POP is doing what you want, downloading all messages. That's what it does.

Hi David,

POP is not doing what I want. I want it to download emails that have not been archived, just as it does not download deleted emails.

Art

I am not the expert on this, but I think your challenge is that you use Gmail, which does not have specific folders. As such, all mail that hasn't been deleted is subject to the POP download. If using another account, where the messages were physically transferred to another folder, there might not be a problem. And, maybe someone else here has a workaround. Good luck. :)

Thanks for the responses. My understanding (could be wrong) Gmail uses labels instead of folders.

I am hoping someone else might provide some assistance also.

Art

POP accounts can only access the server Inbox and download whatever is in the server Inbox into the Pop account Inbox. There is no synchronisation between any Pop folder or any server folder. So if the emails are in the server Inbox when you start up Thunderbird on the desktop, then it will download whatever is in server Inbox at that time. Pop accounts store emails on your computer usually in mbox text files where emails are written to the file one after the other. These files are completely independent of the server. When emails are downloaded, a record is kept in a 'popstate.dat' file. That means the next time Pop account accesses server Inbox, it will not download anything previously downloaded.

IMAP accounts operate in a different way. All imap folders synchronise with server folders and can only display whatever is on the server. Even if you choose to download full copies into the mbox files; which can used to create a backup, you cannot believe those mbox files are truelly independent copies because they synchronise with the server.

Webmail: Gmail stores all emails - incoming, sent, archived - everything in one location called 'All Mail'. Gmail understands this is completely useless for general use, so gmail invented 'labels'. Labels are just a form of a tag which gets applied to the emails in the 'All Mail' folder thus allowing an email to be seen in whatever label has that name. It therefore looks like a more normal 'folder' type structure eg: Inbox, Sent Mail, Spam, etc. It also means more than one label can be applied to a single email, thus allowing it to display in more than one 'label' folder. When an email is archived, gmail simply removes all 'labels', so email is still in same location in the 'All Mail' but has no labels. That's a real pain if you want to find anything archived. Personally, I created a 'label' called 'Archived', then at least I can find stuff I've archived. It's so much easier to locate a load of old archived mail and choose to delete them than try to find them in the 'All Mail' folder.

POP account: If you delete an email in a Pop account, it's impossible to put that email into the Gmail server Trash folder as there is no synchronisation between a Pop account and the server. If Pop Inbox is compacted then it's possible the settings may inform the server to stop displaying in Inbox. In other words, gmail reads this as remove the Inbox label and archive. Gmail does not delete anything deleted in a Pop account. If you 'Archive' an email in a Pop account, the emails is moved into an 'Archives' folder. You would compact the Pop Inbox to remove old traces of moved or deleted emails. These folders are independent of server, so moving or deleting any email has no effect on the server.

IMAP account: When using the IMAP account, if you delete an email, then it should auto get put into the gmail Trash folder and because there is full synchronisation, gmail understands it's been deleted and therefore will delete the stored email from the 'All MAil' folder. If you click on 'Archive' then gmail automatically reads this as 'remove all labels', so email disappears from all folders it was previously displaying in, but keep in 'All Mail'. But...that's assuming you have not created an 'Archive' foldre/label like me. Otherwise it will apply the 'label' 'Archive' and make a visible view of email in Archive.

re :POP is not doing what I want. I want it to download emails that have not been archived, just as it does not download deleted emails.

If it's not downloading emails that are new in server Inbox and are still in server Inbox, then there is a problem. If emails are in server Inbox' then they have not been archived.

Senario: If you allow the Pop account to access the server first, it will download whatever is in the Inbox that has no been downloaded previously.

If you access the Imap account first and choose to delete some emails from Inbox and maybe 'Archive' some older emails from Inbox - how does this effect what is downloaded to Pop ?

It depends - If you have new emails since Pop last accessed server, then they have not been downloaded to Pop at this point. If you delete or move any of those 'new' emails out of the Inbox, then when Pop does get access - it will not be able to download anything 'new' that you have moved out of the Inbox.

However, if you are deleting and archiving mail that's not new, you've had it a while, so it's likely those emails have already been previously downloaded to the Pop account. Then that will have no effect on the Pop account. It cannot synchronise with server Inbox because it's a Pop account.

Hope this information helps.

But you need to clarify this statement "I want it to download emails that have not been archived,"

If they have 'not been archived' then in theory they are in the imap Inbox folder and also in the webmail account 'Inbox'. Are those emails in the gmail imap Inbox and webmail Inbox? Or have you moved them into another folder for organising ?

If they have no been previously downloaded to the Pop account, then are you saying nothing is downloading to the Pop account?

Thanks for the great explanation.

Here is what happens and I believe your reply explains it:

POP is on my desktop and the permanent email storage. IMAP is on my laptop and temporarily allows me to access emails when I’m traveling. Webmail is Apple Mail on my iPhone (do I have that right?) and temporarily allows me to access emails when I’m traveling. Gmail is the server, holding all my emails.

If I read an email in IMAP first, POP downloads it. If I read an email in webmail first, POP downloads it. If I read an email in POP first, IMAP and webmail do not download it. This works great because IMAP and webmail allow me to read/reply/delete new emails while traveling and the read/reply mail winds up on my desktop when I get home. The deleted emails remain deleted, roll off the server, and do not download with POP.

The issue is archive. I view archive as emails I do not need in POP, similar to deleted emails, but I want them to remain on the server instead of rolling off as deleted emails do.

When I archive an email in IMAP or webmail first, POP downloads it, clogging up my inbox with emails I read already but decided are not needed.

I was hoping I could archive in IMAP and webmail but not download it in POP.

Art

Thanks for the great explanation. Here is what happens and I believe your reply explains it: POP is on my desktop and the permanent email storage.

Correct - Pop full downloads are a completely independent copy on your computer. But POP only downloads new emails that have not been downloaded previously.

IMAP is on my laptop and temporarily allows me to access emails when I’m traveling.

IMAP is a protocol used by email clients to access server accounts in order to see, read, send emails. Thunderbird is an email Client, other examples are Apple Mail, EM Client, Mailbird, Outlook, etc. They are programs installed on device (laptop, desktop, phone) that faciliate access to emails by creating mail accounts to use either POP or IMAP protocols.

When travelling, it's not always so easy to access mail via Pop or IMAP. Hotels etc generally allow access to internet, but do not necessarlly allow access to use specific ports via their network. So a laptop just using IMAP might have issues, but access via webmail may be ok. Gmail can get funny about travelling especially abroad due to the changing of expected IP addresses. They can temp block access to accounts as they think you might be a hacker.

But as internet access is generally available, obtaining webmail access to gmail account directly via a browser should work.

Webmail is Apple Mail on my iPhone (do I have that right?) and temporarily allows me to access emails when I’m traveling.

Webmail is accessed via a browser eg: Firefox, directly to the gmail webpage logon to account. This method can be used when travelling as it just needs internet.

'Apple Mail' is an email client and uses Pop or Imap to access server. You would create a mail account to access server, just the same as using Thunderbird. It's not accessing the webmail account. It's accessing the gmail server via IMAP or Pop depending upon what you set up. I suspect it's using IMAP as that shows all the folders and emails held on the gmail server.

Gmail is the server, holding all my emails.

Correct. All IMAP accounts require all folders and emails to be stored on the server. The Imap account is like seeing the webmail account via a third party app, so you can view more than one mail account /email address in one location rather than logging separately onto various webpages.

If I read an email in IMAP first, POP downloads it.

Providing the 'read' email is still in the imap 'Inbox' then it's also in server 'Inbox', so Pop will download it when it accesses server Inbox.

If I read an email in webmail first, POP downloads it.

Providing the 'read' email is still in the server Inbox then Pop will download it when it accesses server Inbox.

If I read an email in POP first, IMAP and webmail do not download it.

Not quite correct.

IMAP Inbox will synchronise with server Inbox - that means the email client that has the Imap account communicates with server using imap protocol in order to download a copies of emails to the Imap Inbox folder to facilitate viewing. IMAP is a sort of mirror copy stored on your computer, but what it shows is only whatever is on the server.

Webmail is the direct view accessed via a browser logged directly onto the gmail account. It is the gmail repository for your emails. You are in effect seeing the server directly. It does not download anything.

This works great because IMAP and webmail allow me to read/reply/delete new emails while traveling and the read/reply mail winds up on my desktop when I get home. The deleted emails remain deleted, roll off the server, and do not download with POP.

Yes. If you delete emails via an Imap account or directly via webmail account, then they are not in the 'Inbox', so later on POP will access server Inbox and cannot download something that does not exist.

However, please note that any emails you send or reply to via Imap or Webmail, will not be in the 'Inbox' they will be in the server 'Sent Mail' folder, so can only be accessed via Imap or Webmail. Pop accounts will not have access to those particular 'sent' emails.

The issue is archive. I view archive as emails I do not need in POP, similar to deleted emails, but I want them to remain on the server instead of rolling off as deleted emails do. When I archive an email in IMAP or webmail first, POP downloads it, clogging up my inbox with emails I read already but decided are not needed. I was hoping I could archive in IMAP and webmail but not download it in POP.

Gmail - archive means emails you still want to keep, but do not want to appear in any label. So archiving means 'remove all labels' and store in 'All Mail'. Email is no longer visible in Inbox. It's only visible in 'All Mail'.

If it's an older email you are archiving, then Pop will have downloaded it previously. So the Archive in webmail or Imap has no effect on a POP account. If it's a brand new email, then archiving seems a bit odd as most people will move it into another suitably named folder so it's easy to find eg: a label/folder called 'Family' or 'Friends' or 'Bills' etc or delete it or put it in Spam.

If you really are 'Archiving' a newly received email then it will be removed from all folders and it will only be located in the server 'All Mail' folder. If you then launch Thunderbird on desktop as it uses POP, it's impossible to download something that does not exist in the server Inbox.

So if email is shown in Pop Inbox, then either it was an older email already downloaded to Pop when you decided to archive it using imap or webmail OR you have not archived the email - it's still in the server Inbox.

Query: In Imap or Webmail account : Are you archiving an older email which you no longer want to see in Inbox or any label/folder ? If yes, it's likely this email was previously downloaded to POP, so archiving in IMAP or Webmail will have no effect on POP account. You will continue to see it in the Pop account. POP accounts are not synchronising with server, that's the point of POP - it's totally independent of server.

Or are you archiving a brand new just received email and you have not started up the Thunderbird POP account so at this point it's only on the server?

When you view emails via either IMAP or Webmail and decide to 'Archive' an email, that email should only be accessible/seen in the gmail 'All Mail' folder, but you may need to wait before launching the POP account just to be sure the imap account has communicated with server OR if done in webmail account then it's already done on server.

Whilst an imap folder can resynch all emails in a folder as it synchronises with server, a POP account does not do that, it just looks for emails in server Inbox not previously downloaded and downloads only those emails. If email was removed from the Inbox to any other imap folder then it's impossible for a Pop account to download something that does not exist.

Let the education continue!

I understand webmail now. I rarely use webmail, i.e. accessing Gmail directly. I prefer using Thunderbird for POP on my desktop, Thunderbird IMAP on my laptop, and Apple mail for iPhone. Make sense? I tend to avoid signing on to Gmail directly. There is no need. Thunderbird and Apple Mail work well. I rarely encounter issues when traveling.

However, please note that any emails you send or reply to via Imap or Webmail, will not be in the 'Inbox' they will be in the server 'Sent Mail' folder, so can only be accessed via Imap or Webmail. Pop accounts will not have access to those particular 'sent' emails.

I agree. I bcc myself on emails I send or reply via IMAP so I am sure to have it in my POP inbox.

Query: In Imap or Webmail account : Or are you archiving a brand new just received email and you have not started up the Thunderbird POP account so at this point it's only on the server?

Exactly. I use Apple Mail to set emails to archive for brand new just received emails that I have not started up in Thunderbird POP. Those archived Apple Mails download in POP, again my main issue because I do not want them to download.

I really appreciate all this help and the education.

Thanks. Art