Thunderbird Community Forum

When I try to reply to an e mail sometimes I get Reporting-MTA: dns; smtpout.karoo.kcom.com Final-Recipient: rfc822;ngoedupwangmo@sbcglobal.net Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure) Remote-MTA: dns; [144.160.235.143] Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.0 - Unknown address error 553-'5.3.0 alph772 DNSBL:RBL 521< 212.50.160.34 >_is_blocked.For assistance forward this error to abuse_rbl@abuse-att.net' (delivery attempts: 0)

Any ideas anybody? Reporting to abuse.....as I have done in the past produced no help whatsoever.

Yet I received an email today and 'replying' and sending a new message produces the same resuut This is not the first time this has happened and messages get through from Ngoedup and sometimes my 'replies' gets through. Thank you Bernard

My Thunderbird is IMAP'ed to my generic usa.net email server. It downloads everything to Thunderbird serving as backup only. I have set that local delete does not delete on the server.

It has now amassed ~200.000 emails in the active Thunderbird Inbox. (No, I don't want to delete any !:o) I want to move the ~200.000 emails to a local folder not affecting the ongoing download sync from usa.net. The local folder is to be offline.

How do I bulk move the ~200.000 emails in the active Thunderbird Inbox to a local Thunderbird folder? - not deleting anything locally or on the server - keeping the sync download from the usa.net server running onwards into the now purged Inbox - not having the sync re-download from the server (defeats my intended purpose #:o)

According my settings the junk mails in junk folder should be deleted after one day. But - instead of deleting these junk mails - the junk mails just move to trash folder (which then must be cleared manually) - absolutely nonsense !! My thunderbird version 139.0.2 - before update to this current version, the junk mails have been DELETED (!!) according my settings and NOT moved to trash

Unable to log in at server. Probably wrong configuration , username or password. Old computer went kaput have a new one but I am now unable to log into mt email account

Regarding: Thunderbird Version 128.11.1esr 　 Please tell me how to make folder pane wider than the system default width of the vertical layout. The reason of this question is that I cannot see full of folder names under the system default width.

hi, My spam folder has disappeared.

The Junk folder is there, but no spam is being moved there. How can I restore the spam folder? Thank you for assistance!

I am currently using tb 128.11.1esr(64-bit) and have the layout set to Classic View. On the right of the screen I have the Today Screen set to mini-month. Is there a way of showing days in that month where there is an event shown in Bold? At the moment I just see the days of the month and have no idea where there is an event. Thank you.

Microsoft Outlook Client emails are legally valid in a court of law, but Thunderbird emails are not. Can we start taking baby steps towards making Thunderbird emails a little more viable in legal applications?

While I do not understand these things in the depth required, can we start taking baby steps towards achieving legal validity of emails downloaded from Thunderbird?

I am presenting below a conversation that I had with chat GPT regarding this matter for the help of anyone who wishes to take this up.

Chat GPT:

QUESTION 1: 1. As per my limited knowledge, Outlook client emails are legally valid because the header cannot be edited. This however, is not true of Thunderbird emails. Do I understand correctly? 2. What are the challenges in making Thunderbird header not user editable, so that Thunderbird emails also have the same benefit?

Chat GPT: Your question touches on email authenticity and legal validity—especially in regulated or evidence-sensitive contexts. Let's break it down:

Is it true that Outlook headers are immutable and Thunderbird’s are not?

Partially True — but needs clarification.

Email headers in both Outlook and Thunderbird

Can be viewed by recipients, but cannot be edited after the email has been sent. Only during composition can certain headers (like `From`, `Reply-To`) be changed, depending on the setup.

What you cannot change post-sending:

After an email is sent (from any client), the core SMTP headers (`Date`, `From`, `Message-ID`, etc.) are locked. These are generated by the sending server and cryptographically traceable via server logs or DKIM.

Outlook’s extra layer:

Outlook integrates closely with Microsoft Exchange, which stores server-side logs, message tracking, and non-editable audit trails (e.g., via journaling). That’s what gives Outlook/Exchange emails more evidentiary credibility, not just the client itself. In contrast, Thunderbird usually connects via standard IMAP/SMTP, without server-side logging, unless used with a corporate mail server like Postfix + Dovecot + journaling.

In Summary: Table Feature Outlook (w/ Exchange) Thunderbird Headers editable during composition Yes (some fields) Yes (same) Headers editable after sending No No Built-in server-side logging Yes (Exchange) No (unless configured) Strong evidentiary trail Common in enterprise Requires external setup

What are the challenges in making Thunderbird headers non-editable during composition?

The challenge lies not in technical impossibility, but in the design philosophy of Thunderbird:

a. Open Source & User Control

Thunderbird is open source, so users can customize or even extend the client to manipulate headers (via extensions or config changes). This is powerful for advanced users, but not ideal in regulated or high-trust environments.

b. Lack of Server-Side Enforcement

Thunderbird relies on whatever SMTP/IMAP servers it connects to. Unless the server enforces policies (like DKIM signing, DMARC, or header filtering), client settings are only soft limits.

c. Missing Native Audit Features

Outlook/Exchange logs metadata like when a message was sent, delivered, read, etc. Thunderbird lacks that unless paired with enterprise-grade backends. How Could Thunderbird Improve Legal Trustworthiness?

1. Header Locking During Composition

  	Disable or grey out fields like `From`, `Date`, `Message-ID`.
  	Possible via extension, but not enforced by default.

2. Enforced Server-Side Signing (e.g., DKIM)

  	Ensure outgoing mail is cryptographically signed to verify integrity.
  	Requires a properly configured mail server, not just Thunderbird.

3. Journaling or BCC Archiving

  	Auto-BCC all sent mail to a tamper-proof archival system.
  	Thunderbird can do this via rules or server configuration.

4. Extension or Mode for “Forensic Compliance”

  	Custom Thunderbird modes that restrict editing headers, disable extensions, log actions, etc.

Final Thoughts

You're correct in understanding that Thunderbird offers less baked-in legal reliability than Outlook + Exchange. But this isn’t due to insecure design—rather, it's due to Thunderbird’s flexibility and lack of tight server integration. Thunderbird can be made trustworthy with the right server configuration (DKIM, archiving) and possibly some custom add-ons.

If you’re looking to build or propose a “forensic-grade” Thunderbird environment, I can help design one with proper technical constraints and audit trails. Let me know!

QUESTION 2: My legal Counsel has told me that emails downloaded from the Gmail server into the outlook client are legally valid. So even without Microsoft Exchange and all the other server side logging, Outlook emails are legally viable. Chat GPT

Yes — your legal counsel is broadly correct, and here’s the nuanced explanation:

Emails Downloaded via Outlook (from Gmail) Can Be Legally Valid

Even without Microsoft Exchange, emails downloaded into Outlook (say via IMAP or POP from Gmail) can still be legally viable evidence, because:

1. Outlook stores email in a tamper-evident format

Outlook saves emails in `.pst` or `.ost` files. These files have a structured, proprietary binary format that is hard to tamper with without detection. Courts often accept these files (with chain of custody) as original records.

2. Outlook preserves server headers

Even when connected to Gmail, Outlook does not modify or fake headers. It shows server-signed headers (like `Message-ID`, `Date`, etc.) exactly as received. These headers can be verified independently against:

Gmail’s “Show Original” → raw headers DKIM/DMARC authentication

3. Integrity from Gmail itself

Gmail assigns unique `Message-ID`s and signs outgoing mail with DKIM. DKIM proves the message has not been tampered with since it left Google’s servers. So even if Outlook is the client, the source of trust is Gmail + DKIM, not just the software.

In Legal Contexts

4. What courts typically require is:

 A copy of the original message as received (headers intact)
 Some form of chain of custody (who had access, how was it stored)
 Optionally, confirmation from the mail server logs (if challenged)
 Outlook is often used in corporate/legal environments because:

It does not let users easily forge full headers The data format is harder to manipulate Legal teams and forensic experts are familiar with `.pst` files

So even without Exchange, emails received and stored in Outlook are trusted, provided:

The full headers are intact The `.pst` or `.ost` file has not been tampered with

5. How This Differs from Thunderbird

Thunderbird also preserves headers and stores messages locally — but: Table: Aspect Outlook Thunderbird Storage format `.pst`/`.ost` (proprietary) `.mbox` or plain text Header immutability Enforced by format Editable via text file (with effort) Forensic familiarity High (in legal circles) Moderate Tamper-evidence Strong (binary format) Weak (editable with text editors)

So Thunderbird messages can technically be altered more easily after download, especially if stored in `.mbox` or `.eml` formats. That’s why they are viewed with more caution in legal settings.

Conclusion

Yes — emails downloaded into Outlook, even from Gmail, are generally accepted as legally valid, provided the headers are intact and the file has not been manipulated. Outlook's storage format and market reputation contribute to its legal trustworthiness — even without Exchange.

If you want to achieve similar legal credibility with Thunderbird, the focus should be on:

Enforcing DKIM-signing (from Gmail, already done) Locking down `.eml` or `.mbox` file access Possibly archiving in tamper-evident formats

Let me know if you’d like a workflow to export Thunderbird emails into a legally robust format similar to `.pst`.

Account appears correct in the settings which has been checked through on line by Microsoft and Apple who suggest its a software issue with Thunderbird. Has anyone any thoughts as to the problem?

Microsoft analysis showed these comments:- "The request time out means your account has server issue which you temporarily cannot yet set up your account in thunderbird. With this, I would highly suggest contacting Apple Support so they can provide to you the correct information and when the server issue will be rectified for your account"

Apple support basically added nothing and suggested I contact Thunderbird Support.

Have just installed TB for the first time (replacing WLM) and am very happy with it. My only problem is that the option to open with a blank page is not working despite leaving the checkbox unchecked. I've tried checking and unchecking but it makes no difference, it always opens with the full setup options displayed. Is there another way to have TB open with a blank page?

Currently switching to Thunderbird from MS LiveMail. Found out, that Thunderbird does not search in attachments. This function is present in MS LM and is regularly used. Is there any solution for Thunderbird? Thank you.

In our work we use the cardbook extension; starting from version 95.2 it began asking the user for permission. I wouldn’t really like to explain to a crowd of users what to do with this request. Is there some way to grant these permissions without asking the user for them?

When typing an email I would like to have it set so that at the start of each new sentence or paragraph it starts with a capital letter. Is there somewhere in Settings to allow me to achieve this?

I have two Outlook accounts on my computer, each with its own outlook email address. I set up the first one a few weeks ago and works fine. I has all the subfolders that are also in Outlook --- Sent, Deleted, Drafts, Junk, etc. I may have had to set these up in Account Settings - Copies & Folders settings. I set up my second Outlook email account (not alias) in Thunderbird, but it only shows an Inbox subfolder. Sent emails from this second outlook account are going to Local - Sent subfolder. I can't set up a Sent folder. When viewing on Outlook, all subfolders are showing and Sent emails are being placed in the Sent folder under this second email account. Each outlook account has its own password.

What do I need to do to get the second outlook account in Thunderbird work with its own subfolders (Sent, Deleted, Drafts, etc) instead of using the Local subfolders?

Thank you

i CAN SIGN INTO MY TELSTRA WEBMAIL BUT I CANNOTGET MY TELSTRA MESSGES THROUGH THUNDERBIRD. i HAVE CONFIRMED THE PASSWORD OPENS WEBMAIL AND i HAVE CHANGED PASSWORDS FOR MY EMAIL THAT MANY TIMES AND IT STILL CANNOT DOWN LOAD MESSAGES FROM WEBMAIL.

Have been unable to access Firefox for a couple of months (have been in and out of hospital so not critical at the time). I now find when attempting to access that I get as far as the two top lines of the screen coming up, but then a message saying no message found. I know that there are messages there, also my addresses and folders. Please note that I am a very basic user, so any instructions will have to be spelled out. Thanks