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Updates to this article

  1. See this forum thread for related discussion on updates to this article:

    To eddyc:

    I think you misunderstood my comment to the-edmeister in the above thread, where I wrote,

    The Restore bookmarks from backup or move them to another computer article has a Moving bookmarks to another computer section that says this:

    Using Firefox Sync

    You can use Firefox Sync to move your bookmarks from one computer to another.

    Note: Firefox Sync continuously updates itself as you change bookmarks, so it does not provide a true backup service, nor is it intended to be used as one.

    <snip>


    I wrote that you could add something about Sync not being a backup service to this article. I don't use Firefox Sync myself so I'm not the best person to review the other changes you are making to this article but regarding the following addition:

    == Can I use Firefox Sync to backup my data? ==
    
    In short: 'No'. Firefox Sync is designed for moving your bookmarks from one computer to another. The data is continuously updated as you change bookmarks, so it does not provide a true backup service, nor is it intended to be used as one. For information on backing up your personal data see the following article: Back up and restore information in Firefox profiles
    

    You should change that to something like,

    In short: 'No'. Firefox Sync is designed for synchronizing data (such as your bookmarks, history, passwords, and open tabs) when you use Firefox on different computers or mobile devices. The data is continuously updated so it does not provide a true backup service, nor is it intended to be used as one. For information on backing up the Firefox data that you have stored on your computer, see the article Back up and restore information in Firefox profiles.

    See this forum thread for related discussion on updates to this article: *[/forums/knowledge-base-articles/709590] How to use Firefox Sync article To eddyc: I think you misunderstood my comment to the-edmeister in the above thread, where I wrote, <blockquote> The [[Restore bookmarks from backup or move them to another computer]] article has a '''Moving bookmarks to another computer''' section that says this: ----- '''Using Firefox Sync''' You can use Firefox Sync to move your bookmarks from one computer to another. '''Note:''' Firefox Sync continuously updates itself as you change bookmarks, so it does not provide a true backup service, nor is it intended to be used as one. <snip> ----- </blockquote> I wrote that you could add something about Sync not being a backup service to this article. I don't use Firefox Sync myself so I'm not the best person to review the other changes you are making to this article but regarding the following addition: == '''Can I use Firefox Sync to backup my data?''' == In short: 'No'. Firefox Sync is designed for moving your bookmarks from one computer to another. The data is continuously updated as you change bookmarks, so it does not provide a true backup service, nor is it intended to be used as one. For information on backing up your personal data see the following article: [[Back up and restore information in Firefox profiles]] You should change that to something like, In short: 'No'. Firefox Sync is designed for synchronizing data (such as your bookmarks, history, passwords, and open tabs) when you use Firefox on different computers or mobile devices. The data is continuously updated so it does not provide a true backup service, nor is it intended to be used as one. For information on backing up the Firefox data that you have stored on your computer, see the article [[Back up and restore information in Firefox profiles]].
  2. Ah yes you are right. I didn't realise how bookmark specific that sounds.

    I think your edit looks perfect. I've dropped that in and submitted again.

    Thanks

    Ah yes you are right. I didn't realise how bookmark specific that sounds. I think your edit looks perfect. I've dropped that in and submitted again. Thanks
  3. On the new Where can I find my synced tabs? section:

    Assuming the content is OK (and I would rather have someone else look it over who actually uses Sync) you'll still need to make another edit based on your last revision. I see you left out {for mac} here:

    This can be accessed from {for linux}the History Menu{/for}{for win}Firefox > History{/for}
    

    What I always do when making an edit that involves {for} markup is to switch to the different versions using the version picker. In this case, choosing Mac OS X you'll see right away that there is something missing after "from". In this case, you're missing the History menu when you check the article content for Mac. However, WinXP also accesses the History menu from the Menu bar by default. See Display the Firefox button menu instead of the menu toolbar for details.

    What I would do is to simply say, This can be accessed from the {menu History} menu.

    If you want to explain how to get to the History menu in different OS's there's actually a template that you can "steal from". If you check the source of /kb/templateopenhistorylibrary you can use this code:

    {for win7,win8}At the top of the Firefox window, click the {button Firefox} button and go over to the {menu History} menu.{/for}{for mac}On the menu bar, click the {menu History} menu .{/for}{for linux,winxp}At the top of the Firefox window, click the {menu History} menu.{/for}

    On the new '''Where can I find my synced tabs?''' section: Assuming the content is OK (and I would rather have someone else look it over who actually uses Sync) you'll still need to make another edit based on your last revision. I see you left out {for mac} here: This can be accessed from {for linux}the History Menu{/for}{for win}Firefox > History{/for} What I always do when making an edit that involves {for} markup is to switch to the different versions using the version picker. In this case, choosing Mac OS X you'll see right away that there is something missing after "from". In this case, you're missing the History menu when you check the article content for Mac. However, WinXP also accesses the History menu from the Menu bar by default. See [[Display the Firefox button menu instead of the menu toolbar]] for details. What I would do is to simply say, This can be accessed from the {menu History} menu. If you want to explain how to get to the History menu in different OS's there's actually a template that you can "steal from". If you check the source of [/kb/templateopenhistorylibrary] you can use this code: {for win7,win8}At the top of the Firefox window, click the {button Firefox} button and go over to the {menu History} menu.{/for}{for mac}On the menu bar, click the {menu History} menu .{/for}{for linux,winxp}At the top of the Firefox window, click the {menu History} menu.{/for}

    Modified by AliceWyman on

  4. more options

    Sync can successfully be used to back-up data on one PC prior to a reformat or the installation of a new operating system. but it seems that users we see in SUMO had no concept of the importance of the Sync / Recovery Key and didn't Print a copy of the final Sync Set Up dialog box. Without a copy of that Key or them using Sync on another device they are SOL as far as recovering their data.

    Mozilla Sync seems to be unique among the "clouds" and browser data synchronizing services out there by having a third security credential to access their data on the Sync Servers and to connect to those servers. A credential that they don't "make up them self", one that is auto-generated by the Sync system. And one that is far from the usual "first pet's name", "mother's maiden", etc that might be able to be retrieved from online social networking data. IMO, the concept is sound, but the implementation leaves much to be desired.

    That is where users are having a problem, way too often. And I suspected that this was going to be a problem in Nov / Dec 2010 when a new version of Weave / Sync was introduced that eliminated the original "passphrase" as the 3rd credential, and started using the current 26 character auto-generated Sync / Recovery Key.
    https://wiki.mozilla.org/Labs/Weave/Crypto
    How many people can remember their own drivers license number? Or SS#? How many can remember their 16 digit debit / credit card number (that they routinely type into online order forms)?
    I can remember all three. Being that my SS# was also my military service ID number, that I have had a drivers license for 48 years, and I have been doing phone and online purchasing for over thirty years - but I still can't remember the CV# that changes every 3 to 4 years, when the card is renewed.
    From the number of people I have watched incorrectly copy those numbers down on a form that they were filing out when I was applying for something, and I told them that they transposed a pair of numbers or skipped a digit in the one triple number sequence I have in one of those sets of numbers. They always express surprise that I "know" those ID numbers, so I know that I am far from average with remembering those numbers.

    State of the art, industrial-strength security credentials is good in theory, but when your average-user has so little knowledge of the operating system they are using, that they can't even print anything without having a Print button or a contextual-menu Print item in a program, the developers are setting things up for massive misunderstandings or for complete failure, IMO.

    I was collecting screenshots and had started a "how-to" to guide users thru the use of Sync up until that change of the 3rd credential, but decided not to follow thru on the completion of that guide because I lost faith in the Weave / Sync project with that change.

    IMO, under - What does it do? - I feel at the end of that paragraph there should be a specific message that Sync isn't intended to be a "cloud" or a service to be used for backing up their data for purposes of reformatting or installing a new operating system.
    Two common mis-uses if Sync.
    And I think that message needs to be on every Sync support article, maybe at the bottom of the other Sync support articles as a disclaimer, of sorts.

    Yes, that is a negative "feature" and support articles inform the user of features, how different features work, etc; generally all positive, reinforcing descriptions. But Sync doesn't work as users "expect" or as other seemingly similar services work, so I think this "warning" or disclaimer is very important.

    Sync can successfully be used to back-up data on one PC prior to a reformat or the installation of a new operating system. but it seems that users we see in SUMO had no concept of the importance of the Sync / Recovery Key and didn't Print a copy of the final Sync Set Up dialog box. Without a copy of that Key or them using Sync on another device they are SOL as far as recovering their data. Mozilla Sync seems to be unique among the "clouds" and browser data synchronizing services out there by having a third security credential to access their data on the Sync Servers and to connect to those servers. A credential that they don't "make up them self", one that is auto-generated by the Sync system. And one that is far from the usual "first pet's name", "mother's maiden", etc that might be able to be retrieved from online social networking data. IMO, the concept is sound, but the implementation leaves much to be desired. '''''That''''' is where users are having a problem, way too often. And I suspected that this was going to be a problem in Nov / Dec 2010 when a new version of Weave / Sync was introduced that eliminated the original "passphrase" as the 3rd credential, and started using the current 26 character auto-generated Sync / Recovery Key. <br /> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Labs/Weave/Crypto <br /> How many people can remember their own drivers license number? Or SS#? How many can remember their 16 digit debit / credit card number ''(that they routinely type into online order forms)''? <br /> ''I can remember all three. Being that my SS# was also my military service ID number, that I have had a drivers license for 48 years, and I have been doing phone and online purchasing for over thirty years - but I still can't remember the CV# that changes every 3 to 4 years, when the card is renewed.<br /> From the number of people I have watched incorrectly copy those numbers down on a form that they were filing out when I was applying for something, and I told them that they transposed a pair of numbers or skipped a digit in the one triple number sequence I have in one of those sets of numbers. They always express surprise that I "know" those ID numbers, so I know that I am far from average with remembering those numbers.'' State of the art, industrial-strength security credentials is good in theory, but when your average-user has so little knowledge of the operating system they are using, that they can't even print anything without having a Print button or a contextual-menu Print item in a program, the developers are setting things up for massive misunderstandings or for complete failure, IMO. ''I was collecting screenshots and had started a "how-to" to guide users thru the use of Sync up until that change of the 3rd credential, but decided not to follow thru on the completion of that guide because I lost faith in the Weave / Sync project with that change.'' IMO, under - '''What does it do?''' - I feel at the end of that paragraph there should be a specific message that Sync isn't intended to be a "cloud" or a service to be used for backing up their data for purposes of reformatting or installing a new operating system. <br /> Two common mis-uses if Sync. <br /> And I think that message needs to be on every Sync support article, maybe at the bottom of the other Sync support articles as a disclaimer, of sorts. Yes, that is a negative "feature" and support articles inform the user of features, how different features work, etc; generally all positive, reinforcing descriptions. But Sync doesn't work as users "expect" or as other seemingly similar services work, so I think this "warning" or disclaimer is very important.
  5. AliceWyman said

    If you want to explain how to get to the History menu in different OS's there's actually a template that you can "steal from". If you check the source of /kb/templateopenhistorylibrary you can use this code: {for win7,win8}At the top of the Firefox window, click the {button Firefox} button and go over to the {menu History} menu.{/for}{for mac}On the menu bar, click the {menu History} menu .{/for}{for linux,winxp}At the top of the Firefox window, click the {menu History} menu.{/for}

    Thanks. I've added that code in.

    I still don't have access to a Mac for taking screenshots of the 'Tabs from Other Devices' page or the Sync Preferences page. But I can take a screenshot for Windows tonight.

    Would either of you be able to take the Mac screenshots? If not I've got a friend with a Mac. I can ask him to do them.

    the-edmeister said

    Sync can successfully be used to back-up data on one PC prior to a reformat or the installation of a new operating system. but it seems that users we see in SUMO had no concept of the importance of the Sync / Recovery Key and didn't Print a copy of the final Sync Set Up dialog box. Without a copy of that Key or them using Sync on another device they are SOL as far as recovering their data. ... IMO, under - What does it do? - I feel at the end of that paragraph there should be a specific message that Sync isn't intended to be a "cloud" or a service to be used for backing up their data for purposes of reformatting or installing a new operating system.
    Two common mis-uses if Sync.
    And I think that message needs to be on every Sync support article, maybe at the bottom of the other Sync support articles as a disclaimer, of sorts.

    I also had no idea that you could do that (or really any idea of what the recovery key was for). Interesting thanks.

    Agreed about the disclaimer. I've answered several forum support requests asking about how to get their data back after wiping a hard drive etc. People seem to expect it to be a backup service and don't realise their mistake until it is too late.

    ''AliceWyman [[#post-8832|said]]'' <blockquote> If you want to explain how to get to the History menu in different OS's there's actually a template that you can "steal from". If you check the source of [/kb/templateopenhistorylibrary] you can use this code: {for win7,win8}At the top of the Firefox window, click the {button Firefox} button and go over to the {menu History} menu.{/for}{for mac}On the menu bar, click the {menu History} menu .{/for}{for linux,winxp}At the top of the Firefox window, click the {menu History} menu.{/for} </blockquote> Thanks. I've added that code in. I still don't have access to a Mac for taking screenshots of the 'Tabs from Other Devices' page or the Sync Preferences page. But I can take a screenshot for Windows tonight. Would either of you be able to take the Mac screenshots? If not I've got a friend with a Mac. I can ask him to do them. ''the-edmeister [[#post-8835|said]]'' <blockquote> Sync can successfully be used to back-up data on one PC prior to a reformat or the installation of a new operating system. but it seems that users we see in SUMO had no concept of the importance of the Sync / Recovery Key and didn't Print a copy of the final Sync Set Up dialog box. Without a copy of that Key or them using Sync on another device they are SOL as far as recovering their data. ... IMO, under - '''What does it do?''' - I feel at the end of that paragraph there should be a specific message that Sync isn't intended to be a "cloud" or a service to be used for backing up their data for purposes of reformatting or installing a new operating system. <br /> Two common mis-uses if Sync. <br /> And I think that message needs to be on every Sync support article, maybe at the bottom of the other Sync support articles as a disclaimer, of sorts. </blockquote> I also had no idea that you could do that (or really any idea of what the recovery key was for). Interesting thanks. Agreed about the disclaimer. I've answered several forum support requests asking about how to get their data back after wiping a hard drive etc. People seem to expect it to be a backup service and don't realise their mistake until it is too late.
  6. more options

    We need to make it very clear in any and all Sync support articles that Sync isn't intended to be used as a backup service for the purpose of storing data while the user reformats the only device they are using Sync with. We have had far too many postings about Sync being used for that purpose, and the user didn't have their Sync Key / Recovery Key. IMO, that is a fatal flaw with Sync!

    A negative statement or not, we need to make users aware of this, because it is an unrealistic expectation that users will understand the importance of saving their Sync Key / Recovery Key when they first setup Sync.


    Yes, it is possible to use it in that manner, but without the Recovery Key / Sync Key their data is worthless, and the Sync server wipes their data when they request a new Sync Key because it is worthless without the correct encryption key.


    Ed

    We need to make it very clear in any and all Sync support articles that '''Sync isn't intended to be used as a backup service for the purpose of storing data while the user reformats the only device they are using Sync with'''. We have had far too many postings about Sync being used for that purpose, and the user didn't have their Sync Key / Recovery Key. IMO, that is a fatal flaw with Sync! A negative statement or not, we need to make users aware of this, because it is an unrealistic expectation that users will understand the importance of saving their Sync Key / Recovery Key when they first setup Sync. ------ Yes, it is possible to use it in that manner, but without the Recovery Key / Sync Key their data is worthless, and the Sync server wipes their data when they request a new Sync Key because it is worthless without the correct encryption key. Ed