has its own etherpad with all the background information needed. There’s no need to add more things there, as the discussion takes place I will structure all the information and give it a final form.

    If you have a new topic to bring to the table please add it to the bottom of the list.

    UPDATE: in order to avoid constant hijacking of the thread we are now using this thread only for general issues around guidelines, like proposing new topics etc. Each guideline that needs to be discussed will now have a separate thread as per etherpad: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-guidelines Hi all, This thread is for discussing the forum moderation and guidelines as listed in this [https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-guidelines etherpad]. The outcome will be a clear, updated set of guidelines for everybody using the support forum (users, contributors, moderators) which should clarify the way we interact on the support forum and how we deal with specific situations. How it works We will be discussing each topic in this [https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-guidelines etherpad] '''one by one'''. Once the discussion is over the topic is crossed off the list, marked as DONE and we move to the next topic. Each topic has its own etherpad with all the background information needed. There’s no need to add more things there, as the discussion takes place '''I will structure all the information and give it a final form.''' If you have a new topic to bring to the table please add it to the bottom of the list.

    Modified by Madasan on

  2. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6329 posts
    more options

    madasan said

    2. Threads Not Related to Mozilla Suggestions: - answer to the OP the forum is for Firefox questions only - lock thread

    This is from the existing Mozilla Support rules and guidelines: 

    *Posts in the Firefox support forum must be either questions about the use of Firefox or answers to those questions. Users who post about things other than Firefox support will be directed to an alternative discussion place (ex: mozillaZine) if appropriate.

    We should explain that the forum is for Firefox questions only but I don't know if it's necessary to lock the thread at this point. As cor-el mentioned in the Threads Not Related to Mozilla discussion, others may be able to answer the question even if it isn't about Firefox.

    New subjects

    5. Locking threads. We need guidelines about when it's appropriate for a moderator to lock a thread. For example, see the 2009 DRAFT guidelines for Forum Moderators post by cww, under "Things you should let an admin handle": 2) Locking threads. If a support thread has completely degenerated, it would be good to lock it so it doesn't get worse. However, this is a delicate decision that should be made on a case-by-case basis.

    6. Deleting threads or individual posts. We also need guidelines on when it's appropriate to delete a post. As I said in the Threads Not Related to Mozilla discussion, about the current Forum rules and guidelines, only spam posts should be deleted. No mention is made about other posts being deleted, or about threads being locked. As I read it, posts with inappropriate content (foul language, spam links, sensitive information, etc.) should be edited to remove that content. (Links to exe files that are possibly malware should also be edited out IMHO that's something that should be added to the guidelines.)

    ''madasan [[#post-51236|said]]'' <blockquote> 2. [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709028?last=51212 Threads Not Related to Mozilla] Suggestions: - answer to the OP the forum is for Firefox questions only - lock thread </blockquote> This is from the existing [[Forum rules and guidelines]]: *Posts in the Firefox support forum must be either questions about the use of Firefox or answers to those questions. Users who post about things other than Firefox support will be directed to an alternative discussion place (ex: mozillaZine) if appropriate. We should explain that the forum is for Firefox questions only but I don't know if it's necessary to lock the thread at this point. As cor-el mentioned in the [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709028?last=51212 Threads Not Related to Mozilla] discussion, others may be able to answer the question even if it isn't about Firefox. '''New subjects''' '''5. Locking threads.''' We need guidelines about when it's appropriate for a moderator to lock a thread. For example, see the [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/424567#post-2933 2009 DRAFT guidelines for Forum Moderators post by cww], under "Things you should let an admin handle": ''2) Locking threads. If a support thread has completely degenerated, it would be good to lock it so it doesn't get worse. However, this is a delicate decision that should be made on a case-by-case basis.'' '''6. Deleting threads or individual posts.''' We also need guidelines on when it's appropriate to delete a post. As I said in the [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709028?last=51212 Threads Not Related to Mozilla] discussion, about the current Forum rules and guidelines, ''only spam posts should be deleted. No mention is made about other posts being deleted, or about threads being locked. As I read it, posts with inappropriate content (foul language, spam links, sensitive information, etc.) should be edited to remove that content. (Links to exe files that are possibly malware should also be edited out IMHO that's something that should be added to the guidelines.)

    Modified by AliceWyman on

  3. John99
    John99 3665 posts
    more options

    2. Threads (in user support) Not Related to Mozilla

    Suggestions:

    1. - answer to the OP the forum is for Firefox questions only
      • if possible provide a helpful link or suggestion
      • it is especially important if the question directly relates to Firefox use that the poster is directed towards a suitable resource. (For instance a Windows or Mozillazine article or forum)
    2. - Use the report this button, - where appropriate a moderator will lock the thread
    2. [/forums/contributors/709028 Threads '''(in user support)''' Not Related to Mozilla] Suggestions: #- answer to the OP the forum is for Firefox questions only #*'''if possible provide a helpful link or suggestion''' #* '''it is especially important if the question directly relates to Firefox use that the poster is directed towards a suitable resource. (For instance a Windows or Mozillazine article or forum)''' #- Use the report this button, - where appropriate '''a moderator''' will lock the thread
  4. John99
    John99 3665 posts
    more options

    3. (Contributor forums) Misplaced posts checklist

    Suggestions:

    - Move the thread to the Lost Threads forum
    ordinary user can not do this
    There is no report button on some forums
    That prevents the user or contributor doing anything else, & locks the thread.

    - Explain what the forum is for

    - Ask how they arrived here
    maybe provide the user with a PM link
    ? how/where will we collect this information

    - Point them to the proper place to post (before move)

    - Try to answer the question ( !? Before reporting)

    3. [/forums/contributors/708859?last=51155 '''(Contributor forums)''' Misplaced posts checklist] Suggestions: - Move the thread to the Lost Threads forum<br />'' ordinary user can not do this <br/> There is no report button on some forums<br />That prevents the user or contributor doing anything else, & locks the thread.'' - Explain what the forum is for - Ask how they arrived here ''<br />maybe provide the user with a PM link <br/>? how/where will we collect this information'' - Point them to the proper place to post ''(before move)'' - Try to answer the question ''( !? Before reporting)''
  5. John99
    John99 3665 posts
    more options

    4. Policy on executable links

    Suggestions:

    - do not use executable links as there are serious security concerns unless

    •  ?! it is a link posted in another official Mozilla webpage for instance a kb article.

    - as an alternative if appropriate post to an explanatory web page that contains the executable link
    P.S. AND remember where necessary to include an advisory comment if bundled software is likely to be included (e.g. Adobe Flash incl other products may also include AV or security software ?? and GoogleChrome !!; Oracle Java & Ask toolbar)

    2nd Edit Note PFS soon to link to KB rather than direct link to Oracle

    (Verdi: Linking to this article from PFS )


    Bug 847974 will link this article from the plugin finder service instead of the java download. In order to make it more relevant for users coming to it from that path (and not a bad change I think anyway), I reordered the content to put installing and updating java right under the table of contents.

    4. [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/708980 Policy on executable links] Suggestions: - do not use executable links as there are serious security concerns '''unless''' *'' ?! it is a link posted in another official Mozilla webpage for instance a kb article.'' ''- as an alternative if appropriate post to an explanatory web page that contains the executable link '' <br/>P.S. AND remember where necessary to include an advisory comment if bundled software is likely to be included (e.g. Adobe Flash incl other products may also include AV or security software ?? and GoogleChrome !!; Oracle Java & Ask toolbar) ------ 2nd Edit Note PFS soon to link to KB rather than direct link to Oracle * see [[Use the Java plugin to view interactive content on websites]] ** discussion /kb/use-java-plugin-to-view-interactive-content/discuss/4767 <blockquote> ===(Verdi: Linking to this article from PFS )=== <br/>[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=847974 Bug 847974] will link this article from the plugin finder service instead of the java download. In order to make it more relevant for users coming to it from that path (and not a bad change I think anyway), I reordered the content to put installing and updating java right under the table of contents. </blockquote>

    Modified by John99 on

  6. John99
    John99 3665 posts
    more options

    NEW SUBJECT
    7) Bugzilla links

    IIRC It has been discussed before. IMHO

    • Normally do not post in the user forums, instead post the bug name and number. Direct links may encourage bug spam
    • in the contributors forums on the other hand if you discuss bugs for instance breaking issues, new features and KB writing at least on first mentioning include the bug link. Contributors may be trusted not to spam bugs, and may often wish to find and read the details in the bug
    NEW SUBJECT <br> '''7) Bugzilla links''' IIRC It has been discussed before. IMHO * Normally do not post in the user forums, instead post the bug name and number. Direct links may encourage bug spam ** If a link is posted consider a suitable comment and a link to <br /> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=etiquette.html *in the contributors forums on the other hand if you discuss bugs for instance breaking issues, new features and KB writing at least on first mentioning include the bug link. Contributors may be trusted not to spam bugs, and may often wish to find and read the details in the bug

    Modified by John99 on

  7. John99
    John99 3665 posts
    more options

    madalina,

    Why not you or one of us open one or better still a series of etherpads for brainstorming this, one as an index/tracker, and linked from that one for each subject.

    This thread otherwise will rapidly grow and get messy. Etherpads seem more suitable and easier to edit and rearrange if necessary.

    madalina, Why not you or one of us open one or better still a series of etherpads for brainstorming this, one as an index/tracker, and linked from that one for each subject. This thread otherwise will rapidly grow and get messy. Etherpads seem more suitable and easier to edit and rearrange if necessary.
  8. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6329 posts
    more options

    John99 said

    madalina, Why not you or one of us open one or better still a series of etherpads for brainstorming this, one as an index/tracker, and linked from that one for each subject. This thread otherwise will rapidly grow and get messy. Etherpads seem more suitable and easier to edit and rearrange if necessary.

    Actually, I prefer the forum for discussion and the etherpad to propose a final set of guidelines. Otherwise, the etherpad can be hard to figure out who wrote what, if people forget to add their names.

    ''John99 [[#post-51243|said]]'' <blockquote> madalina, Why not you or one of us open one or better still a series of etherpads for brainstorming this, one as an index/tracker, and linked from that one for each subject. This thread otherwise will rapidly grow and get messy. Etherpads seem more suitable and easier to edit and rearrange if necessary. </blockquote> Actually, I prefer the forum for discussion and the etherpad to propose a final set of guidelines. Otherwise, the etherpad can be hard to figure out who wrote what, if people forget to add their names.

    Modified by AliceWyman on

  9. John99
    John99 3665 posts
    more options

    AliceWyman said

    John99 said
    madalina,
    Why not you or one of us open one or better still a series of etherpads for brainstorming this, one as an index/tracker, and linked from that one for each subject.

    This thread otherwise will rapidly grow and get messy. Etherpads seem more suitable and easier to edit and rearrange if necessary.

    Actually, I prefer the forum for discussion and the etherpad to propose a final set of guidelines. Otherwise, the etherpad can be hard to figure out who wrote what, if people forget to add their names.

    In that case maybe we should use this thread as a tracking thread.

    • list each subject on the first post of this thread
    • spin off a new thread for each separate subject
    ''AliceWyman [[#post-51244|said]]'' <blockquote> ''John99 [[#post-51243|said]]'' <blockquote> madalina,<br /> Why not you or one of us open one or better still a series of etherpads for brainstorming this, one as an index/tracker, and linked from that one for each subject. <br/><br/>This thread otherwise will rapidly grow and get messy. Etherpads seem more suitable and easier to edit and rearrange if necessary. </blockquote> Actually, I prefer the forum for discussion and the etherpad to propose a final set of guidelines. Otherwise, the etherpad can be hard to figure out who wrote what, if people forget to add their names. </blockquote> In that case maybe we should use this thread as a tracking thread. * list each subject on the first post of this thread *spin off a new thread for each separate subject
  10. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6329 posts
    more options

    John99 said

    In that case maybe we should use this thread as a tracking thread.
    • list each subject on the first post of this thread
    • spin off a new thread for each separate subject

    We already have threads started for the first four subjects. Madelina linked to them. I guess you mean spin off new subjects, like the ones I suggested on guidelines for locking threads or deleting posts, to a new thread? I edited that post to make them separate subjects, #5 and #6.

    I think Madelina wants to consolidate everything in this thread but I'll let her answer.

    ''John99 [[#post-51246|said]]'' <blockquote> In that case maybe we should use this thread as a tracking thread. * list each subject on the first post of this thread *spin off a new thread for each separate subject </blockquote> We already have threads started for the first four subjects. Madelina linked to them. I guess you mean spin off new subjects, like the ones I suggested on guidelines for locking threads or deleting posts, to a new thread? I edited that post to make them separate subjects, #5 and #6. I think Madelina wants to consolidate everything in this thread but I'll let her answer.

    Modified by AliceWyman on

  11. smo
    smo 352 posts
    more options

    John99 said

    madalina, Why not you or one of us open one or better still a series of etherpads for brainstorming this, one as an index/tracker, and linked from that one for each subject.

    +

    ''John99 [[#post-51243|said]]'' <blockquote> madalina, Why not you or one of us open one or better still a series of etherpads for brainstorming this, one as an index/tracker, and linked from that one for each subject. </blockquote> +
  12. Chris Ilias
    Chris Ilias 2449 posts
    more options

    In any cases where moderator action (edit a post, lock a thread, etc.) is required, remember to report it.

    In any cases where moderator action (edit a post, lock a thread, etc.) is required, remember to report it.
  13. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6329 posts
    more options

    AliceWyman said

    5. Locking threads. We need guidelines about when it's appropriate for a moderator to lock a thread. For example, see the 2009 DRAFT guidelines for Forum Moderators post by cww, under "Things you should let an admin handle": 2) Locking threads. If a support thread has completely degenerated, it would be good to lock it so it doesn't get worse. However, this is a delicate decision that should be made on a case-by-case basis.

    Forgot about duplicate threads. When someone posts two threads on the same subject within a short time period, I routinely answer in the second thread that it's a duplicate, link to the original thread and then lock the duplicate. (Related discussion)

    ''AliceWyman [[#post-51238|said]]'' <blockquote> '''5. Locking threads.''' We need guidelines about when it's appropriate for a moderator to lock a thread. For example, see the [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/424567#post-2933 2009 DRAFT guidelines for Forum Moderators post by cww], under "Things you should let an admin handle": ''2) Locking threads. If a support thread has completely degenerated, it would be good to lock it so it doesn't get worse. However, this is a delicate decision that should be made on a case-by-case basis.'' </blockquote> Forgot about duplicate threads. When someone posts two threads on the same subject within a short time period, I routinely answer in the second thread that it's a duplicate, link to the original thread and then lock the duplicate. ([/forums/contributors/708398#post-46909 Related discussion])

    Modified by AliceWyman on

  14. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6329 posts
    more options

    John99 said

    4. Policy on executable links Suggestions: - do not use executable links as there are serious security concerns unless
    •  ?! it is a link posted in another official Mozilla webpage for instance a kb article.
    - as an alternative if appropriate post to an explanatory web page that contains the executable link

    I would add something like this to Mozilla Support rules and guidelines, right after "Users who post forum spam...":

    • Do not post direct links to executable files. Moderators may remove these links to protect others from potentially malicious downloads. (You can post a link to the webpage that contains the file download but it may also be removed, if a moderator determines that the webpage content could be harmful or that the webpage link is spam.)
    ''John99 [[#post-51241|said]]'' <blockquote> 4. [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/708980 Policy on executable links] Suggestions: - do not use executable links as there are serious security concerns '''unless''' *'' ?! it is a link posted in another official Mozilla webpage for instance a kb article.'' ''- as an alternative if appropriate post to an explanatory web page that contains the executable link '' </blockquote> I would add something like this to [[Forum rules and guidelines]], right after "Users who post [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_spam forum spam]...": *Do not post direct links to executable files. Moderators may remove these links to protect others from potentially malicious downloads. (You can post a link to the webpage that contains the file download but it may also be removed, if a moderator determines that the webpage content could be harmful or that the webpage link is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_spam spam].)

    Modified by AliceWyman on

  15. John99
    John99 3665 posts
    more options

    NEW SUBJECTS

    I will edit this later, add a bit more detail, and maybe some links or better examples. Or separate posts within this thread on the topics.

    As I said earlier,this thread is going to get long and messy.

    Disclaimer, some/all of this may be personal opinion, not necessarily consensus (at least until I dig up some more links).

    8 Modertors to ensure actions are recorded
    Chris_Ilias said

    In any cases where moderator action (edit a post, lock a thread, etc.) is required, remember to report it.

    closely related to the above
    9 Moderators where necessary may explain decisions.

    IMHO a matter of courtesy and in the interests of openness, and education. Some examples

    1. Duplicate AAQ threads (also mentioned in subject 7 ) two categories
      1. exact or almost exact duplicates,
        mostly posted in error within a short time period, possibly also an intentional double post.
        Lets get contribs putting in the comments and links.
        Then flag the post.
        A mod may close it, and possibly paste the now existing crosslink into OP first message so it shows in forum listing.
      2. Similar subject.
        IIRC discussed previously, possibly with intention of merging threads. Possibly getting overtaken by events
    2. Mod decides against a flagged request. Explain to requester
      Especially where well meaning, and where the decision may involve some judgement
    3. May be appropriate to explain to the person/thread affected

    10 Procedures if no report button
    ?? (or additional guidance if there is one)

    A couple of examples.

    1. There is probably consensus that buglinks should be in contributors forums, but not in AAQ.
    2. AAQ is single subject, single person requesting help. Contribs forums are discussions, and have automated block quoting

    11 Single Subject per thread (AAQ)

    This is something that if clearly covered in the guidelines contribs can help with. It does not need a mod let alone an admin. We could easily even add a canned response. (Same for the duplicates, although they need reporting for additional mod action )

    12 More mods ?
    Recruiting & Training if necessary

    1. Do we need more moderators ?
    2. How do we recruit and train
      1. I am fairly new to this myself, there is not at present any formal training. But there is some guidance and discussion in the private Mods Forum.
      2. Possibly a lot of this that rare, commodity common sense  ;-)
        added to experience and active use on forums.
        More seriously if you wish to be a mod you need to be thick skinned and diplomatic. Like football referees someone needs to do it but do not expect popularity !
    3. There is probably very little specific to mods. If the forum guidelines are improved and well written that will become a supraset of mod guidelines.
    4. It may be sufficient merely to get contributors
      1. to more actively use the report buttons
      2. get involved with none contentious issues
        reporting duplicates
        posting good links.
        - If an ordinary link is broken, a contrib does not have edit powers, but can add a post with the correct link)
        - if it is a link opening a new KB article report it.
    5. May get covered with karma/kitsune badges maybe a new group senior contributors. Possibly top contributors prefer to answer questions than get involved in moderation and discussions on moderation, but they are on the frontline lets make every thing as easy as possible for them but see if they can help out by reporting infringements and problems.

    13 Use & ettiquete on Eterhpads

    These are in use frequently on forum related situations.

    1. Sumo days, Sumo Meeting Agendas to name just two
    2. Alice alludes to problems when names not added by posters (& some posters have multicolours possibly unnecessarily - sometimes may have needed the change so as to contrast within an edit )
    3. Alternatively/additionally possibly a suitable subject for a KB
    NEW SUBJECTS I will edit this later, add a bit more detail, and maybe some links or better examples. Or separate posts within this thread on the topics. As I said earlier,this thread is going to get long and messy. Disclaimer, some/all of this may be personal opinion, not necessarily consensus (at least until I dig up some more links). ---------------- <u>'''8 Modertors to ensure actions are recorded'''</u><br/> ''Chris_Ilias [[#post-51253|said]]'' <blockquote> In any cases where moderator action (edit a post, lock a thread, etc.) is required, remember to report it. </blockquote> -------------- closely related to the above <br/> <u>'''9 Moderators where necessary may explain decisions.</u>''' IMHO a matter of courtesy and in the interests of openness, and education. Some examples #Duplicate AAQ threads (also mentioned in subject 7 ) two categories ## exact or almost exact duplicates, <br/>mostly posted in error within a short time period, possibly also an intentional double post.<br/> Lets get contribs putting in the comments and links.<br /> Then flag the post.<br/> A mod may close it, and possibly paste the now existing crosslink into OP first message so it shows in forum listing. ##Similar subject. <br/>IIRC discussed previously, possibly with intention of merging threads. Possibly getting overtaken by events #Mod decides against a flagged request. Explain to requester <br/>Especially where well meaning, and where the decision may involve some judgement #May be appropriate to explain to the person/thread affected ----------------- '''<u>10 Procedures if no report button <br />?? (or additional guidance if there is one)'''</u> A couple of examples. #There is probably consensus that buglinks should be in contributors forums, but not in AAQ. #AAQ is single subject, single person requesting help. Contribs forums are discussions, and have automated block quoting ------ <u>'''11 Single Subject per thread (AAQ)'''</u> This is something that if clearly covered in the guidelines contribs can help with. It does not need a mod let alone an admin. We could easily even add a canned response. (Same for the duplicates, although they need reporting for additional mod action ) ------- <u>'''12 More mods ? <br/> Recruiting & Training if necessary'''</u> #Do we need more moderators ? #How do we recruit and train ## I am fairly new to this myself, there is not at present any formal training. But there is some guidance and discussion in the private Mods Forum. ##Possibly a lot of this that rare, commodity common sense ;-) <br/> added to experience and active use on forums.<br />More seriously if you wish to be a mod you need to be thick skinned and diplomatic. Like football referees someone needs to do it but do not expect popularity ! #There is probably very little specific to mods. If the forum guidelines are improved and well written that will become a supraset of mod guidelines. # It may be sufficient merely to get contributors ## to more actively use the report buttons ##get involved with none contentious issues <br /> reporting duplicates <br />posting good links. <br/> - If an ordinary link is broken, a contrib does not have edit powers, but can add a post with the correct link)<br/> - if it is a link opening a new KB article report it. #May get covered with karma/kitsune badges maybe a new group senior contributors. Possibly top contributors prefer to answer questions than get involved in moderation and discussions on moderation, but they are on the frontline lets make every thing as easy as possible for them but see if they can help out by reporting infringements and problems. ----- '''<u>13 Use & ettiquete on Eterhpads</u>''' These are in use frequently on forum related situations. # Sumo days, Sumo Meeting Agendas to name just two #Alice alludes to problems when names not added by posters (& some posters have multicolours possibly unnecessarily - sometimes may have needed the change so as to contrast within an edit ) # Alternatively/additionally possibly a suitable subject for a KB
  16. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6329 posts
    more options

    John99 said

    NEW SUBJECT
    7) Bugzilla links IIRC It has been discussed before. IMHO
    • Normally do not post in the user forums, instead post the bug name and number. Direct links may encourage bug spam
    • in the contributors forums on the other hand if you discuss bugs for instance breaking issues, new features and KB writing at least on first mentioning include the bug link. Contributors may be trusted not to spam bugs, and may often wish to find and read the details in the bug

    I don't think this "rule" is needed. Too many unnecessary rules make it unpleasant to help out in the support forum. I don't want to have to search for a link to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=etiquette.html whenever I post a bugzilla link in the support forum. Besides, bug links are posted in the Firefox release notes and in crash reports, both of which are accessible to users, without an "etiquette" link.

    ''John99 [[#post-51242|said]]'' <blockquote> NEW SUBJECT <br> '''7) Bugzilla links''' IIRC It has been discussed before. IMHO * Normally do not post in the user forums, instead post the bug name and number. Direct links may encourage bug spam ** If a link is posted consider a suitable comment and a link to <br /> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=etiquette.html *in the contributors forums on the other hand if you discuss bugs for instance breaking issues, new features and KB writing at least on first mentioning include the bug link. Contributors may be trusted not to spam bugs, and may often wish to find and read the details in the bug </blockquote> I don't think this "rule" is needed. Too many unnecessary rules make it unpleasant to help out in the support forum. I don't want to have to search for a link to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=etiquette.html whenever I post a bugzilla link in the support forum. Besides, bug links are posted in the [http://www.mozilla.org/firefox/notes Firefox release notes] and in crash reports, both of which are accessible to users, without an "etiquette" link.

    Modified by AliceWyman on

  17. Madasan
    Madasan 1255 posts
    more options

    I think a combination of etherpads + discussions in this thread are the way to go. We just need to organize ourselves so it doesn't get too messy. Let me organize the information we have until now a bit and then I will get back with details how to proceed later today.

    And thanks everybody for your participation in this, this is very valuable.

    I think a combination of etherpads + discussions in this thread are the way to go. We just need to organize ourselves so it doesn't get too messy. Let me organize the information we have until now a bit and then I will get back with details how to proceed later today. And thanks everybody for your participation in this, this is very valuable.

    Modified by Madasan on

  18. John99
    John99 3665 posts
    more options

    AliceWyman said

    John99 said
    NEW SUBJECT
    7) Bugzilla links IIRC It has been discussed before. IMHO
    • Normally do not post in the user forums, instead post the bug name and number. Direct links may encourage bug spam
    • in the contributors forums on the other hand if you discuss bugs for instance breaking issues, new features and KB writing at least on first mentioning include the bug link. Contributors may be trusted not to spam bugs, and may often wish to find and read the details in the bug

    I don't think this "rule" is needed. Too many unnecessary rules make it unpleasant to help out in the support forum. I don't want to have to search for a link to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=etiquette.html whenever I post a bugzilla link in the support forum. Besides, bug links are posted in the Firefox release notes and in crash reports, both of which are accessible to users, without an "etiquette" link.

    • I was under the impression we could have already previously reached consensus on this.
    • canned responses or linked kb s could simplify procedures if necessary.

    I think release notes and crash reports are slightly different, and a totally different paradigm from links in the AAQ forum.

    • some of the release notes buglinks are one level deeper down.They are mainly resolved issues and informative for the more technically minded.
    • again crash reports are I suspect not read by too many users. Those suffering from a particular new crash if technically minded may even be able to contribute meaningfully to the bug, or even file one themselves.
    • I worry just adding bug links for some issues especially breaking issues &/or controversial subjects could result inbug-spam.
    • we can always be more flexible with some guidelines than others others:
      - do not post advertising spam
      - vs - it is normally recommended not to post direct links to bugs in ....
    ''AliceWyman [[#post-51269|said]]'' <blockquote> ''John99 [[#post-51242|said]]'' <blockquote> NEW SUBJECT <br> '''7) Bugzilla links''' IIRC It has been discussed before. IMHO * Normally do not post in the user forums, instead post the bug name and number. Direct links may encourage bug spam ** If a link is posted consider a suitable comment and a link to <br /> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=etiquette.html *in the contributors forums on the other hand if you discuss bugs for instance breaking issues, new features and KB writing at least on first mentioning include the bug link. Contributors may be trusted not to spam bugs, and may often wish to find and read the details in the bug </blockquote> I don't think this "rule" is needed. Too many unnecessary rules make it unpleasant to help out in the support forum. I don't want to have to search for a link to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=etiquette.html whenever I post a bugzilla link in the support forum. Besides, bug links are posted in the [http://www.mozilla.org/firefox/notes Firefox release notes] and in crash reports, both of which are accessible to users, without an "etiquette" link. </blockquote> * I was under the impression we could have already previously reached consensus on this. *canned responses or linked kb s could simplify procedures if necessary. I think release notes and crash reports are slightly different, and a totally different paradigm from links in the AAQ forum. * some of the release notes buglinks are one level deeper down.They are mainly resolved issues and informative for the more technically minded. * again crash reports are I suspect not read by too many users. Those suffering from a particular new crash if technically minded may even be able to contribute meaningfully to the bug, or even file one themselves. *I worry just adding bug links for some issues especially breaking issues &/or controversial subjects could result inbug-spam. * we can always be more flexible with some guidelines than others others: <br/> - do not post advertising spam<br/> - vs - it is normally recommended not to post direct links to bugs in ....
  19. John99
    John99 3665 posts
    more options

    NEW SUBJECT

    14 Posting Sensitive Information
    especially email addresses

    Again something I have mentioned before.

    1. Most importantly we may still have users thinking of AAQ more as a private support ticket.
    2. we have guidelines on sensitive information,that could be deemed to cover e-mail addresses as they are potentially important as identification.
    3. we also allow users profiles to have public emails displaying
    4. IIRC we may have normally specifically banned or at least discouraged these in the past
    5. lets remember the forum is public and indexed in search engines
    6. ?? possibly consider suggestions to mildly obfuscate
    7. personally if public mail not displayed I tend to edit out, addinfo about PM link, and maybe say add back at your own risk
    8. if a similar policy were to be agreed, contributors could deal with this by canned response, with OP making the decision and if necessary editing their own post.

    NB I am trying to keep comments numbered, may make it easier to refer to and discuss comments that way.

    NEW SUBJECT <u>'''14 Posting Sensitive Information <br />especially email addresses'''</u> Again something I have mentioned before. # Most importantly we may still have users thinking of AAQ more as a private support ticket. # we have guidelines on sensitive information,that could be deemed to cover e-mail addresses as they are potentially important as identification. #we also allow users profiles to have public emails displaying #IIRC we may have normally specifically banned or at least discouraged these in the past #lets remember the forum is public and indexed in search engines #?? possibly consider suggestions to mildly obfuscate # personally if public mail not displayed I tend to edit out, addinfo about PM link, and maybe say add back at your own risk # if a similar policy were to be agreed, contributors could deal with this by canned response, with OP making the decision and if necessary editing their own post. NB I am trying to keep comments numbered, may make it easier to refer to and discuss comments that way.
  20. Madasan
    Madasan 1255 posts
    more options

    Hi guys,

    I have created an etherpad that lists all the proposed topics related to forum guidelines. My suggestion is that we continue the discussion here but we keep the etherpad in order to track what we have discussed/decided until now. The reason why I want to keep the conversation in one place is because independent threads will easily get lost in the pool of threads that we have on the contributors forum. We will never be able to keep track or finalize this especially because a lot of them are interlinked. The whole idea behind this discussion is to finalize a new series of guidelines for people using the support forum and clarify the moderators' job and processes.

    In order for the discussion not to get too messy my suggestion in the following:

    We will discuss each topic one by one. I will edit the title of the thread and the first post with the name of the topic we are currently discussing each time. Once a topic is finalized we cross it off the list, mark it as "DONE" and move to the next one (I then change the title of the thread to the next topic).

    Everybody please add to the Forum guidelines etherpad any other topics they will like to talk about. These need to be related to dealing with the support forum only, we will not deal with contributor forums or KB guidelines yet, first we need to get this one done properly.

    If this looks good we can start by discussing edit~j99

    1. the first topic: "Foreign threads in the support forum". Madalina marked etherpad as done
    2. the second topic Support Forum etiquette and user assurance/escalation - NOW IN DISCUSSION!
      Madalina's post & this
    Hi guys, I have created an [https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-guidelines etherpad] that lists all the proposed topics related to forum guidelines. My suggestion is that we continue the discussion here but we keep the [https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-guidelines etherpad] in order to track what we have discussed/decided until now. The reason why I want to keep the conversation in one place is because independent threads will easily get lost in the pool of threads that we have on the contributors forum. We will never be able to keep track or finalize this especially because a lot of them are interlinked. The whole idea behind this discussion is to finalize a new series of guidelines for people using the support forum and clarify the moderators' job and processes. In order for the discussion not to get too messy my suggestion in the following: '''We will discuss each topic one by one.''' I will edit the title of the thread and the first post with the name of the topic we are currently discussing each time. Once a topic is finalized we cross it off the list, mark it as "DONE" and move to the next one (I then change the title of the thread to the next topic). Everybody please add to the [https://etherpad.mozilla.org/forum-guidelines Forum guidelines etherpad] any other topics they will like to talk about. These need to be related to '''dealing with the support forum only''', we will not deal with contributor forums or KB guidelines yet, first we need to get this one done properly. If this looks good we can start by discussing <sub> edit~j99</sub> # the first topic: <s>"Foreign threads in the support forum". </s> <sub>Madalina marked etherpad as done </sub> # the second topic ''Support Forum etiquette and user assurance/escalation - NOW IN DISCUSSION! '' <br/> Madalina's [/forums/contributors/709033?page=2#post-51433 post] & [/forums/contributors/709033?page=3 this]

    Modified by John99 on

  1. 1
  2. 2
  3. 3
  4. 4
  5. 5
  6. 6
  7. 7
  8. 8