SUMO community discussions
For example, when there are threads about Firefox 4.0 being the worst version ever or sucks (currently), the actually helpful replies get marked not helpful and the rants get marked helpful.
Yeah, that's an obvious issue of the system. Since those threads are of no use for people who are looking for solutions we should find a way, to decrease their impact. I don't want to go down the road of deleting those threads, but we could for example add a "flag as spam" button. With enough clicks the thread would be hidden. How does that sounds to you?
Kadir, what's wrong with deleting obvious spam or trolling/ranting questions and answers? As you say, they're of no use.
We already have an "Report Abuse" for questions and answers. There does not seem to be any flagged content awaiting moderation.
Well, those people are usually already frustrated Firefox users. They didn't use the system in the intended way, but not intentionally. Just deleting their posts will very likely enrage them further for no good reason. I guess if we can keep the usability of the site without offending users we should try that.
Kadir, I ageree, many such threads will be started by or include posts by frustrated users looking for solutions. As James said, some of the posts will probably try to address the problem, and provide information that should help. I know I sometimes try to add information to such threads if an obvious solution is not being mentioned.
The Norton toolbar is also the other hot topic that this can happen with also. Some people just do not want to even believe anything in the links to threads onNorton forum, where employees said it was their doing and still blame Mozilla for the 4.0 and 4.0.1 versions disabling the toolbar in frusration.
I have seen members like TonyE trying to help in the Norton toolbar threads and the Firefox 4.0 rant threads and yet his helpful replies has very little if any Helpful numbers while the ranters have almost all as Helpful.
When these Firefox 4.0 suck threads just get out of hand, I think it would be best to lock it and give a link to the page for current 3.6.* since that would answer one of two most common posts in those threads (since the ranters often over look the first few helpful replies). The other is the thread being a place for the ranters to vent at Mozilla over and over regardless whether they can easily fix whatever problem(s) they are having.
The Helpful buttons are ok when the thread is actually going smoothly. I just wonder if it can be done so the mods/admins can edit thread to turn off the Helpful buttons when they get misused.
Modified by James on
What about adding, an optional category:
or something similar that only moderators can use. Such an answer could then be displayed at the top regardles of whether the thread is locked or marked solved.
Certainly at present the buttons are getting effectivly misused in some threads. Just locking a thread may not solve the problem , someone else could easily just restart a similar thread, if those in turn are locked there is then an increasing number of threads with no answers, and frustrated users no doubt questioning why we are being heavy handed and apparently censoring valid criticism and assitance requests.
Another problem mentioned elsethread (Adding the ability for moderators to mark threads as solved? ... ) is the low percentage of threads that get markd as solved despite any recent changes.
I would say the helpful/not helpful in present form is well, not helpful.
The karma metric that's taking form at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Support/Kitsune/Karma could be used to provide "perks" based on demonstrated experience level that would form a sort of "soft moderation": Tier 1:
Tier 2
Tier 3
Mark solutions as "best" solution if there is more than one answer that solves the problem.
At present there is no such category category, as best (or expert ) also does it now limit the displayed other helpful answers to two ?
Tier 3 Mark own answers as "expert" answers. Mark own answers as "solutions"
Presumably a user can only currently mark there own answers if logged out,
I'm just an occasional passerby who is about to disappear because of other commitments. In so many cases a thread has just died with my last answer without feedback of any sort - no comment, no question, no complaint. There is no one around to press any buttons.
I know you will all be familiar with this. I know that in some cases I've been helpful to the point of solving the problem. In other cases I'm sure I've been helpful to some degree but have had no idea to what degree I've helped on the specific problem. Helpful and Not Helpful registrations are eccentric to say the least.
In two recent cases in trolling threads I've strongly suggested that genuine enquirers start a new thread. This is one way to handler the trollers - just starve out their threads after a proper professional effort to help.
My compliments to the real experts on this Forum(you know who you are) for your expertise and hard work. I've tried to specialize in looking for the easy solution, sometimes overlooked, but I've learned quite a bit rubbing shoulders with the experts.
Meanwhile, as I've noted in a few threads(to encourage the doubters) my Fx4.0.1 is working beautifully and looking good.
Goodbye for the time being and the best of luck. Keep up the good work.
alan_r Alan R Taylor, Sydney, Australia
Modified by alan_r on
This situation has been discussed before. I think the overall problem is that the Helpful button works in two different ways; when the Owner is logged in, it toggles to Solved and when the Owner is not logged in (or someone else uses Helpful) the Helpful button is the Helpful button.
IMO, the first thing to do is to fix the "cookies thing" so that users don't have to login every time they view their forum thread. It seems that if the web browser used when logged in here is closed there is no persistence for being logged in - the user isn't recognized; but if anyone returns to this forum with not having closed the web browser they are still logged in. I think what happens is that Owners are responding to an email notification that an answer was posted to their thread, they see an answer that solved their problem and click the Helpful button- but they aren't logged in and the thread isn't marked as Solved, but as Helpful.
Also, some moderator/contributor who is here everyday for more that a few minutes should be given their own Solved button so that they can mark some of these threads as Solved when the owner has responded and said "Thank you, that solved my question". The old forum software had that automatically for all moderators.
As of this morning, the Solved stats vs total number of postings for 4 contributors:
TonyE = 11.1%
the-edmeister = 8.0%
Xircal = 7.9%
cor-el = 6.7%
I only did the stats for the 1st four listed in the Top Contributors - Most Solutions this Week - at the time I did these calculations, where it was easiest to get the numbers from recently active threads on the first two pages of threads. No slight intended for anyone who might have higher stats.
I'd be willing to bet that the true percentage's are double to triple those figures, especially for cor-el.
This is what a user sees when signed in:
The email reply doesn't mention clicking Solved It, so if a user isn't logged in then they miss that button.
You can use the link below to access the response. While
you're there, please let us know if this was helpful to you.
This helps other Firefox users find good answers to their
support questions. You can also reply to xxxx
or add more information about your question from that page.
Modified by cor-el on
@cor-el
When did that Solved It button start appearing? A recent forum update? And, I assume that only shows for the Owner?
https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/forums/contributors/704952?last=36015&page=2
On March 7th cww said "A quick point: the owner sees the same things you do: it says "helpful" vs "not helpful". However if the owner (while logged in) clicks helpful, it marks the thread as solved. If that's not working, it's probably because the owner isn't logged in. "
As far as I know then that Solved It button has always been there. The response from ccw may have been confusing as it doesn't mention that the label text changed as well. The Helpful and Not Helpful buttons disappear and the Solved It button appears instead of it.
cor-el said
As far as I know then that Solved It button has always been there. The response from ccw may have been confusing as it doesn't mention that the label text changed as well. The Helpful and Not Helpful buttons disappear and the Solved It button appears instead of it.
The comment above starting "Cor-el said . . .As far as I know . . ." is not from me - alan_r ; it just appeared when I went to post a reply.
As I've mentioned in my earlier post, there are so many cases, probably often solved, where the owner just doesn't come back with thanks, questions, complaints etc and certainly not to push buttons. alan_r
Are there any glitches with the new SUMO2.8.4 that could cause posts to not appear, or get switched between threads ?
I can not be absolutely certain, but suspect some posts I have attempted to make may have disappeared on the support forum, and on this forum, another user also mentions a possible problem, some of it could all be coincidence and user error.
But until a few moments ago I could see that users post, and his name under filtered as my contributions, relating to post made by Ian on Modified May 24, 2011 6:22:05 AM PDT by IanSeale https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/811150?page=3#answer-187860 showing as 1 Hour ago with my own post below it made 26Minutes ago. https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/811150?page=3#answer-187874 only becoming visible once the thread was opened.
However looking at forum filtered my contributions, now and refreshing that, it looks ok. Is there some lag or problem somewhere. Ian comments in his post about apparently a post he made not appearing.
John99 said
Are there any glitches with the new SUMO2.8.4 that could cause posts to not appear, or get switched between threads ?
SUMO 2.8.4 will go out in a few minutes. It's not in production yet.
Sometimes caching can be aggressive, especially around new objects, like forum posts or questions. This is a limitation of how our current caching library works and while we're aware of it, it's not the highest priority—it's a difficult problem without a huge practical benefit.
Thanks for the reply.
I am not much concerned about whether or not any posts are immediately visible, and threads updated. I was more concerned that I thought some had actually disappeared.
Cor-el, the-edmeister: It's an issue indeed that people are not logged-in and don't even know they should log-in. That's why I filed this bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=657307 People shouldn't need to log-in just to give us feedback.
