SORRY! I checked the rev. level loaded here. It is T-BIRD 60.3.0

This PC is a H-P desktop w/ WINDOWS 7 HOME set to automatically update from MICROSOFT. It is loaded with SPYBOT, MICROSOFT SECURITY ESSENTIALS, CCLEANER (auto-update) & MALAWAREBYTES anti-malware, etc. programs. I also use FIREFOX, and it's running the latest version.

I wish that MOZILLA wouldn't automatically upgrade. I was satisfied using ver 52.nnnn, even with the annoying editing quirks that are so profound.

a) We are not Mozilla

b) Every major software source offers automatic updates, for a variety of reasons: bug fixes (OK, maybe not for you, but for someone else who needs it), security fixes, supporting new hardware, supporting changed, updated and new OS, to workaround OS problems, etc.

If we didn't supply updates then users would complain. So between in choosing between users who might complain about not updating vs users who might complain about doing updates, we choose to favor the former.

I've seen the issue you mention reported before, and it was caused by an add-on

Isn't that interesting! the link clearly states:

https//support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/ .........

MUST BE a different MOZILLA. Sorry I related the two entities!

When I went to the tab, Tools/Add-On Options, it showed that there are NO add-ons loaded.

Petri_Dish said

Isn't that interesting! the link clearly states: https//support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/ ......... MUST BE a different MOZILLA. Sorry I related the two entities!

You're right, and completely understandable. Mozilla is plastered all over the place. But this is just a support service that they provide for us.

SFHOWES: OK!, So I've started T-BIRD in SAFE MODE. I sent an e-mail to several friends, and for each e-mail address AFTER setting the first one at Bcc:, I had to go back to RESET the subsequent e-mail addresses as Bcc: The upshot is that your suggestion, while I understand was meant to be a valid solution has NOT produced the desired result. This version of T-Bird is 60.3.0, and there are NO "Add-ons" installed, since as I reported earlier, the list of add-ons was null. At this point, I think the BEST solution is to give me the instructions how to re-load Ver. 52.nnnn, and be done with it, since it seems that Ver. 60 has a fatal flaw in my situation. Finally, in this recent set of exchanges regarding this problem, I also mentioned to the tech people with whom I've conversed that it is unfortunate that MOZILLA unilaterally downloaded this Ver. 60 upgrade. I was berated by the Tech in response, claiming that y'all have been criticized from users on both sides of this issue. The criticism that was put forward was that EVERY other software vendor automatically downloads upgrades. Well, that is patently false. Just today, I received a notice from MICROSOFT alerting me that Updates to WINDOWS is available WITH the option to proceed. I get similar notices from SPYBOT, from CCLEANER (for which I have a paid subscription) and from MALAWAREBYTES for their malware program. Other applications that I use (PLC-programming editors, etc.) are available through their sponsors' websites on an as-needed basis. Thank you.

sfhowes, You directed me to force TB to start in SAFE MODE, which I did. But, I got caught up in all the excitement so to speak that I failed to relate two additional pieces of information. First, after doing that, and mentioning that there are NO "add-ons" in the list, I FAILED to also tell you that NOW the ADDRESS LISTS do not appear on the left side of the text-entry screen area. Furthermore, when sending an e-mail to multiple addresses, even AFTER defining the first address as Bcc:, it does NOT continue with the Bcc: mode, but reverts to the "To:" mode. So, I'm NOT at all sure where we go from here. By the way, when I started this PC today, I got an alert from WINDOWS that there were several "updates" to be applied. Thinking that these are security-related, I let them process to completion.

I can tell you one thing ..... we sure didn't have these problems 50+ years ago when I was dealing with stacks & stacks of Hollerith cards, being fed into the hopper on our mainframe computers!! The ONLY problems we had was making sure that we didn't drop the cards all over the floor!!!! Aaaah!, the good ol' days of FORTRAN programming!!!!

Thank you!!!

THANX!!! I just checked the settings in CCLEANER, under "Applications" and there was NOTHING checked off for THUNDERBIRD. There is a couple of items for FIREFOX, but they deal ONLY with cookies & history items, nothing more.

I DO truly appreciate all your assistance on this stubborn problem, but it just MAY be that there's something else going on here far deeper than meets the eye which will tie up your resources for a long time.

I had a similar problem several years ago with an editor for a particular PLC controller family. I had 3 DIFFERENT PCs, running various versions of XP (either the PRO or the HOME version). In the middle of editing a Ladder program, a window would pop up stating that the editor had "developed a problem", and WINDOWS would shut it down. There was NO escape hatch. IF I hadn't save my edits to the program, I would have lost them. This occurred on all 3 PCs at very inopportune times. I brought this problem to light with the folks responsible for the product line. It was part of a multi-billion $$$$ Japanese conglomerate. After months of testing & inspection, they could NOT duplicate the problem, even though I sent them a very large file of a clock-cycle dump of the CPU of the PC. So, IF we can't solve this problem with TB ver. 60, don't sweat it!!!!

MRC Compose add-on is known to cause this problem https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1502391

Hello Wayne,

T-BIRD 60 is running in SAFE mode, per a previous directive from one of you techies. And, I've checked the list of "Add-ons". The list is empty. In fact, I've never knowingly added an external program to T-BIRD, even in previous versions.

But, NOW I've discovered another anomaly. I received an e-mail from a friend today which had a series of "jpg" image files listed at the bottom of this PC screen as attachments. They were "cute", so I decided to FORWARD them to some other friends. In the previous versions of T-BIRD, when you do this, the attachments are automatically included in the new e-mail. However, now with T-BIRD 60, pressing the FORWARD icon ONLY opens a new e-mail screen, and there are NO attached files listed at the bottom.

LOOK!, without sounding upset or disgusted, I think that there are TOO many bugs, etc. in this version of T-BIRD. Please tell me how I can go back to the previous version (52.nnn), BUT more importantly, HOW can I KEEP it at that level, since I do not want to face this same catastrophe again in the future. Thank you.

I have closed the continuation of this topic at https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1241317

Petri_Dish said

Hello, I was hoping that my last post would elicit a response from the Tech team, but so far it hasn't. Since we've been back & forth with the Bcc: problem that I'm having with T-BIRD 60, I've asked IF there is a way or a link that I can retro download the last stable version, 52.nnn? When I went to the MOZILLA / THUNDERBIRD website, there is a page which explains the entire history of T-BIRD, and shows the last series of Ver 52.nnn and how issues in each level was addressed. However, when I clicked on Ver 52.9.nnn, the screen changed & prepared me to download Ver. 60.nnn, which IS the version that is causing me all the trouble. I hope someone can send me a link so that I can download a Ver 52.nnn, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, keep it at that level, so I don't have to go through this process again. P.S. As I explained previously, T-BIRD 60 is running on this PC in SAFE mode, with NO "Add-ons" attached, and yet the problem still exists. While I have two other PCs (both laptops), these are set up for specific uses, and I do not have ANY e-mail client active on either one. Thank you.

THANK YOU!!!! Now you're sounding like MICROSOFT which doesn't give a crap about their user base since they've dominated the world. Time to find a new e-mail client. I had NO problems with the earlier versions, I've done EVERYTHING that has been suggested, and this is your response...... you CLOSED the discussion. That's real professional of y'all! Have a wonderful THANKSGIVING!!!

Petri_Dish said

THANK YOU!!!! Now you're sounding like MICROSOFT which doesn't give a crap about their user base since they've dominated the world. Time to find a new e-mail client. I had NO problems with the earlier versions, I've done EVERYTHING that has been suggested, and this is your response...... you CLOSED the discussion. That's real professional of y'all! Have a wonderful THANKSGIVING!!!

yes I closed your add-on topic because this is where you had the attention of people trying to help you. If you do not want to continue that is fine with me, but really I think you need to re read what I wrote.

I also think this topic would benefit significantly from a copy of the troubleshooting information.

To find the Troubleshooting information:

• Open Help (or click on three-line-icon and select Help)
• Choose Troubleshooting Information
• Use the button Copy to clipboard to select all. Do not check box "Include account names"!
• Paste this in your post.

Now to your last missive about forwarded attachments. There have been issues or as long as I have been using Thunderbird with forwarded attachments. Primarily based on a definition of one word in the RFC. Microsoft choose to apply it one way and Mozilla at the time applied it another and it was open to interpretation and neither would back down. So emails with attachments from Microsoft mail programs often have issues when you click forward. The simple answer is to forward as an attachment, instead of clicking forward, click the arrow and select attachment.

Oh and I use windows 10. clicking write and changing to BCC they typing addresses into the BCC box works and pressing enter on the selected address results in another selected address field with BCC beside it.

However if I double click on the name in the address list f9) I get the address in the list, but BCC is converted to To: for the entered address. I have not read all of this lengthy thread, is it double clicking that is causing you issues or typing into the address field.

Matt. In a previous response from one of the techs, they mentioned something called an "MRC". Now, in your post, you mention RFC. I have no idea what these shorthand terms mean. I am in no way a WINDOWS "genius". I was far more competent using Hollerith cards to program mainframe computers 50+ years ago. This is ALL the information that I can give you. This PC is running WINDOWS 7 HOME PRO, which gets periodic updates from MICROSOFT. The issue of the Bcc: began a week or so ago when THUNDERBIRD automatically downloaded Ver. 60 to this PC. I NEVER had a problem sending e-mails to multiple recipients as a progression of Bcc:. My routine was to type in the first name or last name of the person I wished to forward it to, and press the ENTER key. The NEXT box would open as Bcc:, and I'd type in either the first or last name of the next person. I would continue in this manner until I exhausted the list of people who I deigned to receive the e-mail. This worked ALL the time, EVERY time with no hitches. That was in Ver 52.nnn. Now, for EACH person, I must go back to the mode box (To:, CC:, Bcc:) and select the one I want (Bcc:) AND then type the name as before. So, I've done ALL the suggestions that have been previously mentioned. I'm running T-BIRD 60 in SAFE mode. I've checked for "Add-ons"; the field is empty! And, still it works the same INCORRECT way. So, this is why I'm a bit disgusted with the whole upgrade, and all I want to do is to have a reliable e-mail client. WHY can't I get a link to go back to Ver. 52.nnn which worked just fine, and leave it at that????? Thank you.

Name: Thunderbird

   Version: 60.3.1
   Build ID: 20181113231517

   Update Channel: release
   User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1
   OS: Windows_NT 6.1

   Multiprocess Windows: 0/0 (Disabled)
   Web Content Processes:
   Stylo: content = true (enabled by default), chrome = true (enabled by default)
   Enterprise Policies:
   Google Key: Missing
   Mozilla Location Service Key: Missing
   Safe Mode: false

 Mail and News Accounts
   account2:
     INCOMING: account2, , (none) Local Folders, plain, passwordCleartext

   account5:
     INCOMING: account5, , (pop3) pop.gmail.com:995, SSL, passwordCleartext
     OUTGOING: , smtp.gmail.com:465, SSL, passwordCleartext, true

   account6:
     INCOMING: account6, , (pop3) pop.gmail.com:995, SSL, passwordCleartext
     OUTGOING: , smtp.gmail.com:465, SSL, passwordCleartext, true

   account7:
     INCOMING: account7, , (pop3) pop.gmail.com:995, SSL, passwordCleartext
     OUTGOING: , smtp.gmail.com:465, SSL, OAuth2, true

   account8:
     INCOMING: account8, , (pop3) pop.gmail.com:995, SSL, passwordCleartext
     OUTGOING: , smtp.gmail.com:465, SSL, OAuth2, true

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I tried to send the data that you requested but I got a caution message alerting me that the file was over 10,000 characters, so I had to truncate the last paragraph of data. I hope that this doesn't negatively affect your research effort. Thank you.

Petri_Dish said

Matt. In a previous response from one of the techs, they mentioned something called an "MRC". Now, in your post, you mention RFC. I have no idea what these shorthand terms mean.

At the risk of being tiresome. RFC's are to the internet what ISO is to the world of industry. The big difference is ISO being an abbreviation is International Standards Organization sort of stands on it's own. The expanded version of RFC (Request For Comments) is actually more confusing that the abbreviation. But they are requests for comments by the internet engineering taskforce, who are charged with establishing the standards on which the internet runs. The standard used for IMAP is here https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501 just in case you want to have a peek at what the boring underbelly looks like. There are probable a dozen such RFC's that govern mail and HTML. You mention being an old time computer user, so I am guessing tcp/ip is not a totally foreign term as it has been a part of networking for a very long time. This is a link to the transmission control protocol part of tcp/ip (note the 1981 date).

I went back to the reference to the add-on MRC Compose. It is the name of the add-on, I have no idea what MRC means to the guy that wrote the add-on and named it as such. https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/mrc-compose/?src=ss

I am in no way a WINDOWS "genius". I was far more competent using Hollerith cards to program mainframe computers 50+ years ago.

Please I still remember picking up trays of cards and sorting them out.)

WHY can't I get a link to go back to Ver. 52.nnn which worked just fine, and leave it at that????? Thank you.

What locale version of Thunderbird are you using? One of the things missing from the troubleshooting information is the language (locale)

This thing you talk about is happening to you, but no one else can reproduce it. I don't think it is the sort of thing that would only appear on Windows 7 However try this. It will not hurt even if it fixes nothing and get back with that locale so I can give you a link to the correct language version of 54. Click the open folder button in the troubleshooting information. Close Thunderbird Delete the file session.json. Restart Thunderbird.

Note, I have also heard of malwarebytes causing some pretty funky things to happen. That is the always running product the anti virus thing not the download and run version which I used for many years as an excellent cleaner.

Hi Matt, Two things: The locale of which you request is Florida, USA English (or American, whichever you prefer.)

I did the steps that you asked, deleting the sessions.json file. Then I restarted T-BIRD. I have more than one e-mail address, so I attempted to send a test e-mail to my other two addresses. The same problem arose. I entered the first address as a Bcc:. Then after I pressed ENTER, the 2nd line came up as To:

Yes, I've heard of tcp/ip. IF my memory serves me it stands for Transaction control program / Internet packet. But, to be honest, when I was doing hardcore programming in the 1960s/ 1970s, it was mostly either mainframe assembler or FORTRAN, and the projects were very specific. I was also an active design engineer (electromechanical), but I never got into the internet even in its infancy. When I-B-M introduced the original PC in August, 1981, by October I shelled out the $2200 for one, and dabbled around with PC assembler a bit, but by then I was writing Ladder code for PLCs, and that's what I still do even though I've been retired for several years. I take small projects just to keep my mind occupied. It's fun to watch air cylinders go back & forth & up & down & in & out & watch all sorts of lites blink! THANX a lot for this latest attempt at a solution. By the way, I think I mentioned that earlier when you asked me to copy that data dump, I had to truncate the last batch of data since the file was larger than the space allotted for it.

Matt, I forgot to also mention that I DO have MALAWAREBYTES loaded on this PC. It's the MALAWARE FREE 3.6.1 version, and so I run it from time to time on my own. I don't believe that this "free" version is running in the background, but I'm probably wrong. But, it's been on this PC for a long time ... probably as long as T-BIRD. In addition, I also have MICROSOFT SECURITY ESSENTIALS, which does get updated automatically from time to time. Additionally, I have CCLEANER, which is a paid-subscription download, and because of that, it automatically downloads the definitions files, but it does pop up a window alerting me of this. Finally, I have SPYBOT, which I run periodically, although I've NOT done it in several weeks, mostly because I forget. The only other programs loaded are MICROSOFT WORD 2003, APACHE word processing suite, and some specialized PLC & microprocessor source code editor programs (ARDUINO, PARALLAX STAMP, SIEMENS PLCs, CLCIK PLCs, OMRON PLCs) and some utility programs for mundane things like a colour-correcting program (SPYDER) to calibrate the LCD monitor, and NERO for the CD/ DVD drive. And, you are already aware that it is WINDOWS 7 HOME PREMIUM.