Toad-Hall, thank you very much for the instructions. I could not agree more with the criticisms here.

Since I need to make this change on several machines, I wrote a simple bash script to create the userChrome.css file. If it can help ease the pain for anyone, feel free: https://gist.github.com/JChristensen/9ffc211d52a70d51e76bc0fa2b486c8c

Many thanks for this. I am among the many who woke up a couple of days ago to find Thunderbird gone mad. This kind of idiocy is exactly why I stick happily with Mint Linux. I can count on one hand how many times an update seriously damaged something.

Now, how can I get rid of that dumb cloud icon at top left and replace it with "Get messages"?

That worked - thank you so very much.

I have another two bugs - SuperNova Thunderbird seems to have split my email xxxx@gmail.com into two columns as Unified Folders and All Folders. I know I can hide either one in the folders drop down menu, but the problem is I have a large number of sub folders and Thunderbird has decided to split them up and half of them are in Unified Folders under Archives and the other half of them are in All Folders under All Mail. All my sub folders used to be in the same Unified/Archives prior to this SuperNova.

Second bug is that the Quick Filters used to be expanded on the Open Space menu and so took up no more room. Now in SuperNova it can only be a button and if I want to leave it expanded its re-positioned at the top of my inbox column (I use vertical layout) and pushes the inbox message headers down the page more. If possible, I'd like to put it back where it was expaned and taking up the leftover space on the Open Space menu bar.

I can only hope that the developers involved with this change get the message that is expressed in this thread.

Kudos to TH for his sugestion. I can confirm it also works with putting the toolbar in the correct location if that tool bar is a separate tool bar and not embedded in the Unified toolbar.

Kudos to lbecker and the comment "it's just that any changes made to Thunderbird's "look and feel" should be for substantial reasons." And let me expand on suzannethompson's comment "that some of us like things "the way they were" esp. visually." We are not just a bunch of old fogies resistant to change. This change also changes the design of the TB windows so it is different from the basic design used in most other linux applications, or as rockney85881 said, "extremely non-standard and dumb". Sometimes historical perspective is of value. If windows have been designed with a certain look and feel for a long time, maybe there is a reason for it. Thta does not mean change is never called for but it does return us to, what were the "substancial reasons" for the change, other than some newbies (less than 40 year experience) personal inclination as to what they thought was pretty.

The standard design is based on a sound foundation organization. The system title bar deals with the window. The more detailed menu bar deals with the more specific application wide commands. Thje more specific tool bar deals with the more specific commands for the current functionality of the app (in this case, mail, calender, address book, etc).

I do not think anyone here even objects of adding the new design as an option (and in its initial introduction, such a change should not be the default option).

I hope getting this corrected will not be impossible and KH's belief that "it's to do with developers coming up with a design and egos get hurt when people do not like it, so basically they say - get used to it." Yes KH I found your instructions very easy to follow. But most people do not read forums like this and even if they did, this is well above their tech capabilities.

If the problem is egos, please people, put them aside. This is the kind of mistake any of us could have made, things like that sometimes happen. The mistake is not the problem, but not recognizing the mistake and dealing with it, that would be a problem. Hopefully the comments in this thread give a pretty good case this is not just a case of personal preference of what something looks like. And it is not a request that the new design be abandoned or not made available. And from what I see, fixing the problem is not a major task. Please, make the linux standard hierarchy the default (system title bar, menu bar, toolbar) and give users the option of unifying the system title and toolbars. Please do the win/win correction.

Let me just add that in addition to the fix that brings the menu bar back on top, this will bring the window min/max/close buttons back to the top: .titlebar-buttonbox-container {

 position: fixed;
 top: 0px;
 right: 0px;

}

Adding height: 19px !important; will make it smaller and fix the little overlap with buttons below, but I personally like it without this.

re : But most people do not read forums like this and even if they did, this is well above their tech capabilities.

If people can:

• follow simple instructions
• create a folder
• Copy and paste
• save a file

then it is not above peoples capabilities. No one has to create any code. It is a lot simpler than people may assume. I've had people of all ages saying how my instructions were easier than first imagined.

AS for most people do not read forums like these...This forum is accessed via a Help link in Thunderbird, so you would imagine this would be the first port of call for asking for help. You can tell it is well used by the immense volumn of questions.

I don’t want this thread to devolve into a session of mutual pats on the back, but I did want to quickly compliment azalea4va and other fellow commenters for their thoughtful, reasonable, and articulate contributions. Perhaps, taken as a whole, they will persuade the developers of our views. In closing, I hope the developers don’t get the sense that we are trying to beat up on them. I’d like to echo azalea4va’s comments in her closing paragraph: “If the problem is egos, please people, put them aside. This is the kind of mistake any of us could have made, things like that sometimes happen…. And it is not a request that the new design be abandoned or not made available….Please do the win/win correction.”

AS a heads up - No developer reads this forum - it's just me your are sending comment to.

TH, "follow simple instructions"

They are very simple instructions. But they are still beyond the comfort level of so many people that I deal with.

I'll go beyone that. IMHO, asking them to do this kind of thing is sending the wrong message.

I got a call the other day from someone claiming to be from CVS. They were reaching out to me as a customer to make sure something about how they handled by prescriptions was correct. The first thing they did was ask me what my birthday was so they knew the person that answerd the phone ws really me. (And it really was CVS.) What CVS did not consider was I had no idea they were actually CVS.

They were asking me to do something we tell people they should never do. I had no way of knowing for sure who the people were on the other end. They were asking me to reveal a piece of identifying information. Now maybe not a really crucial one, but one none the less. They could have just as easily been asking for my SS number. It was bad on CVS's part not for this particular instance of what they were asking for but from the larger perspective that it was encouraging customers to act in a manner that was risky with respect to protecting ones identity.

I do not want the average computer user going in and manipulating low-level configuration files. Even if they can follow your instructions, they do not understand what they are doing, they are just trying to blindly follow some instructions. Then Murphy comes along and all hell breaks loose. Maybe when they do the copy, they miss the first character in the script they need to copy and do not realize it (something I have done more than once). Now they could be faced with having to deal with something they have broken. If there is a functionality non-experts should have, if should be a functionality that allows them to access it through a user-freiendly interface that does not have them mucking about with low level config files where they could really muck stuff up.

So while the instructions given are a solution for me and the people communicating on this thread, they are not, IMHO, a solution for the masses.

I could go on but hopefully you can see where I am coming from. I understand the developers may not read this, but KH and others who have read this may be a communication channel to those developers for whom reading the comments here may be of use. I encourage them to direct them to this thread or at last share the sentiments expressed here.

When I look in the profile folder there is already a folder named ‘çhrome’. It contains two files ‘chrome.rdf’ and ‘install.php.xpi ‘, as well as a subfolder ‘overlayinfo’, which in turn contains two subfolders with only one file in the subfolder ‘messenger’ named ‘overlays.rdf.

To be sure, can I just put the file ‘userChrome.css’ in this existing folder ‘chrome’ after setting the ……….stylesheets to true?

When I look in the profile folder there is already a folder named ‘çhrome’. It contains two files ‘chrome.rdf’ and ‘install.php.xpi ‘, as well as a subfolder ‘overlayinfo’, which in turn contains two subfolders with only one file in the subfolder ‘messenger’ named ‘overlays.rdf. To be sure, can I just put the file ‘userChrome.css’ in this existing folder ‘chrome’ after setting the ……….stylesheets to true?

Those files are supposed to only exist in 'Mozilla Suite' and 'Seamonkey' and thats was from something a long time ago. Are you sure you followed my instructions on how to open the profile name folder ? Please post an image which shows those files in the chrome folder and make sure I can see the full path: eg: C://Users/user name/Appdata/Roaming/Thunderbird/Profiles/profile name/chrome

TH, "follow simple instructions" They are very simple instructions. But they are still beyond the comfort level of so many people that I deal with. True. The average person will feel it is beyond their abilities and for some it will be. But I have specialised for well over a decade in helping those kind of people to perform what is in reality not as difficult as it first looks. But you have to acknowledge some people just cannot follow instructions no matter how simple.

I do not want the average computer user going in and manipulating low-level configuration files. Even if they can follow your instructions, they do not understand what they are doing, they are just trying to blindly follow some instructions.

Sorry, but I have to disagree on that point :) I do not think it is your choice or right to decide on whether someone else has the right to follow instructions to fix a problem.

Maybe when they do the copy, they miss the first character in the script they need to copy and do not realize it (something I have done more than once). Now they could be faced with having to deal with something they have broken.

If the text I supplied is not copied exactly then nothing will happen - it simply will not work. It will not cause all havoc to occur. Plenty of times in this situation, I encourage people to post images and I tell them what is wrong and how to fix it. It is not the end of the world AND more importantly, I would not be supplying information and code which would cause a problem. I'm not a complete novice in this area.

If there is a functionality non-experts should have, if should be a functionality that allows them to access it through a user-friendly interface that does not have them mucking about with low level config files where they could really muck stuff up.

This we do agree on. I think this option should be made available in the Settings. But I've already tried to convince the powers that be to realise that on this issue they are not listening to a substantial group.

This question was not created to debate whether developers should listen to users on this particular topic OR whether some people can or cannot follow instructions or debate whether you think you have the right to tell other people they should not be allowed to follow such onstructions or whether the option should be in Settings in the firs place.

The sole reason for creating this question with a solution was to offer some means for people to take control over their version of Thunderbird.

Yes, I open the profile folder via the path you have indicated, Help- Trouble shooting info- etc,etc.

I imported the profile folder a couple of years ago from my old computer to my new computer. And did probably also the same many, many years ago with my old computer. Maybe that’s why old stuff is still in. Attached the screenshot of the chrome folder.

Ps You will see a few Dutch words (Gebruiker = User) in the attached files

I have managed to move the menu bar up to the top using the code provided. Thank you.

However, when I open a message already received, I open it in a new window rather than a tab. Unfortunately the menu bar is still below the toolbar in this particular window. Is there a workaround to get this the same as the rest of the program? I keep getting caught out when I go to File > Sav As.

Yes, I open the profile folder via the path you have indicated, Help- Trouble shooting info- etc,etc. I imported the profile folder a couple of years ago from my old computer to my new computer. And did probably also the same many, many years ago with my old computer. Maybe that’s why old stuff is still in. Attached the screenshot of the chrome folder. Ps You will see a few Dutch words (Gebruiker = User) in the attached files

Yes you are in the correct place. As you can see those files are not recent and the explanation you offered sounds highly likely. That 'chrome' folder is perfectly ok to use. Save 'userChromes.css' in that 'chrome' folder.

I have managed to move the menu bar up to the top using the code provided. Thank you. However, when I open a message already received, I open it in a new window rather than a tab. Unfortunately the menu bar is still below the toolbar in this particular window. Is there a workaround to get this the same as the rest of the program? I keep getting caught out when I go to File > Sav As.

Interesting. Testing: set settings to 'open in new window' Double click opens received mail in new window and my Menu Bar is still at the top.

Testing : set settings to 'An exisiting message window' Double click opens received mail in new window first time and my Menu Bar is still at the top. Select another email - double click opens in that same window and Menu Bar is at the top.

I'm using a Windows 10 OS. What OS are you using ?

If anyone else reads this - can you help by performing a simple test and report on results.

I have made some javascript code to move the window controls into the menu toolbar because I didn't see DeltaBlasts css yet.

If anyone is curious i have published it here on github: https://github.com/TayouVR/ThunderbirdTweaks

I am also attaching it here directly:

```js function moveElements() {

 // Find the first element with the class 'titlebar-buttonbox-container'
 const titlebarButtonBox = document.querySelector('.titlebar-buttonbox-container');

 // Find the container with the ID 'toolbar-menubar'
 const toolbarMenubar = document.getElementById('toolbar-menubar');

 // Check if both elements exist before moving
 if (titlebarButtonBox && toolbarMenubar) {

toolbarMenubar.classes += " unified-toolbar";

// Create a temporary container element to parse the HTML const spacer = document.createElement('spacer'); spacer.style.flex = '1 1 auto'; spacer.classList.add("skip-focus"); toolbarMenubar.appendChild(spacer);

   // Move the 'titlebar-buttonbox-container' element into 'toolbar-menubar'
   toolbarMenubar.appendChild(titlebarButtonBox);
 } else {
   console.error('One or both elements not found.');
 }

}

moveElements(); ```

-- this was duplicate to my first answer --

Sorry, it's me. I thought I was using the same piece of code which I must have picked up from elsewhere but I wasn't. I now see there are some subtle differences. I was using the following but, having replaced the top bit with your code Toad-Hall, it is working as it should. Apologies for being a nuisance.

/* Code for reorganising top menubar, tool bar and tabs in version 115 */

/* ####### */ @namespace html url("http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml");

1. toolbar-menubar {

  order: 1 !important;  

}

1. tabs-toolbar {

 order: 2; }
 

unified-toolbar {

 order: 3;             

}

Sorry, my mistake. I thought I was using the same code but I must have picked up something similar from somewhere else which was giving the trouble. I'd been using...

/* Code for reorganising top menubar, tool bar and tabs in version 115 */

/* ####### */ @namespace html url("http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml");

1. toolbar-menubar {

  order: 1 !important;  

}

1. tabs-toolbar {

 order: 2; }
 

unified-toolbar {

 order: 3;             

}

But I swapped the top bit out for your code Toad-Hall and all is working correctly.

Apoligies for being a nuisance.