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How do I get the tabs back below the bookmarks toolbar (where they SHOULD be) in Firefox Quantum?

已張貼

I have just installed Quantum, and would like to move the tabs back beneath the bookmarks toolbar, as I think this is a much more logical location for them. Is it possible to do this, and if so, how? I'm using Windows 8.1/ 64 bit, if that matters.

I have just installed Quantum, and would like to move the tabs back beneath the bookmarks toolbar, as I think this is a much more logical location for them. Is it possible to do this, and if so, how? I'm using Windows 8.1/ 64 bit, if that matters.

被選擇的解決方法

Hi Tall42, in Firefox 57+ extensions cannot modify the toolbar order, but you can use a custom style rule in a userChrome.css file to do it.

Please look at the third example on the following page:

https://www.userchrome.org/what-is-userchrome-css.html

I also show it in the following video starting around 8:45

https://vimeo.com/242513527

從原來的回覆中察看解決方案 22

額外的系統細節

已安裝的外掛程式

  • Shockwave Flash 27.0 r0

應用程式

  • User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; Win64; x64; rv:57.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/57.0

更多資訊

jscher2000
  • Top 10 Contributor
8635 個解決方法 70627 個答案

選擇的解決方法

Hi Tall42, in Firefox 57+ extensions cannot modify the toolbar order, but you can use a custom style rule in a userChrome.css file to do it.

Please look at the third example on the following page:

https://www.userchrome.org/what-is-userchrome-css.html

I also show it in the following video starting around 8:45

https://vimeo.com/242513527

Hi Tall42, in Firefox 57+ extensions cannot modify the toolbar order, but you can use a custom style rule in a userChrome.css file to do it. Please look at the third example on the following page: https://www.userchrome.org/what-is-userchrome-css.html I also show it in the following video starting around 8:45 https://vimeo.com/242513527

提出問題者

Many thanks!

Many thanks!
jmazzeo 0 個解決方法 17 個答案

I still don't understand how that works to move the tabs back where they were. I'm not that tech savvy. I downloaded the https://www.userchrome.org/what-is-userchrome-css.html, but can't figure out what it's supposed to do. Can someone please help me? I'm on an iMac and really want the tabs bar back where it belongs.

Also, does anyone know how to change the black tab bar? It's really difficult to read for people with vision problems. Thanks.

I still don't understand how that works to move the tabs back where they were. I'm not that tech savvy. I downloaded the https://www.userchrome.org/what-is-userchrome-css.html, but can't figure out what it's supposed to do. Can someone please help me? I'm on an iMac and really want the tabs bar back where it belongs. Also, does anyone know how to change the black tab bar? It's really difficult to read for people with vision problems. Thanks.
jscher2000
  • Top 10 Contributor
8635 個解決方法 70627 個答案

Hi jmazzeo, I'll reply in your thread over here: https://support.mozilla.org/questions/1185495

Hi jmazzeo, I'll reply in your thread over here: https://support.mozilla.org/questions/1185495
CatsinQ 0 個解決方法 19 個答案

有幫助的回覆

I agree with jmazzeo - I also have no idea how to safely modify the "chrome" file, or create it and then "run" it. With the huge demand I see for the tabs - on- bottom option it seems like it would just be built in.

I agree with jmazzeo - I also have no idea how to safely modify the "chrome" file, or create it and then "run" it. With the huge demand I see for the tabs - on- bottom option it seems like it would just be built in.
jscher2000
  • Top 10 Contributor
8635 個解決方法 70627 個答案

Anaya said

I agree with jmazzeo - I also have no idea how to safely modify the "chrome" file, or create it and then "run" it. With the huge demand I see for the tabs - on- bottom option it seems like it would just be built in.

Maybe someday it will be built in. For now, a userChrome.css file is the method Firefox allows for modifying toolbar positions.

I created a website on how to set up userChrome.css, and recorded two videos. I can't make house calls!

''Anaya [[#answer-1031011|said]]'' <blockquote> I agree with jmazzeo - I also have no idea how to safely modify the "chrome" file, or create it and then "run" it. With the huge demand I see for the tabs - on- bottom option it seems like it would just be built in. </blockquote> Maybe someday it will be built in. For now, a userChrome.css file is the method Firefox allows for modifying toolbar positions. I created a website on how to set up userChrome.css, and recorded two videos. I can't make house calls!
CatsinQ 0 個解決方法 19 個答案

Thanks for all your hard work. I did finally get it to move - not sure what I did, but reading all the various work that people like you put out there finally allowed me to fix the problem.

I still don't like the new square tabs and all, but at least they're on the bottom!

Thank you!!!

Thanks for all your hard work. I did finally get it to move - not sure what I did, but reading all the various work that people like you put out there finally allowed me to fix the problem. I still don't like the new square tabs and all, but at least they're on the bottom! Thank you!!!
paperfree 1 個解決方法 42 個答案

Hi jscher2000,

Nice one a really simple easy to follow tutorial on how to get the tabs below I appreciate your very helpful post.

I have a question, is it possible to move the address bar to the top in the same sort of way??? If so do you have any idea where to go for the required info???

Thanks Again,

Paperfree.

Hi jscher2000, Nice one a really simple easy to follow tutorial on how to get the tabs below I appreciate your very helpful post. I have a question, is it possible to move the address bar to the top in the same sort of way??? If so do you have any idea where to go for the required info??? Thanks Again, Paperfree.
jscher2000
  • Top 10 Contributor
8635 個解決方法 70627 個答案

paperfree said

I have a question, is it possible to move the address bar to the top in the same sort of way??? If so do you have any idea where to go for the required info???

The address bar normally resides with the main toolbar (nav-bar), and if you moved the tab bar down, the nav-bar should end up at the top (but below the menu bar and title bar, if you show those). Did you mean something different?

''paperfree [[#answer-1032664|said]]'' <blockquote>I have a question, is it possible to move the address bar to the top in the same sort of way??? If so do you have any idea where to go for the required info??? </blockquote> The address bar normally resides with the main toolbar (nav-bar), and if you moved the tab bar down, the nav-bar should end up at the top (but below the menu bar and title bar, if you show those). Did you mean something different?
paperfree 1 個解決方法 42 個答案

Yes I want it to put it back at the top of the window along the same line as

File Edit View History Bookmarks Tools Help  -------------------------   - * X

Leaving the search box where it is. If that's possible I don't know???

Thanks for the speedy reply I appreciate it cheers.

Yes I want it to put it back at the top of the window along the same line as File Edit View History Bookmarks Tools Help ------------------------- - * X Leaving the search box where it is. If that's possible I don't know??? Thanks for the speedy reply I appreciate it cheers.

由 paperfree 於 修改

jscher2000
  • Top 10 Contributor
8635 個解決方法 70627 個答案

Hi paperfree, I honestly have no idea how to pluck the address bar out of the main toolbar and move it to the Menu Bar. Do you want to see whether any CSS wizards on the following subreddit can help?

https://www.reddit.com/r/FirefoxCSS/

I have some other suggestions to places to get style recipes on this page: https://www.userchrome.org/find-user-style-recipes.html

Hi paperfree, I honestly have no idea how to pluck the address bar out of the main toolbar and move it to the Menu Bar. Do you want to see whether any CSS wizards on the following subreddit can help? https://www.reddit.com/r/FirefoxCSS/ I have some other suggestions to places to get style recipes on this page: https://www.userchrome.org/find-user-style-recipes.html
paperfree 1 個解決方法 42 個答案

Hi jscher2000, thanks for the response!!! Yes I'll try these two links you have posted and see how it goes. Watch this space I'll let you know of the outcome....

Hi jscher2000, thanks for the response!!! Yes I'll try these two links you have posted and see how it goes. Watch this space I'll let you know of the outcome....
boudrell 0 個解決方法 12 個答案

有幫助的回覆

Excellent solution! Works perfectly! I took my time (not known for my patience with tech issues/solutions) and after about ten minutes, my tabs were back on the bottom. Thank you very much for your efforts (jscher2000) on behalf of the Firefox user community. Now if Mozilla were to shift some of their priorities away from silly, inane changes and remember what their mandate has always been, perhaps these forums would be "Internet Dead Zones"!

Excellent solution! Works perfectly! I took my time (not known for my patience with tech issues/solutions) and after about ten minutes, my tabs were back on the bottom. Thank you very much for your efforts (jscher2000) on behalf of the Firefox user community. Now if Mozilla were to shift some of their priorities away from silly, inane changes and remember what their mandate has always been, perhaps these forums would be "Internet Dead Zones"!
Drediock 0 個解決方法 11 個答案

jscher2000 said

Hi Tall42, in Firefox 57+ extensions cannot modify the toolbar order, but you can use a custom style rule in a userChrome.css file to do it. Please look at the third example on the following page: https://www.userchrome.org/what-is-userchrome-css.html I also show it in the following video starting around 8:45 https://vimeo.com/242513527

Sorry. Not good enough! Not even by a longshot Why do you people do this?? The charm of firefox was that the users could customize it the way WE wanted it. WHY with each new release do you insist on making it less customizable t the way WE want it??? I LOATHE the new look and lack of ability to make it look and act the way I want. You may have made the performance the best thing since the invention of the jet engine but I'd rather go back to version 27 then deal with this. Its big and ugly and I cant lay it out the way I like. sorry I will be downgrading back to the older version until the creative folks at mozilla pull their heads out of their collective arses and gives us the type of customizable product we want instead of what you think we should have. Who are YOU to decide for me how we want something? Why cant you listen to what the people want???

''jscher2000 [[#answer-1027967|said]]'' <blockquote> Hi Tall42, in Firefox 57+ extensions cannot modify the toolbar order, but you can use a custom style rule in a userChrome.css file to do it. Please look at the third example on the following page: https://www.userchrome.org/what-is-userchrome-css.html I also show it in the following video starting around 8:45 https://vimeo.com/242513527 </blockquote> Sorry. Not good enough! Not even by a longshot Why do you people do this?? The charm of firefox was that the users could customize it the way WE wanted it. WHY with each new release do you insist on making it less customizable t the way WE want it??? I LOATHE the new look and lack of ability to make it look and act the way I want. You may have made the performance the best thing since the invention of the jet engine but I'd rather go back to version 27 then deal with this. Its big and ugly and I cant lay it out the way I like. sorry I will be downgrading back to the older version until the creative folks at mozilla pull their heads out of their collective arses and gives us the type of customizable product we want instead of what you think we should have. Who are YOU to decide for me how we want something? Why cant you listen to what the people want???
jscher2000
  • Top 10 Contributor
8635 個解決方法 70627 個答案

Hi Drediock, as always, support volunteers can only offer fixes for today's Firefox and not create new features or turn back the clock.

I wonder if there will ever be an exception to your pattern of "new version is ugly" posts: Advanced Search. What will it take?

You can give feedback using https://qsurvey.mozilla.com/s3/FirefoxInput/ and you can monitor sites like Ghacks from time to time as they cover Firefox customization news frequently: https://www.ghacks.net/?s=firefox

Hi Drediock, as always, support volunteers can only offer fixes for today's Firefox and not create new features or turn back the clock. I wonder if there will ever be an exception to your pattern of "new version is ugly" posts: [https://support.mozilla.org/search/advanced?answered_by=Drediock&a=1&sortby=1&w=2 Advanced Search]. What will it take? You can give feedback using https://qsurvey.mozilla.com/s3/FirefoxInput/ and you can monitor sites like Ghacks from time to time as they cover Firefox customization news frequently: https://www.ghacks.net/?s=firefox
Drediock 0 個解決方法 11 個答案

jscher2000 said

Hi Drediock, as always, support volunteers can only offer fixes for today's Firefox and not create new features or turn back the clock. I wonder if there will ever be an exception to your pattern of "new version is ugly" posts: Advanced Search. What will it take? You can give feedback using https://qsurvey.mozilla.com/s3/FirefoxInput/ and you can monitor sites like Ghacks from time to time as they cover Firefox customization news frequently: https://www.ghacks.net/?s=firefox

What will it take? The answer to that is simple. Simply provide a way for us to have the software at least on the surface look and act the way we had our previous versions. Allow the customization powers we had before. That power is what endeared Firefox to us to begin with. Instead. With each new version the developers remove more and more of that power arrogantly deciding for us how things should look . Take the case of Tabs for example. It used to be as simple as changing an option in a submenu from one setting to another. Now we cant do it at all. Hell. Originally I was able to decide which order I had the following buttons. forward page, home,backward page, Stop,reload, etc

I could place them wherever I wanted. Most of the time when new versions were released this took maybe an hour.

Gradually this became more and more difficult until changing features to be what I liked required a download of an addon. then even that became more difficult. and making the required changes to what I like started taking days and weeks until someone developed an addon. but even then It was often less options then we had before. And its only gotten progressively more restrictive Now for the last several versions the developers seem to have decided that they are going to make those decisions for me as to what I like and have. a far FAR cry from what Firefox originally was and what caused me to use it to begin with I havent liked this new "modern" the developers have forced upon us for a bunch of versions now. I keep hoping that one of these days with one of the new versions the developers will pull their arrogant heads out of their arses and give back the power of appearance to the user to No avail. Instead I end up uninstalling the new version and downgrading to the last previous version that allowed me to make the changes I wanted. Which would be version 34.0.5. The developers can make whatever improvements they want. But if the interface isnt what the user wants well then the user u=isnt going to use the software no matter how good it is under the hood. I've known many people who have stopped using firefox altogether and its not just the speed or security. Its also to large extent the interface and lack of ability to customize it. either we downgrade back to previous versions as I have been doing. Or stop using firefox altogether. the complaints about it being ugly wont stop until you stop making an ugly interface. All it is is change for changes sake. I dont know anyone that wants less viewable screen space for example yet that is one of the things the developers keep forcing upon us.

''jscher2000 [[#answer-1046381|said]]'' <blockquote> Hi Drediock, as always, support volunteers can only offer fixes for today's Firefox and not create new features or turn back the clock. I wonder if there will ever be an exception to your pattern of "new version is ugly" posts: [https://support.mozilla.org/search/advanced?answered_by=Drediock&a=1&sortby=1&w=2 Advanced Search]. What will it take? You can give feedback using https://qsurvey.mozilla.com/s3/FirefoxInput/ and you can monitor sites like Ghacks from time to time as they cover Firefox customization news frequently: https://www.ghacks.net/?s=firefox </blockquote> What will it take? The answer to that is simple. Simply provide a way for us to have the software at least on the surface look and act the way we had our previous versions. Allow the customization powers we had before. That power is what endeared Firefox to us to begin with. Instead. With each new version the developers remove more and more of that power arrogantly deciding for us how things should look . Take the case of Tabs for example. It used to be as simple as changing an option in a submenu from one setting to another. Now we cant do it at all. Hell. Originally I was able to decide which order I had the following buttons. forward page, home,backward page, Stop,reload, etc I could place them wherever I wanted. Most of the time when new versions were released this took maybe an hour. Gradually this became more and more difficult until changing features to be what I liked required a download of an addon. then even that became more difficult. and making the required changes to what I like started taking days and weeks until someone developed an addon. but even then It was often less options then we had before. And its only gotten progressively more restrictive Now for the last several versions the developers seem to have decided that they are going to make those decisions for me as to what I like and have. a far FAR cry from what Firefox originally was and what caused me to use it to begin with I havent liked this new "modern" the developers have forced upon us for a bunch of versions now. I keep hoping that one of these days with one of the new versions the developers will pull their arrogant heads out of their arses and give back the power of appearance to the user to No avail. Instead I end up uninstalling the new version and downgrading to the last previous version that allowed me to make the changes I wanted. Which would be version 34.0.5. The developers can make whatever improvements they want. But if the interface isnt what the user wants well then the user u=isnt going to use the software no matter how good it is under the hood. I've known many people who have stopped using firefox altogether and its not just the speed or security. Its also to large extent the interface and lack of ability to customize it. either we downgrade back to previous versions as I have been doing. Or stop using firefox altogether. the complaints about it being ugly wont stop until you stop making an ugly interface. All it is is change for changes sake. I dont know anyone that wants less viewable screen space for example yet that is one of the things the developers keep forcing upon us.
Drediock 0 個解決方法 11 個答案

jscher2000 said

Hi Tall42, in Firefox 57+ extensions cannot modify the toolbar order, but you can use a custom style rule in a userChrome.css file to do it. Please look at the third example on the following page: https://www.userchrome.org/what-is-userchrome-css.html I also show it in the following video starting around 8:45 https://vimeo.com/242513527

Here's the problem. We shouldnt have to! You asked that it would take to not hear the same complaints. Well then the developers should stop doing the same things that piss people off. Instead of making these issue easier to fix. they make it harder. Whats it going to t take for the developers to stop doing the same exact things that tick people off over and over and over again? Jersey negotiation tactics? that is ask nicely the first time. "Stop doing that please" Then if that doesnt work say "You'll stop doing that and you wont have your kneecaps busted"?

''jscher2000 [[#answer-1027967|said]]'' <blockquote> Hi Tall42, in Firefox 57+ extensions cannot modify the toolbar order, but you can use a custom style rule in a userChrome.css file to do it. Please look at the third example on the following page: https://www.userchrome.org/what-is-userchrome-css.html I also show it in the following video starting around 8:45 https://vimeo.com/242513527 </blockquote> Here's the problem. We shouldnt have to! You asked that it would take to not hear the same complaints. Well then the developers should stop doing the same things that piss people off. Instead of making these issue easier to fix. they make it harder. Whats it going to t take for the developers to stop doing the same exact things that tick people off over and over and over again? Jersey negotiation tactics? that is ask nicely the first time. "Stop doing that please" Then if that doesnt work say "You'll stop doing that and you wont have your kneecaps busted"?
Drediock 0 個解決方法 11 個答案

jscher2000 said

Hi Drediock, as always, support volunteers can only offer fixes for today's Firefox and not create new features or turn back the clock. I wonder if there will ever be an exception to your pattern of "new version is ugly" posts:

You will stop getting these post patterns when the developers stop screwing around with the same things over and over again. and not one minute before. Get it right and you wont see the complaints. Simple as that

''jscher2000 [[#answer-1046381|said]]'' <blockquote> Hi Drediock, as always, support volunteers can only offer fixes for today's Firefox and not create new features or turn back the clock. I wonder if there will ever be an exception to your pattern of "new version is ugly" posts: </blockquote> You will stop getting these post patterns when the developers stop screwing around with the same things over and over again. and not one minute before. Get it right and you wont see the complaints. Simple as that
the-edmeister
  • Top 25 Contributor
  • Moderator
5395 個解決方法 40084 個答案

Drediock

You may not realize it, but the Tabs on Bottom feature was removed in Firefox 29. which was released all the way back in April 2014. Since then users have needed to use an extension such as Classic Theme Restorer to provide that retro feature in the Firefox 29 thru 56 versions. Sadly, as of Quantum Firefox 57 is not possible to rewrite CTR in the new WebExtensions format.

So currently, the only "fix" is via userChrome.css code of script. And I have hunch that the ability for users to partake of "fixes" via userChrome.css may be severely limited in the future. IMO, all the complaints and whining about "having to use userChrome.css to effect modifications to Firefox" that you and many other users have presented here is reason enough for Mozilla to lock down the ability by users to modify Firefox even further; IOW, Mozilla has already stopped WebExtensions from being able to do such modifications to Firefox, so now Mozilla may decide to "lock the back door", too; over the complaints and ranting that appears repeatedly in this support fora.

An active effort that has been undertaken by the developers (will be coming in Firefox 58 or 59), to use telemetry to see how many users are actually using an optional user created userChrome.css file in Firefox. And in that Bug report there are developers who have provided code to "snatch" the userChrome.css code to see what types of modifications people are doing to Quantum. Plus, there has been discussion about what type of modifications will be blocked, should the developers feel that would become necessary in their eyes.

In the end, "you'se guys" are gonna ruin things for the rest of us who have used userChrome.css for many years to achieve our ends results without ranting and using threats to get our point across. Mozilla owns the code and while I may disagree with the direction that Firefox has been headed for a number of years now, the manner that you and too many other users are use to make your point is way over the top. As far as I am concerned. suck it up and put your "big boy pants on", while keeping your discourse about this subject at an acceptable level.

And if you are as unhappy as you come across, why not just use a different web browser that has the features that you want, and stop ranting about changes that happened 3 1/2 year ago.

'''Drediock''' You may not realize it, but the '''Tabs on Bottom''' feature was removed in Firefox 29. which was released all the way back in April 2014. Since then users have needed to use an extension such as Classic Theme Restorer to provide that retro feature in the Firefox 29 thru 56 versions. Sadly, as of Quantum Firefox 57 is not possible to rewrite CTR in the new WebExtensions format. So currently, the only "fix" is via '''userChrome.css''' code of script. And I have hunch that the ability for users to partake of "fixes" via userChrome.css may be severely limited in the future. IMO, all the complaints and whining about "having to use userChrome.css to effect modifications to Firefox" that you and many other users have presented here is reason enough for Mozilla to lock down the ability by users to modify Firefox even further; IOW, Mozilla has already stopped WebExtensions from being able to do such modifications to Firefox, so now Mozilla may decide to "lock the back door", too; over the complaints and ranting that appears repeatedly in this support fora. An active effort that has been undertaken by the developers ''(will be coming in Firefox 58 or 59)'', to use telemetry to see how many users are actually using an optional user created userChrome.css file in Firefox. And in that Bug report there are developers who have provided code to "snatch" the userChrome.css code to see what types of modifications people are doing to Quantum. Plus, there has been discussion about what type of modifications will be blocked, should the developers feel that would become necessary in their eyes. In the end, "you'se guys" are gonna ruin things for the rest of us who have used userChrome.css for many years to achieve our ends results without ranting and using threats to get our point across. Mozilla owns the code and while I may disagree with the direction that Firefox has been headed for a number of years now, the manner that you and too many other users are use to make your point is way over the top. As far as I am concerned. suck it up and put your "big boy pants on", while keeping your discourse about this subject at an acceptable level. And if you are as unhappy as you come across, why not just use a different web browser that has the features that you want, and stop ranting about changes that happened 3 1/2 year ago.
Drediock 0 個解決方法 11 個答案

I am absolutely and full aware that this feature was removed way back then. I've been a user since WAY before that. I remember when that change took place. And people have been complaining about it and the ever tighter restrictions they have placed on this ability ever since ever since. And if the developers feel that people complaining and whining is a reason to "lock down the ability by users to modify Firefox even further" Well then that is a really piss poor business model that reeks of arrogance. Really. You (the developers) remove a feature people like and then when they complain about it you make it harder rather then easier to fix it?? then when they complain about that you make it harder still?

Im in business too. If customers were repeatedly complaining about the same thing over and over its not the customers that are wrong and reason for me to not offer any specific option or as you put it. "lock down further". It would be a loud and clear signal that my company is doing something wrong that is making my customers unhappy. WE the users ARE the customers. Without us you and the developers have zilch. Without us there is no Firefox or Mozilla. So it would behoove the developers to move in the opposite direction. A company that doesnt listen to its customers doesnt remain a company for long. They want to lock it down further? LET them. Then they can sit in the dark and wonder why people started refusing to use their product. This type of arrogance is why people started moving away from firefox to other browsers. I know another online company that developed a product that was once enormously popular. But Its owners too showed the same exact type arrogance you describe. Its customers would complain in droves but they wouldnt listen. In fact they claimed they knew better what people wanted then the people did. People still complained. Well. Eventually people got tired of not being listened to and treated like they had an "American Standard" label on them and that online business took a deep nosedive and currently has 1/5 of the customers it once had. Now those very same owners have since decided to take a reverse stance and numbers plateaued for a short while But those those numbers too are starting to dwindle. Its easy to see that this company is now hanging on by a thread and its far too late. Pissed too many people off too many times simply because they refused to listen and place as much value on their users as they did with their own arrogance. This company it is clear to see will not be around much longer. I see firefox going o down the same path. Im still here much like that other company because Im a bit of a die hard. but pretty much everyone I know that used to be a die hard Firefox loyalist has moved on for the same reasons. And they are the same reasons that other company is about to go under. They dont frikken listen

I am absolutely and full aware that this feature was removed way back then. I've been a user since WAY before that. I remember when that change took place. And people have been complaining about it and the ever tighter restrictions they have placed on this ability ever since ever since. And if the developers feel that people complaining and whining is a reason to "lock down the ability by users to modify Firefox even further" Well then that is a really piss poor business model that reeks of arrogance. Really. You (the developers) remove a feature people like and then when they complain about it you make it harder rather then easier to fix it?? then when they complain about that you make it harder still? Im in business too. If customers were repeatedly complaining about the same thing over and over its not the customers that are wrong and reason for me to not offer any specific option or as you put it. "lock down further". It would be a loud and clear signal that my company is doing something wrong that is making my customers unhappy. WE the users ARE the customers. Without us you and the developers have zilch. Without us there is no Firefox or Mozilla. So it would behoove the developers to move in the opposite direction. A company that doesnt listen to its customers doesnt remain a company for long. They want to lock it down further? LET them. Then they can sit in the dark and wonder why people started refusing to use their product. This type of arrogance is why people started moving away from firefox to other browsers. I know another online company that developed a product that was once enormously popular. But Its owners too showed the same exact type arrogance you describe. Its customers would complain in droves but they wouldnt listen. In fact they claimed they knew better what people wanted then the people did. People still complained. Well. Eventually people got tired of not being listened to and treated like they had an "American Standard" label on them and that online business took a deep nosedive and currently has 1/5 of the customers it once had. Now those very same owners have since decided to take a reverse stance and numbers plateaued for a short while But those those numbers too are starting to dwindle. Its easy to see that this company is now hanging on by a thread and its far too late. Pissed too many people off too many times simply because they refused to listen and place as much value on their users as they did with their own arrogance. This company it is clear to see will not be around much longer. I see firefox going o down the same path. Im still here much like that other company because Im a bit of a die hard. but pretty much everyone I know that used to be a die hard Firefox loyalist has moved on for the same reasons. And they are the same reasons that other company is about to go under. They dont frikken listen