SUMO community discussions
I have created a couple of bugs to generate some traction on this:
Modified by Ibai on
this looks like a great start. it can be tweaked as we figure out what affects it has, maybe locking some things sooner, or not!
I guess we also want to make sure to have some specific metrics to look at. I'm not sure if that's been discussed. But we do want to measure how helpful the open threads are. That'll be key to deciding how much more can be locked and how soon.
I think we should also ping on old threads, find an average amount of time that people are still waiting for help.
Modified by Kensie on
For the record, Cww started a similar discussion on this topic (and posted a link to the bug 680924 he filed) back in August 2011:
That's the problem with these discussions. We tend to re-invent the wheel every 6 months or so!
AliceWyman said
For the record, Cww started a similar discussion on this topic (and posted a link to the bug 680924 he filed) back in August 2011:That's the problem with these discussions. We tend to re-invent the wheel every 6 months or so!
- https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/707526 Should we auto-lock threads older than 3 months?
I don't necessarily agree. We know that we need wheels but we don't build them ;) The proposal from Cww at that time and the actual proposal is pretty similar. We just need to execute on things like this that are recurrent. Fortunately it seems that we are getting some traction now.
Am I missing something ?
Kadir Topal [:atopal] 2012-02-24 11:08:51 GMT
Putting this on the radar for 2012.5
Priority: -- → P2
Whiteboard: u=contributor c=questions s=2012.5 p=
A thread owner PM'ed me after I marked his question solved and locked the thread - see https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/887248?page=3#answer-326213
I then got a PM from John99 asking, Does thread locking now hide posts! if so I suspect something has gone wrong with the recent SUMO changes. (I doubt that you would have any reason to deliberately delete/hide the thread) ... with a link to this related discussion.
The /questions/887248 thread disappeared from the Support Forum "My contributions" list after I locked it and reappeared when I unlocked it. Is this intended?
Modified by AliceWyman on
Here's the bug report on this (thanks, Kadir)
Any progress on the closing threads over 6 months old (without hiding them !)
We have a circular argument on the bugs
So it would appear any action on this has ceased.
The newer bug is only marked as a dupe of the older bug, bug 680924 is still open, but last action was Feb.
Sorry I was wrong about the older bug being marked as a duplicate.
Yes I can see that the older bug is still open and has not had any recent action. That older bug was initially penciled in for the 2012.5 sprint. I was hoping someone may have been able to comment on it getting back into the sprints or why it has been dropped.
Bug 680924 - Auto-lock threads in the support forum (questions) after some time was resolved fixed on June 25, 2012.
Looks like threads for support questions created more than 180 days ago are now locked even though they have recent replies. I did an advanced search and here's a list of locked threads created before Jan 1, 2012 that have been "updated" since June 24th (note that "updates" can mean edits as well as replies):
P.S. There's a related discussion on locked threads, currently going on here:
Modified by AliceWyman on
So anyone wish to explain what is happening now.
That was not what the initial bug was for the description including conditions:
I'd like to lock threads when they match all of the below conditions:I did attempt to do a check for locked questions updated in the past 60 days but maxed out at 1000, and presumably that would also attempt to pick up the 160k autolocked questions. I also ask in an adjacent thread about the moderator locked threads, as I am concerned about the proposed tag stripping for all such threads, whatever the reason for the locking.
- >180 days after when it was asked
- No answers in the past 60 days
- < 5 "I have this problem too" votes in the past 30 days
John99 said
That was not what the initial bug was for the description including conditions:I'd like to lock threads when they match all of the below conditions:
- >180 days after when it was asked
- No answers in the past 60 days
- < 5 "I have this problem too" votes in the past 30 days
Cww changed the conditions in bug 680924 comment 16:
[:Cww] 2012-06-20 15:09:43 PDT
Sorry if I wasn't clear: Let's do the lock everything started over 6 months ago. From comment 10, it sounds like it's just a cron job so we can modify it with more criteria on what to lock and not-lock in the future.
Thanks Alice,
I have now read all the bug comments, thanks for the clarification.
I am glad we have made progress on this at last :-)
I wonder if there will now be discussion on the tweaking ?
Hi everyone, sorry for not posting here first before we made the change. We went with 180 days for now and as cww said, it's a cron job, so we can adjust that behavior at any time. The reason to close threads even if they had recent replies is that very rarely anything good comes from a comment on a 9 Month old question. On the other hand, a lot of old questions get picked up and moved to the top of the forum listing and we can't even properly help that person posting, because we only collect information for the first poster. Then begins a back and forth with that person and at that point the thread becomes hard to follow for anyone else.
In addition, we moved to the 6 week release cycle, if we keep letting people reply to old threads the thread starter might have had an issue with Firefox 10, but the new poster might be using Firefox 15. However, since we don't collect data for anyone but the first poster we wouldn't know about that.
One way to see if this was a good change would be to see if the rate of questions goes up, while the rate of solved threads stays constant, because people still get to post their question, and we can solve it now, because we have all the data and it's not tacked on on another thread. The issue with that is that both of those metrics, the question rate and the solved rate, are highly volatile and dependent on effects we have no influence over.
So, I'd propose the following: If we see a sharp drop in overall posts, but no uptake in new questions, we know that we are losing those people that would've posted before. In that case we can start making changes to the forum. I already filed a bug to lead people to the "Ask a question" process on closed threads: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=770108
What are your thoughts?
Hi Kadir,
The original description of the bug gave three conditions, like John99 pointed out (>180 days after when it was asked, No answers in the past 60 days < 5 "I have this problem too" votes in the past 30 days) ... but only the first was addressed. The bug description also said, "IDEALLY display a message at the top: "This thread is out of date and possibly not relevant. Please [search for a newer one] or [ask a new question]." ... and that wasn't done either.
Having such a message (if it's still being considered) is OK for people who find the old thread and can't post in it because it is locked but it doesn't help someone who found a thread that is, lets say, 175 days old and posts in it, or for others who are watching the thread waiting for replies.
Shouldn't there be a message generated to everyone watching the now-locked thread, to say that it has been closed to further replies and that anyone still needing help should ask a new question?
I went through this list of locked threads created before January 1, 2012 with "updates" after June 24, 2012. Some were edits by moderators to remove spam, some just posted a "thank you", some were more suggestions for what would fix the problem, but some were actually requests for help.
Here is a copy of what I've been sending out for threads in the last category, so that anyone who might be waiting for help would ask a new question (the first sentence could be deleted, so that the message could also apply to those who are watching the thread and waiting for a solution)
When you posted a reply to this thread recently, you were replying to a question that was asked over six months ago.
This thread was locked because of a new feature just added to the Support Forum, that automatically locks a thread if it was originally created over 180 days in the past.
If you need help with Firefox you should ask a new question. You can use this link as a starting point: https://support.mozilla.org/questions/new
Modified by AliceWyman on
The bug to put a message in should definitely in my opinion require inclusion of a link for starting a question not just the instruction to start a new question. (edit - just looked again the bug is to add a button )
Tacking a message on the end of the thread as Alice suggests also seems a good solution, perhaps both these methods should be used.
Additionally, is it worth also including a link to the locked thread ?
The link may be copied and pasted if anyone needs to refer back to the thread. I know contributors will not have a problem, but some who find an old thread from a search engine may wish to mention it in their new question and may not otherwise know how to cross link. If we do that we should specifically mention that the link can be copied, and so should probably make it easy and obvious by using the full URL.
Possibly consider additional large buttons on locked threads
However any such option, depending on how it is implemented, could have a severe downside of making it too easy to post without going through the current AAQ process. Maybe this is something to consider in the future when we think we can cope with more support questions.
The next forum priority will be increasing the number of solved answers, as we seem well on the way to responding to 100% questions.
Modified by John99 on
John99 said
Tacking a message on the end of the thread as Alice suggests also seems a good solution, perhaps both these methods should be used.
What I suggested was,
Shouldn't there be a message generated to everyone watching the now-locked thread, to say that it has been closed to further replies and that anyone still needing help should ask a new question?.
When a thread is automatically locked because of age, we should automatically include a generated message that goes out by e-mail to everyone watching the thread. The generated e-mail should link to the locked thread for reference, should explain that the thread has been closed to further replies and should link to the "ask a question" page, where the person can ask a new question if he still needs help.
P.S. I filed bug 770136 with a link back to this discussion.
Modified by AliceWyman on
AliceWyman said
John99 saidTacking a message on the end of the thread as Alice suggests also seems a good solution, perhaps both these methods should be used.What I suggested was,
Shouldn't there be a message generated to everyone watching the now-locked thread, ....
P.S. I filed bug 770136 with a link back to this discussion.
I was also thinking about users visiting the thread from a search engine. We do know the vast majority of visitors do not post they just read the threads.
If Alice's idea is implemented as a final posting the message can be emailed, and also be seen by visitors who did not post in the thread.
John99 said
If Alice's idea is implemented as a final posting the message can be emailed, and also be seen by visitors who did not post in the thread.
I don't want a message to be added to the thread as a final posting, when old threads are automatically locked, if it would would bump the thread.
