used #[[T:Start Safe Mode]] and #[[T:Open Add-ons|type=Plugins]],
fixed nested lists,
fixed broken links.
[[Basic Troubleshooting]]
Here is a list of changes I made:
* fx35 replaced by not fx3 (see [/forums/contributors/704916#post-7539]),
* removed fx3 (same reference),
* used #[[T:Start Safe Mode]] and #[[T:Open Add-ons|type=Plugins]],
* fixed nested lists,
* fixed broken links.
Hey Scoobidiver - thanks for referencing that thread about Fx 3. David and I just discussed this on IRC and decided that we should drop support for Fx 3 now as we update articles.
Hey Scoobidiver - thanks for referencing that thread about Fx 3. David and I just discussed this on IRC and decided that we should drop support for Fx 3 now as we update articles.
I created a new revision based on scoobidiver's. I'm also rewriting the article with the goal of making it more helpful (it had a 35% helpful rating in Jan.). I saved a draft that's still in progress.
I created a new revision based on scoobidiver's. I'm also rewriting the article with the [https://wiki.mozilla.org/Support/Goals/2011Q1/KBUpdates#Re-write_Troubleshooting_Articles goal of making it more helpful] (it had a 35% helpful rating in Jan.). I saved a draft that's still in progress.
(Verdi)Matthew (zzxc) reviewed this with me over IRC.
I know I'm late to this thread but.... I don't know if I agree with the order of the steps. Did you discuss this over IRC? You are telling people to follow this order:
1. Restart your computer
2. Clear your cookies and cache
3. Update and troubleshoot your plugins
4. Troubleshoot your extensions and themes
5. Reset Firefox's preferences
6. Reinstall Firefox
7. Make a new profile
I was mainly wondering if there was a reason you decided to move the updating and troubleshooting plugins section up to #3, ahead of Safe Mode troubleshooting of extensions and themes.
I guess I can understand why creating a new profile is now the last step (managing profiles is an "advanced" process and the the built-in Profile Manager is scheduled for extinction).
'''(Verdi)''' ''Matthew (zzxc) reviewed this with me over IRC.''
I know I'm late to this thread but.... I don't know if I agree with the order of the steps. Did you discuss this over IRC? You are telling people to follow this order:
1. Restart your computer
2. Clear your cookies and cache
3. Update and troubleshoot your plugins
4. Troubleshoot your extensions and themes
5. Reset Firefox's preferences
6. Reinstall Firefox
7. Make a new profile
I was mainly wondering if there was a reason you decided to move the updating and troubleshooting plugins section up to #3, ahead of Safe Mode troubleshooting of extensions and themes.
I guess I can understand why creating a new profile is now the last step (managing profiles is an "advanced" process and the the built-in Profile Manager is scheduled for extinction).
Indeed, HW acceleration (Fx4 only) can cause hangs, crashes or bad displays. To see if a problem is related to HW acceleration, either start Firefox in safe mode (not specific to extension or theme issues) or disable HW acceleration in the Advanced windows and restart Firefox.
So a step 4 (Fx4 only) before the "Troubleshoot your extensions and themes" section is necessary.
It needs updates.
Indeed, HW acceleration (Fx4 only) can cause hangs, crashes or bad displays. To see if a problem is related to HW acceleration, either start Firefox in safe mode (not specific to extension or theme issues) or disable HW acceleration in the Advanced windows and restart Firefox.
So a step 4 (Fx4 only) before the "Troubleshoot your extensions and themes" section is necessary.
So a step 4 (Fx4 only) before the "Troubleshoot your extensions and themes" section is necessary.
Wouldn't you need to change (or remove) the numbers from the section headings? Or would you have a step 4a and step 4b for Firefox 4?
''To see if a problem is related to HW acceleration, either start Firefox in safe mode...''
Thanks for that. I found the related bug, [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591139 Bug 591139 - Disable hardware acceleration in safe mode]. (I added that info to the http://kb.mozillazine.org/Safe_Mode article, which is linked from [[Safe Mode]].)
''So a step 4 (Fx4 only) before the "Troubleshoot your extensions and themes" section is necessary.''
Wouldn't you need to change (or remove) the numbers from the section headings? Or would you have a step 4a and step 4b for Firefox 4?
Since running Firefox in Diagnose Firefox issues using Troubleshoot Mode disables extensions, uses the default theme and uses default localstore settings (and in Firefox 4, disables hardware acceleration), but since all plugins remain enabled and modified preferences are still used in Safe Mode:
I was thinking that testing Firefox in Diagnose Firefox issues using Troubleshoot Mode should be step 3, before troubleshooting plugins or extensions/themes. Depending on what happens in Safe Mode, troubleshooting would then diverge into two different paths:
Since running Firefox in [[Safe Mode]] disables extensions, uses the default theme and uses default localstore settings (and in Firefox 4, disables hardware acceleration), <u>but since all plugins remain enabled and modified preferences are still used in Safe Mode:</u>
I was thinking that testing Firefox in [[Safe Mode]] should be step 3, before troubleshooting plugins or extensions/themes. Depending on what happens in Safe Mode, troubleshooting would then diverge into two different paths:
'''A) If the problem doesn't occur in Safe Mode,'''
:1. [[Troubleshooting extensions and themes|Troubleshoot extensions and themes]] then test again in normal mode.
:2. If the problem still occurs, [[Toolbar keeps resetting#w_fixing-the-problem|Reset toolbars and controls]] and test again.
:3. {for fx4} If the problem still occurs, disable hardware acceleration in Firefox [[Options window - Advanced panel#w_general-tab|advanced settings]].
<br>
'''B) If the problem still occurs in Safe Mode,'''
:1. Update and [[Troubleshooting plugins|troubleshoot plugins]]
:2. [[Resetting preferences|Reset preferences]]
:3. [[Uninstalling Firefox|Uninstall]]/remove leftover program files/[[Installing Firefox|reinstall Firefox]]
:4. [[Managing profiles|Create a new profile]]
<br>
I'll leave it to others to decide.
''B.1 is unrelated to Safe Mode, so it can be kept as Step 3 (a lot of users have out-of-date plugins).''
Huh?
B.1 is about [[Troubleshooting plugins]] and plugins remain in effect in [[Safe Mode]]. That's why, if the problem still occurs in Safe Mode, a plugin may be causing it.
Before trying the safe mode, easy steps 1, 2, 3 (plugin update part) can be done. The actual step 3 should be divided in two parts: plugin updates that stay in step 3 and the plugin troubleshooting that goes to B.1.
Before trying the safe mode, easy steps 1, 2, 3 (plugin update part) can be done. The actual step 3 should be divided in two parts: plugin updates that stay in step 3 and the plugin troubleshooting that goes to B.1.
I don't see why updating plugins should be so high on the list of troubleshooting steps. Like you said, many users have outdated plugins. Before you tell users to update or disable plugins (both are part of the troubleshooting plugins article) I think that you should have a pretty good idea that the problem is plugin-related. If the problem still occurs in Diagnose Firefox issues using Troubleshoot Mode then that would be a reason to check for a plugin issue.
P.S.. Updating plugins is not that easy. You have to go to the Plugin Check page and then click on each outdated plugin, which directs you to the plugin download site and from there you have many steps to follow. You have to download and save the plugin or application installer (which may be a large download ... like QuickTime or Java) , exit Firefox, run the installer, etc., for each outdated plugin. Plus, some plugins may be marked as "unknown" and don't have download links.
I don't see why updating plugins should be so high on the list of troubleshooting steps. Like you said, many users have outdated plugins. Before you tell users to update or disable plugins (both are part of the [[troubleshooting plugins]] article) I think that you should have a pretty good idea that the problem is plugin-related. If the problem still occurs in [[Safe Mode]] then that would be a reason to check for a plugin issue.
P.S.. Updating plugins is not that easy. You have to go to the [http://www.mozilla.com/plugincheck/ Plugin Check] page and then click on each outdated plugin, which directs you to the plugin download site and from there you have many steps to follow. You have to download and save the plugin or application installer (which may be a large download ... like QuickTime or Java) , exit Firefox, run the installer, etc., for each outdated plugin. Plus, some plugins may be marked as "unknown" and don't have download links.
Here is my point of view: in Firefox 4, extensions and themes are updated automatically by default, not plugins. I think having plugins up-to-date is as important as having Firefox up-to-date, that is why it should be done first, even if it is not the cause of the problem and it is long to do.
It is more preventative than curative.
Here is my point of view: in Firefox 4, extensions and themes are updated automatically by default, not plugins. I think having plugins up-to-date is as important as having Firefox up-to-date, that is why it should be done first, even if it is not the cause of the problem and it is long to do.
It is more preventative than curative.
I don't think we should make updating plugins #3, just because it can prevent future problems or is "good for users".
I can see that you should tell people to restart the computer then restart Firefox as step 1, and then do another "shot in the dark" to clear cookies and cache as #2 because it's so easy. but at some point in the article I think we need to take a systematic approach. Using Diagnose Firefox issues using Troubleshoot Mode to figure out what might be causing the problem and what can be eliminated is basic troubleshooting. If the problem goes away in Safe Mode, go to A, then try 1-2-3 (those options can be in whatever order you like, or leave that up to the user). If the problem still occurs, in Safe Mode, go to B, then try 1-2-3.
If you want to add disabling hardware acceleration in advanced options as another step for Firefox 4, go ahead. My idea was to include it as a step to take (even a first step, if you prefer) if the problem goes away in Safe Mode.
Anyway, Michael said the goal of revising this article is to make it more helpful, which to me, means making it help users diagnose and cure a specific, existing problem with Firefox. Making people more safe on the Internet or preventing future problems by keeping plugins up to date is fine but I don't think that goal shouldn't determine the order of troubleshooting steps. Since it doesn't look like I can convince you and since no one else has weighed in here, I'll leave it at that.
I don't think we should make updating plugins #3, just because it can prevent future problems or is "good for users".
I can see that you should tell people to restart the computer then restart Firefox as step 1, and then do another "shot in the dark" to clear cookies and cache as #2 because it's so easy. but at some point in the article I think we need to take a systematic approach. Using [[Safe Mode]] to figure out what might be causing the problem and what can be eliminated is basic [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubleshooting troubleshooting]. If the problem goes away in Safe Mode, go to A, then try 1-2-3 (those options can be in whatever order you like, or leave that up to the user). If the problem still occurs, in Safe Mode, go to B, then try 1-2-3.
If you want to add disabling hardware acceleration in advanced options as another step for Firefox 4, go ahead. My idea was to include it as a step to take (even a first step, if you prefer) if the problem goes away in Safe Mode.
Anyway, Michael said the goal of revising this article is to make it more helpful, which to me, means making it help users diagnose and cure a specific, existing problem with Firefox. Making people more safe on the Internet or preventing future problems by keeping plugins up to date is fine but I don't think that goal shouldn't determine the order of troubleshooting steps. Since it doesn't look like I can convince you and since no one else has weighed in here, I'll leave it at that.
