Hi guys,
I was exploring if tags would be the right tool to keep track of new issues around release time. Currently this release there are some new features I was hoping to try to track with tags. Please do express your opinion on this idea as it may prove useful for tracking, but I have not thought of uses for the forum.
So far the ideas are:
Hello -> used to track all questions about hello/loop.
Apps -> for questions about the new apps feature released in this version
Future questions of usefulness to moderators
Bugx -> Bug and then the number associated
easy/hardquestion -> marked for new contributors to find an easy question or hard question to try
You might start seeing more tags in the future as a heads up as there is also work happening in android for this as well as tracking unanswered questions. All ideas to add or what tags can be used for, please do share.
Hi guys,
I was exploring if tags would be the right tool to keep track of new issues around release time. Currently this release there are some new features I was hoping to try to track with tags. Please do express your opinion on this idea as it may prove useful for tracking, but I have not thought of uses for the forum.
So far the ideas are:
Hello -> used to track all questions about hello/loop.
Apps -> for questions about the new apps feature released in this version
Future questions of usefulness to moderators
Bugx -> Bug and then the number associated
easy/hardquestion -> marked for new contributors to find an easy question or hard question to try
You might start seeing more tags in the future as a heads up as there is also work happening in android for this as well as tracking unanswered questions. All ideas to add or what tags can be used for, please do share.
Hi Rachel aka guigs2 so you have the following tags so far for this purpose:
hello
apps
bugx e.g. bug12345678
easyquestion
hardquestion
Could you please post a link to a document (wiki page, etherpad, googe doc, whatever i don't care which tool you use!) with the full list of tags you are thinking about for this purpose, pretty please :-) ?
Hi guys,
I was exploring if tags would be the right tool to keep track of new issues around release time. Currently this release there are some new features I was hoping to try to track with tags. Please do express your opinion on this idea as it may prove useful for tracking, but I have not thought of uses for the forum.
So far the ideas are:
Hello -> used to track all questions about hello/loop.
Apps -> for questions about the new apps feature released in this version
Future questions of usefulness to moderators
Bugx -> Bug and then the number associated
easy/hardquestion -> marked for new contributors to find an easy question or hard question to try
You might start seeing more tags in the future as a heads up as there is also work happening in android for this as well as tracking unanswered questions. All ideas to add or what tags can be used for, please do share.
Hi Rachel aka guigs2 so you have the following tags so far for this purpose:
* hello
*apps
*bugx e.g. bug12345678
*easyquestion
*hardquestion
Could you please post a link to a document (wiki page, etherpad, googe doc, whatever i don't care which tool you use!) with the full list of tags you are thinking about for this purpose, pretty please :-) ?
''guigs2 [[#post-63626|said]]''
<blockquote>
Hi guys,
I was exploring if tags would be the right tool to keep track of new issues around release time. Currently this release there are some new features I was hoping to try to track with tags. Please do express your opinion on this idea as it may prove useful for tracking, but I have not thought of uses for the forum.
So far the ideas are:
Hello -> used to track all questions about hello/loop.
Apps -> for questions about the new apps feature released in this version
Future questions of usefulness to moderators
Bugx -> Bug and then the number associated
easy/hardquestion -> marked for new contributors to find an easy question or hard question to try
You might start seeing more tags in the future as a heads up as there is also work happening in android for this as well as tracking unanswered questions. All ideas to add or what tags can be used for, please do share.
</blockquote>
I agree that if we are to start using new tags we need some up-to-date listing of them.
I also wonder do we even need a formal tag ?
Just entering BugX {where X is the bug number} as text could be even more useful.
We have boolean search now. If the text were just entered in the question, we could search for hardquestion + hello + Bug123456
AFAIK it is NOT possible to do that with a tags search. The tag search limits us to a single tag, and no other search terms.
Of course such a search returns in hits that could include ordinary use of such words, but it would be easy to instead add unique words. Maybe prefix with Tag, PseudoTag or NoTag i.e.
NoTagHello, NoTagBug12345, NoTagApps etc.
Advantages of Text Tags.
Ordinary users, none Admins could use such a system.
Not polluting the tags list with an un-discoverable ever growing number of tags.
Avoid more admin work: Manual update of the list. ( Do Admins have any method of listing all tags ? )
Encourage use and therefore maintenance and fixing of our much neglected sumo advanced search feature.
EDIT although of course basic search and Google search now hobbled, on breaking issues. But ok if solved google hit
Disadvantages
I am not sure I see any; other than the converse of the above; eg, everyone can use such a system, and utilising advanced search may be advantageous.
I agree that if we are to start using new tags we need some up-to-date listing of them.
'''I also wonder do we even need a formal tag ?'''
Just entering BugX {where X is the bug number} as text could be even more useful.
We have boolean search now. If the text were just entered in the question, we could search for ''hardquestion + hello + Bug123456''
AFAIK it is NOT possible to do that with a tags search. The tag search limits us to a single tag, and no other search terms.
Of course such a search returns in hits that could include ordinary use of such words, but it would be easy to instead add unique words. Maybe prefix with ''Tag'', PseudoTag or ''NoTag'' i.e.
NoTagHello, NoTagBug12345, NoTagApps etc.
Advantages of Text ''Tags''.
*Ordinary users, none Admins could use such a system.
*Not polluting the tags list with an un-discoverable ever growing number of tags.
*Avoid more admin work: Manual update of the list. <br />( Do Admins have any method of listing all tags ? )
*Encourage use and therefore maintenance and fixing of our much neglected sumo [[using advanced search|advanced search]] feature.
* Still usable with basic search due to unique words e.g [/search?q=pseudotag]
** EDIT ''although of course basic search and Google search now hobbled, on breaking issues. <br /> But ok if solved [https://www.google.com/search?&q=%22pseudotag%22+site%3A+support.mozilla.org&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F14%2F2015%2Ccd_max%3A&tbm= google hit]''
Disadvantages
I am not sure I see any; other than the converse of the above; eg, everyone can use such a system, and utilising advanced search may be advantageous.
Having bug numbers as tags would be pretty awesome.
I know Rachel is working to have that tag list available, let's make sure the document is open for everybody to see it (I think that there is quite a huge number of tags)
Having bug numbers as tags would be pretty awesome.
I know Rachel is working to have that tag list available, let's make sure the document is open for everybody to see it (I think that there is quite a huge number of tags)
I may be naive, mainly because the idea and proposal is so far rather lacking in details. I find it hard to envisige a useful purpose for the resurrection of tags.
Having bug numbers as tags would be pretty awesome
Anyone wish to make a use case | user story for using a bugnnnn tag, that does anything that adding it as text would not enable.
(Unless bugzilla and sumo forum interact, which sounds like a whole different topic, with a lot of SumoDev time for unidentified benefits )
Besides a handful of tags identifying hardware/software and forum status flags; what use are tags ?
And remember everyone using such a tag needs to to be aware of the bug name there is nothing magical about the bug number otherwise; and certainly nothing to suggest what it relates to other than that it is a bug.
I am all for tracking breaking issues especially around Releases, just do not see tags as the ideal method. Also do not forget we also have topics !
I may be naive, mainly because the idea and proposal is so far rather lacking in details. I find it hard to envisige a useful purpose for the resurrection of tags.
<blockquote>Having bug numbers as tags would be pretty awesome</blockquote>
*Anyone wish to make a <br /> use case | user story <br /> for using a bugnnnn tag, that does anything that adding it as text would not enable.
** (Unless bugzilla and sumo forum interact, which sounds like a whole different topic, with a lot of SumoDev time for unidentified benefits )
*Besides a handful of tags identifying hardware/software and forum status flags; what use are tags ?
And remember everyone using such a tag needs to to be aware of the bug name there is nothing magical about the bug number otherwise; and certainly nothing to suggest what it relates to other than that it is a bug.
I am all for tracking breaking issues especially around Releases, just do not see tags as the ideal method. Also do not forget we also have topics !
I know Rachel is working to have that tag list available, let's make sure the document is open for everybody to see it (I think that there is quite a huge number of tags)
Remember only Admins may add tags.
An admin will need to be on hand to add new tags as required 24/7
The huge list will rapidly grow, just adding bug numbers and breaking issues will be quite a task.
Which Admin is taking up responsibility for this ?
''Madasan [[#post-63675|said]]''
<blockquote>
I know Rachel is working to have that tag list available, let's make sure the document is open for everybody to see it (I think that there is quite a huge number of tags)
</blockquote>
* Remember only Admins may add tags.
* An admin will need to be on hand to add new tags as required 24/7
* The huge list will rapidly grow, just adding bug numbers and breaking issues will be quite a task.
* Which Admin is taking up responsibility for this ?
tags don't cost anything; i.e. they don't take up database space or columns or records in a data structure, so having 1 or 1000 doesn't tax the server
tags can be created by admins and mods (the ability to do this for mods was just added by kadir and madalina)
tags don't have to be "managed" by anybody; just have admins and mods agree on a tag structure
tags work really well for low tech categorizing on systems like get satisfaction, flickr, twitter and instagram and bugzilla (whiteboard and keywords work well)
i think we should retain them and expand use of tags; i know it was de-emphasized in the past but i don't see how it can't hurt to systematically tag things even if it's just for the 1st few days of the 6 week release cycle.
finally i agree though that the use of tags for tagging unsanwered questions should be better documented and i believe madalina and rachel are in the process of doing it (and perhaps should have done this kind of documenting this "new phase" of tags process more in the open)
cheers!
...Roland
hi john99
i don't think this is a big deal because:
# tags don't cost anything; i.e. they don't take up database space or columns or records in a data structure, so having 1 or 1000 doesn't tax the server
# tags can be created by admins and mods (the ability to do this for mods was just added by kadir and madalina)
# tags don't have to be "managed" by anybody; just have admins and mods agree on a tag structure
tags work really well for low tech categorizing on systems like get satisfaction, flickr, twitter and instagram and bugzilla (whiteboard and keywords work well)
i think we should retain them and expand use of tags; i know it was de-emphasized in the past but i don't see how it can't hurt to systematically tag things even if it's just for the 1st few days of the 6 week release cycle.
finally i agree though that the use of tags for tagging unsanwered questions should be better documented and i believe madalina and rachel are in the process of doing it (and perhaps should have done this kind of documenting this "new phase" of tags process more in the open)
cheers!
...Roland
Yes no big deal using Tags.
Althoug it seems rather a you u-turn given they were nearly deprecated not long ago, and that we then introduced Topics, which are now in a mess.
We are increasing use of tags but how far ahead have we thought with where this is going.
What if any other changes to the tag system are being planned ?
I do not recall seeing discussion or notification of the change whereby Mods may add tags. Are you able to provide links please ?
How do we as Mods do this ?
Are we as Mods now able to list all existing tags ?
How do we (All users) search for tagged questions ? Rather pointless having tags and not being able to do searches & listings
and what about searching for multiple tags ?
or tags and some other search term e.g. a word or a topic ?
Hi Roland,
Yes no big deal using Tags.
Althoug it seems rather a you u-turn given they were nearly deprecated not long ago, and that we then introduced Topics, which are now in a mess.
We are increasing use of tags but how far ahead have we thought with where this is going.
*What if any other changes to the tag system are being planned ?
*I do not recall seeing discussion or notification of the change whereby Mods may add tags. Are you able to provide links please ?
**How do we as Mods do this ?
** Are we as Mods now able to list all existing tags ?
* How do we (All users) search for tagged questions ? <br /> Rather pointless having tags and not being able to do searches & listings
**and what about searching for multiple tags ?
**or tags and some other search term e.g. a word or a topic ?
You can use Advanced Search to find questions containing certain tags but see these open bugs: Bug 840275 - Make SUMO search non case-sensitive for usernames & tags and Bug 984134 - Add ability to search by tags using OR (in addition to AND)
If you type a letter in the Tags field, you'll see a partial list of tags containing that letter. What we need is a list of all current tags we can add or search on.
tags can be created by admins and mods (the ability to do this for mods was just added by kadir and madalina)
I didn't know that. Was it announced anywhere? Gotta bug #?
''John99 [[#post-63683|said]]''
<blockquote>
* How do we (All users) search for tagged questions ?
</blockquote>
*If you are looking at a question or list of questions, you can click on one of the tags to get a list of other questions with that tag.
*You can enter ''?tagged={name of tag}'' to the end of the URL for one of the product support forums to search for questions with that tag, for example, https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/firefox?tagged=crashes
*You can use [/search/advanced Advanced Search] to find questions containing certain tags but see these open bugs: ''[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=840275 Bug 840275] - Make SUMO search non case-sensitive for usernames & tags'' and ''[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=984134 Bug 984134] - Add ability to search by tags using OR (in addition to AND)''
If you type a letter in the Tags field, you'll see a partial list of tags containing that letter. What we need is a list of all current tags we can add or search on.
''Roland Tanglao [[#post-63681|said]]''
<blockquote>
tags can be created by admins and mods (the ability to do this for mods was just added by kadir and madalina)
</blockquote>
I didn't know that. Was it announced anywhere? Gotta bug #?
I created a new tag and added it "defection" May come in useful e.g how many solutions are actually users giving up and migrating to an alternative browser.
I will cross link from with tag experiment posts
New tag: '''DEFECTION'''
''John99 [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1040833?page=3#answer-678515 said]''
<blockquote>
I created a new tag and added it "''defection''" May come in useful e.g how many solutions are actually users giving up and migrating to an alternative browser.
I will cross link from with tag experiment [/forums/contributors/711014 posts]
</blockquote>
We are gong to need not only a list of the tags but also a description of their purpose. Whiteboard words often have very specific uses and meanings.
I note there is a tag HELPDESK , who created that and what is it for ?
No point in having tags that we do not understand the use of, that only add confusion.
We are gong to need not only a list of the tags but also a description of their purpose. Whiteboard words often have very specific uses and meanings.
I note there is a tag HELPDESK , who created that and what is it for ?
No point in having tags that we do not understand the use of, that only add confusion.
I created a new tag and added it "defection" May come in useful e.g how many solutions are actually users giving up and migrating to an alternative browser.
I created 2 new tags, Mac OS X 10.9 and Mac OS X 10.10 (typed them into the TAGS field and clicked the Add button ... so easy!) since the current Mac tags only went up to OS X 10.8.
We are gong to need not only a list of the tags but also a description of their purpose. Whiteboard words often have very specific uses and meanings.<snip>
No point in having tags that we do not understand the use of, that only add confusion.
It will be hard getting a list of tags AND their purpose. With new tags being added right and left, a list may also be out of the question.
To me, the "defection" tag would fall into the "confusing" category since I would have no idea what it means if I hadn't seen your explanation. Other tags are just silly, like "tomato", which I noticed a long time ago in the tags list. A related issue: I suppose only admin can delete a tag? We have to be very careful creating tags to watch out for spelling, spacing and capitalization; otherwise, we'll have duplicate tags for the same thing.
''John99 [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1040833?page=3#answer-678515 said]''
<blockquote>I created a new tag and added it "''defection''" May come in useful e.g how many solutions are actually users giving up and migrating to an alternative browser.
</blockquote>
I created 2 new tags, '''Mac OS X 10.9''' and '''Mac OS X 10.10''' (typed them into the TAGS field and clicked the Add button ... so easy!) since the current Mac tags only went up to OS X 10.8.
''John99 [[#post-63696|said]]''
<blockquote>We are gong to need not only a list of the tags but also a description of their purpose. Whiteboard words often have very specific uses and meanings.<snip>
No point in having tags that we do not understand the use of, that only add confusion.
</blockquote>
It will be hard getting a list of tags AND their purpose. With new tags being added right and left, a list may also be out of the question.
To me, the "defection" tag would fall into the "confusing" category since I would have no idea what it means if I hadn't seen your explanation. Other tags are just silly, like "tomato", which I noticed a long time ago in the tags list. A related issue: I suppose only admin can delete a tag? We have to be very careful creating tags to watch out for spelling, spacing and capitalization; otherwise, we'll have duplicate tags for the same thing.
That is a point Phillip. But by the time any such tag is used the thread will have been closed. It is also a tag unlikely to be misused for other purposes.
An alternative maybe support-failure-migration, what would you suggest? Of course it would seem sensible to save space and keep tags short so maybe a more cryptic def5n
As I said earlier we really do need a listing with tag names and intended purposes.
Meanwhile I have removed the tag from the thread.
That is a point Phillip. But by the time any such tag is used the thread will have been closed. It is also a tag unlikely to be misused for other purposes.
An alternative maybe ''support-failure-migration'', what would you suggest? Of course it would seem sensible to save space and keep tags short so maybe a more cryptic '''def5n'''
As I said earlier we really do need a listing with tag names and intended purposes.
Meanwhile I have removed the tag from the thread.
As I said earlier we really do need a listing with tag names and intended purposes.
As I said earlier, It will be hard getting a list of tags AND their purpose. With new tags being added right and left, a list may also be out of the question.
Meanwhile I have removed the tag from the thread.
Even though you removed the "defection" tag from the thread, it's still available in the TAGS list.
''philipp [[#post-63698|said]]''
<blockquote>
john, i don't think that we should tag any user's question with "defection" as this term has a very negative connotation...
</blockquote>
I agree. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defection Defection ("Defector")]
''John99 [[#post-63702|said]]''<blockquote>
As I said earlier we really do need a listing with tag names and intended purposes.
</blockquote>
As I said earlier, ''It will be hard getting a list of tags AND their purpose. With new tags being added right and left, a list may also be out of the question.''
<blockquote>
Meanwhile I have removed the tag from the thread.
</blockquote>
Even though you removed the "defection" tag from the thread, it's still available in the TAGS list.
Yes I realise that the tag is still there, and I said from the start tags can soon get messy and difficult to use with no controlling list of their purpose.
I imagine that is one reason they nearly got deprecated, and why I was surprised to see undocumented tags have already been added.
I did post in this thread when I added the tag.
On the subject of defection or whatever pc name is used I think that is something to try to track especially, or specifically, where it is the chosen solution and so web searches index it.
I am fairly certain there will be many other cases where the chosen solution is to swap browsers, tagging those threads seems a good idea and a good use of tags.
Yes I realise that the tag is still there, and I said from the start tags can soon get messy and difficult to use with no controlling list of their purpose.
I imagine that is one reason they nearly got deprecated, and why I was surprised to see undocumented tags have already been added.
I did post in this thread when I added the tag.
On the subject of defection or whatever pc name is used I think that is something to try to track especially, or specifically, where it is the chosen solution and so web searches index it.
I am fairly certain there will be many other cases where the chosen solution is to swap browsers, tagging those threads seems a good idea and a good use of tags.
''John99 [[#post-63706|said]]''
<blockquote>
I did post in this thread when I added the tag.
</blockquote>
I edited the two posts you made about tagging, [/questions/1040833?page=3#answer-678515] and [/questions/1040833?page=3#answer-678518] (you can view the content by using the edit or quote button) but I really think you should delete them.
We have to be very careful creating tags to watch out for spelling, spacing and capitalization; otherwise, we'll have duplicate tags for the same thing.
i just produced a typo and now we have an "offtoüic" tag :-/
so i guess some facility or procedure to remove wrong or unused tags is necessary...
''AliceWyman [[#post-63701|said]]''
<blockquote>
We have to be very careful creating tags to watch out for spelling, spacing and capitalization; otherwise, we'll have duplicate tags for the same thing.
</blockquote>
i just produced a typo and now we have an "offtoüic" tag :-/
so i guess some facility or procedure to remove wrong or unused tags is necessary...
Ok I have deleted the two posts but I still think we should have a policy that
Generally if someone adds a tag to a thread, they should mention it in that thread.
And definitely and specifically If someone adds a new tag they should document it by mentioning it.
Additionally we could even use tags themselves to document that. Have some agreed new tag say taglist or tagcreated and tag the thread with that when a new tag is created and added.
and of course discuss and let people know what the guidelines are
What by the way is the tag helpdesk intended for and who created it.
I guess we need to improve the tag creation process, warn and ask for confirmation before creating a new tag, so that we do not get accidental tag creation.
''AliceWyman [[#post-63707|said]]''
<blockquote>
''John99 [[#post-63706|said]]''
<blockquote>
I did post in this thread when I added the tag.
</blockquote>
I edited the two posts you made about tagging, [/questions/1040833?page=3#answer-678515] and [/questions/1040833?page=3#answer-678518] (you can view the content by using the edit or quote button) but I really think you should delete them.
</blockquote>
Ok I have deleted the two posts but I still think we should have a policy that
* Generally if someone adds a tag to a thread, they should mention it in that thread.
*And definitely and specifically If someone adds a new tag they should document it by mentioning it.
* Additionally we could even use tags themselves to document that.<br /> Have some agreed new tag say '''''taglist''''' or ''tagcreated'' and tag the thread with that when a new tag is created and added.
** and of course discuss and let people know what the guidelines are
What by the way is the tag '''helpdesk''' intended for and who created it.
------
I guess we need to improve the tag creation process, warn and ask for confirmation before creating a new tag, so that we do not get accidental tag creation.
Ok I have deleted the two posts but I still think we should have a policy that
Generally if someone adds a tag to a thread, they should mention it in that thread.
And definitely and specifically If someone adds a new tag they should document it by mentioning it.
I don't think that's a good idea. For one thing it wouldn't be helping the OP to get emails about tags added to his thread. If modertors want to ducument adding new tags, it should be in a contributor doc or thread.
I guess we need to improve the tag creation process, warn and ask for confirmation before creating a new tag, so that we do not get accidental tag creation.
I agree with that.
''John99 [[#post-63721|said]]''
<blockquote>Ok I have deleted the two posts but I still think we should have a policy that
* Generally if someone adds a tag to a thread, they should mention it in that thread.
*And definitely and specifically If someone adds a new tag they should document it by mentioning it.
</blockquote>
I don't think that's a good idea. For one thing it wouldn't be helping the OP to get emails about tags added to his thread. If modertors want to ducument adding new tags, it should be in a contributor doc or thread.
<blockquote>I guess we need to improve the tag creation process, warn and ask for confirmation before creating a new tag, so that we do not get accidental tag creation.
</blockquote>
I agree with that.
