SUMO community discussions

[Your help needed] New Support Forum Interface Landing imminent

  • 53 Replies
  • Last reply by John99
  1. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6161 posts
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    John99 said

    Apparent BUG Whilst navigating using the forum options I go to my contributions
    • /questions?owner=mine&show=all (Note escalate not specified)
    • I did not specifically select []Escalated
      • But the forum did check the box [] escalated, for me
    <snip>
    Or is the above another deliberate ploy?
    See also Bug 928901#c24

    I think it's a bug. I see it also, using /questions?&show=all where sometimes [] Escalated gets checkmarked, sometimes it doesn't. See my previous post: /forums/contributors/709835?page=1#post-55959

    Bug 928901 needs more work ... the changes should never have landed on production.

    ''John99 [[#post-55960|said]]'' <blockquote> '''Apparent BUG''' Whilst navigating using the forum options I go to my contributions * [/questions?owner=mine&show=all] (Note escalate not specified) * I did not specifically select []Escalated **But the forum did check the box [] escalated, for me <snip><br> Or is the above another deliberate ploy? <br /> See also [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=928901#c24 Bug 928901#c24] </blockquote> I think it's a bug. I see it also, using [/questions?&show=all] where sometimes [] Escalated gets checkmarked, sometimes it doesn't. See my previous post: [/forums/contributors/709835?page=1#post-55959] [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=928901 Bug 928901] needs more work ... the changes should never have landed on production.

    Modified by AliceWyman on

  2. Madasan
    Madasan 1255 posts
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    John99 said

    Madalina, PREVIOUSLY OFF TOPIC QUESTIONS Kadir said
    " The heldpesk will also cover questions that are not completely about using Firefox." IS THIS A SIGNIFICANT AAQ FORUM POLICY CHANGE
    • In the scope of forum questions ?
    • In how off topic questions are handled ?
      No longer off topic !?
    What is this about off topic questions.
    I would not want this to be a change introduced stealthily without discussion. Shouting because it is only one of many changes and easily overlooked with all this going on at once.

    John,

    Thanks for pointing this out.

    There are two types of off topic questions.

    1. Questions that are not related to Firefox or Mozilla but to other products/ There is no change here, the workflow should be the same as decided previously in the forum guidelines:

    - answer to the OP the forum is for Firefox questions only. Inform him we do not provide support for that particular product.

    - if possible, provide a helpful link or suggestion (For instance, a Windows or Mozillazine article or forum).

    - report to moderator so thread can be locked

    Moderator will:

    - review the thread

    - post a reply explaining while thread is being locked

    - lock the thread

    2. Questions that are not related to Firefox but are related to other Mozilla products or projects (e.g. Webmaker, or that person who did not receive an email after donating money to Mozilla). These are the threads that might benefit from escalation, as helpdesk can contact the right person in the organization.

    So basically nothing really changes, it is just if you see threads related to Mozilla that should be brought to some other team's attention, helpdesk can help finding the right person within Mozilla to deal with that. I would expect those would be a very small amount, though. It is not mandatory to escalate off-topics, only if these can actually benefit from helpdesk contacting somebody else in Mozilla.

    Also the flow for off-topics should be as following: anyone can tag a question as off-topic and then moderators can review the filter and lock the threads as per the guidelines above.

    All the above sound ok in theory but does it work? I like Alice's suggestion that all marked as off-topic should go to automatically to moderator review, this should eliminate on step in the process.

    I know that these are a lot of changes and everything seems to be a bit rushed so I want to thank you for your patience and for helping to figure all these things out.

    ''John99 [[#post-55958|said]]'' <blockquote> Madalina, <u>PREVIOUSLY OFF TOPIC QUESTIONS</u > Kadir said <br /> ''''' " The heldpesk will also cover questions that are not completely about using Firefox." ''''' IS THIS A SIGNIFICANT AAQ FORUM POLICY CHANGE * In the scope of forum questions ? * In how off topic questions are handled ? <br />No longer off topic !? What is [/contributors/709835#post-55946 this] about off topic questions. <br /> I would not want this to be a change introduced stealthily without discussion. Shouting because it is only one of many changes and easily overlooked with all this going on at once. </blockquote> John, Thanks for pointing this out. There are two types of off topic questions. 1. Questions that are not related to Firefox or Mozilla but to other products/ There is no change here, the workflow should be the same as decided previously in the [https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related forum guidelines]: - answer to the OP the forum is for Firefox questions only. Inform him we do not provide support for that particular product. - if possible, provide a helpful link or suggestion (For instance, a Windows or Mozillazine article or forum). - report to moderator so thread can be locked Moderator will: - review the thread - post a reply explaining while thread is being locked - lock the thread 2. Questions that are not related to Firefox but are related to other Mozilla products or projects (e.g. Webmaker, or that person who did not receive an email after donating money to Mozilla). These are the threads that might benefit from escalation, as helpdesk can contact the right person in the organization. So basically nothing really changes, it is just if you see threads related to Mozilla that should be brought to some other team's attention, helpdesk can help finding the right person within Mozilla to deal with that. I would expect those would be a very small amount, though. It is not mandatory to escalate off-topics, only if these can actually benefit from helpdesk contacting somebody else in Mozilla. Also the flow for off-topics should be as following: anyone can tag a question as off-topic and then moderators can review the filter and lock the threads as per the guidelines above. All the above sound ok in theory but does it work? I like Alice's suggestion that all marked as off-topic should go to automatically to moderator review, this should eliminate on step in the process. I know that these are a lot of changes and everything seems to be a bit rushed so I want to thank you for your patience and for helping to figure all these things out.

    Modified by Madasan on

  3. Kadir Topal
    Kadir Topal 1215 posts
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    Hey guys, lot's of questions here, and I'll try to reply to them individually, but let me say a few words upfront:

    We had to land this fairly quickly, because we don't deploy on Fridays and we wanted to be able react to feedback, fix issues and roll back in case of a big issue. However I hope that none of this was a surprise. The concept was presented two month ago, the heavy lifting with the statuses for questions was done last month, the major direction for the UI was set 3 weeks ago with only minor changes in the last week and discussions going on here in the forum. The new UI was deployed on staging for a day, we even got recent data imported to dry run the rollout on production, and we got time to fix a number of bugs during that time. On top of all of that, you should still be able keep your habits and workflows by using the "All questions" tab that behaves just like the old forum view.

    All that said, we still need your feedback. We specifically landed this quickly, so we could work on improvements before Mozilla closes for the holidays. We now have more than one week of time to do exactly that, so please keep the feedback coming.

    Now, to the questions:

    AliceWyman said

    Kadir Topal said
    Hi Alice, thanks for bringing that up. Off-topic, like escalated can be used by anyone. As far as I know Madalina was hashing out the rules around that with the community there.

    That discussion was here /forums/contributors/709033?&page=4 ... but it's still not finalized. The etherpad is here: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related

    I'm sure that Madalina will pick that up soon and we can move forward with a decision.


    John99 said

    Kadir,
    You mention the helpdesk covering off topic subjects.
    • Does this imply the scope of the forum is being drastically increased ?
    • Or that the role of Moderators is changing ?
    You said in {"[Your help needed] Feedback for the new Support Forum"]
    The heldpesk will also cover questions that are not completely about using Firefox.
    • Perhaps you are able to clarify ?

    What to do with off-topic questions is a policy discussion that Madalina is leading. That said, I don't think the role of moderators is changing, the helpdesk is here to fill the gaps, not take over the forum. To be clear: the UI change has no impact on off-topic questions at all.


    John99 said

    • Are we moving toward an uncontrolled use of tagging with users free to add any tag they wish and employ it as they like.
    • is there going to be no controlled / reccomended list of available tags ?

    We are not letting anyone add any tag. As it was before, already existing tags can be added by anyone, new tags can only be generated by those who have the rights. The recommended tags are "offtopic" and "escalate". The rules for their usage are currently being discussed.


    cor-el said

    Why can't we go back further than 4 pages on the index page (on page 4 it only shows a newer button and adding page=5 redirect to page=1) and only go back two pages in my contributions?

    The "needs attention" tab is only showing questions where the last post was made less than 7 days ago. That's because we want to keep that bucket at zero or close to zero at all times, and there is no way to do that with the thousands of old questions that would otherwise fill that bucket. This is a technicality that should not matter within a few days, because with the help of helpdesk no question will stay without a reply for longer than 24 hours anyway.


    cor-el said

    I can't even check if there are replies for posts I made yesterday if I do not do that immediately and also can't check older posts made today to see if there is anything that interests me.

    Can you explain what you mean by this? If the user came back and left a comment, you should be able to see their response in the "needs attention" tab. I can see that with my posts. In any case: The "all questions tab" should work just like the old view, showing everything in chronological order.


    AliceWyman said

    Before the changeover, I could filter for threads tagged off-topic and there were four or five six threads

    Yes, the reason for that is that the implementation is using "offtopic" for the tag, while the ones you mention are marked "off-topic". This is easy to change, but when I noticed that yesterday, I didn't think of it as an issue. The hyphen might potentially lead to misunderstandings in certain situations, and since it will barely be visible, it shouldn't be an issue that "offtopic" slightly less readable than "off-topic". But if people feel strongly about it, we can change it easily.


    John99 said

    So we have lost
    • Ability to filter on tags (other than escalate and off topic)
    Probably mostly little used and not vital.

    You can still do that in the advanced search, but it seemed like it was barely used; it had been mostly broken for month, and nobody said anything.


    cor-el said

    It is a bit more work with the new system to get the pages that you want.

    Please, let me know about those cases. No part of the redesign is set in stone. We need feedback like this and details to improve it for everyone.


    AliceWyman said

    The default view to only show questions where the OP posted last isn't useful for me to moderate the forums so I've bookmarked /questions?&show=all ... but that doesn't include escalated threads .... for those, I have to separately check /questions?escalated=1&show=all

    Checking "escalated" threads and "off-topic" threads is sticky. Just like the sidebars for "more information". Once you check them, the forum will remember it and always show you "escalated" and "off-topic" questions.

    The default view is not meant for moderators indeed, it is optimized for contributors who answer questions, but the "all" view should allow moderators to keep their wokflows as it behaves exactly like the old view.


    John99 said

    I note the forum defaults to attention needed. If we are encouraging users to look at and browse the forum that is IMHO the wrong choice.
    • Contributors
      Will actively choose, bookmark or open options, defaults should aim to satisfy the none contributor users.

    No matter what view we are defaulting to currently, it will not be of much use to visitors, because the forums are not made to be browsed. They are sorted by last activity, probably the most useless sorting for visitors, there is no way to hone in on your topic of interest, etc. We are currently having the discussion of how to design for contributors/users/visitors in another thread. And that discussion might lead to offering different views for different user types indeed.

    John99 said

    Apparent BUG Or is the above another deliberate ploy?
    See also [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=928901#c24 Bug 928901#c24

    Yes, that is intentional. Checking "escalated" will assume that you are always interested in escalated threads until you uncheck that box. It's a sticky decision.

    Hey guys, lot's of questions here, and I'll try to reply to them individually, but let me say a few words upfront: We had to land this fairly quickly, because we don't deploy on Fridays and we wanted to be able react to feedback, fix issues and roll back in case of a big issue. However I hope that none of this was a surprise. [https://docs.google.com/a/mozilla.com/drawings/d/1tN7asQ7pIB0SxIWPYCGpokL2gD6a5Dj5QIgJay0AFn4/edit The concept ]was presented two month ago, the heavy lifting with the statuses for questions was done last month, the major direction for the UI was set 3 weeks ago with only minor changes in the last week and discussions going on [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709786?last=55963 here in the forum]. The new UI was deployed on staging for a day, we even got recent data imported to dry run the rollout on production, and we got time to fix a number of bugs during that time. On top of all of that, you should still be able keep your habits and workflows by using the "All questions" tab that behaves just like the old forum view. All that said, we still need your feedback. We specifically landed this quickly, so we could work on improvements before Mozilla closes for the holidays. We now have more than one week of time to do exactly that, so please keep the feedback coming. Now, to the questions: ''AliceWyman [[#post-55945|said]]'' <blockquote> ''Kadir Topal [[#post-55942|said]]'' <blockquote> Hi Alice, thanks for bringing that up. Off-topic, like escalated can be used by anyone. As far as I know Madalina was hashing out the rules around that with the community there. </blockquote> That discussion was here [/forums/contributors/709033?&page=4] ... but it's still not finalized. The etherpad is here: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related </blockquote> I'm sure that Madalina will pick that up soon and we can move forward with a decision. ''John99 [[#post-55946|said]]'' <blockquote> Kadir,<br /> You mention the helpdesk covering off topic subjects. * Does this imply the scope of the forum is being drastically increased ? * Or that the role of Moderators is changing ? You [/forums/contributors/709786 said] in <sub>{''"[Your help needed] Feedback for the new Support Forum"'']</sub><blockquote>The heldpesk will also cover questions that are not completely about using Firefox. </blockquote> * Perhaps you are able to clarify ?</blockquote> What to do with off-topic questions is a policy discussion that Madalina is leading. That said, I don't think the role of moderators is changing, the helpdesk is here to fill the gaps, not take over the forum. To be clear: the UI change has no impact on off-topic questions at all. ''John99 [[#post-55946|said]]'' <blockquote> *Are we moving toward an uncontrolled use of tagging with users free to add any tag they wish and employ it as they like. * is there going to be no controlled / reccomended list of available tags ? </blockquote> We are not letting anyone add any tag. As it was before, already existing tags can be added by anyone, new tags can only be generated by those who have the rights. The recommended tags are "offtopic" and "escalate". The rules for their usage are currently being discussed. ''cor-el [[#post-55955|said]]'' <blockquote> Why can't we go back further than 4 pages on the index page (on page 4 it only shows a newer button and adding page=5 redirect to page=1) and only go back two pages in my contributions?</blockquote> The "needs attention" tab is only showing questions where the last post was made less than 7 days ago. That's because we want to keep that bucket at zero or close to zero at all times, and there is no way to do that with the thousands of old questions that would otherwise fill that bucket. This is a technicality that should not matter within a few days, because with the help of helpdesk no question will stay without a reply for longer than 24 hours anyway. ''cor-el [[#post-55955|said]]'' <blockquote>I can't even check if there are replies for posts I made yesterday if I do not do that immediately and also can't check older posts made today to see if there is anything that interests me. </blockquote> Can you explain what you mean by this? If the user came back and left a comment, you should be able to see their response in the "needs attention" tab. I can see that with my posts. In any case: The "all questions tab" should work just like the old view, showing everything in chronological order. ''AliceWyman [[#post-55949|said]]'' <blockquote> Before the changeover, I could [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions?tagged=off-topic filter for threads tagged off-topic] and there were <s>four or five</s> six threads</blockquote> Yes, the reason for that is that the implementation is using "offtopic" for the tag, while the ones you mention are marked "off-topic". This is easy to change, but when I noticed that yesterday, I didn't think of it as an issue. The hyphen might potentially lead to misunderstandings in certain situations, and since it will barely be visible, it shouldn't be an issue that "offtopic" slightly less readable than "off-topic". But if people feel strongly about it, we can change it easily. ''John99 [[#post-55953|said]]'' <blockquote> So we have lost * Ability to filter on tags (other than escalate and off topic) Probably mostly little used and not vital.</blockquote> You can still do that in the advanced search, but it seemed like it was barely used; it had been mostly broken for month, and nobody said anything. ''cor-el [[#post-55957|said]]'' <blockquote>It is a bit more work with the new system to get the pages that you want.</blockquote> Please, let me know about those cases. No part of the redesign is set in stone. We need feedback like this and details to improve it for everyone. ''AliceWyman [[#post-55959|said]]'' <blockquote>The default view to only show questions where the OP posted last isn't useful for me to moderate the forums so I've bookmarked [/questions?&show=all] ... but that doesn't include escalated threads .... for those, I have to separately check [/questions?escalated=1&show=all] </blockquote> Checking "escalated" threads and "off-topic" threads is sticky. Just like the sidebars for "more information". Once you check them, the forum will remember it and always show you "escalated" and "off-topic" questions. The default view is not meant for moderators indeed, it is optimized for contributors who answer questions, but the "all" view should allow moderators to keep their wokflows as it behaves exactly like the old view. ''John99 [[#post-55960|said]]'' <blockquote> I note the forum defaults to attention needed. If we are encouraging users to look at and browse the forum that is IMHO the wrong choice. *Contributors <br />Will actively choose, bookmark or open options, defaults should aim to satisfy the none contributor users. </blockquote> No matter what view we are defaulting to currently, it will not be of much use to visitors, because the forums are not made to be browsed. They are sorted by last activity, probably the most useless sorting for visitors, there is no way to hone in on your topic of interest, etc. We are currently having the discussion of how to design for contributors/users/visitors in [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709825?last=55927 another thread]. And that discussion might lead to offering different views for different user types indeed. ''John99 [[#post-55960|said]]'' <blockquote> '''Apparent BUG''' Or is the above another deliberate ploy? <br /> See also [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=928901#c24 Bug 928901#c24</blockquote> Yes, that is intentional. Checking "escalated" will assume that you are always interested in escalated threads until you uncheck that box. It's a sticky decision.
  4. Madasan
    Madasan 1255 posts
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    PS

    I have modified a bit the guidelines for off-topic threads to illustrate helpdesk involvment.

    Ideally in the future, since we're adding forums for other Mozilla products as well (Webmaker, Thunderbird etc) we will be able to move threads from the Firefox forum to the respective forums.

    PS I have modified a bit the [https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related guidelines] for off-topic threads to illustrate helpdesk involvment. Ideally in the future, since we're adding forums for other Mozilla products as well (Webmaker, Thunderbird etc) we will be able to move threads from the Firefox forum to the respective forums.
  5. Kadir Topal
    Kadir Topal 1215 posts
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    And one more thing: the bug where the language of the filter would switch is fixed now. Thanks for the feedback!

    And one more thing: the bug where the language of the filter would switch is [https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=950015 fixed now]. Thanks for the feedback!
  6. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    Thanks for the replies Madalina and Kadir.
    I like the direction we are moving in but am trying to make constructive points If I think problems may arise.

    Kadir Topal said

    Hey guys, lot's of questions here, and I'll try to reply to them individually, but let me say a few words upfront: .....

    cor-el said
    Why can't we go back further than 4 pages on the index page (on page 4 it only shows a newer button and adding page=5 redirect to page=1) and only go back two pages in my contributions?

    The "needs attention" tab is only showing questions where the last post was made less than 7 days ago. That's because we want to keep that bucket at zero or close to zero at all times, and there is no way to do that with the thousands of old questions that would otherwise fill that bucket. This is a technicality that should not matter within a few days, because with the help of helpdesk no question will stay without a reply for longer than 24 hours anyway.

    I think the thread will fall in to a black hole and be overlooked.
    Story

    1. OP posts, thread gets escalated
    2. Thread stalls, now no way to escalate
    3. Thread drops off needs attention filter because it is over 7 days old

    Mistakes

    1. Why limit to 7 days if aim is to Not drop the ball
    2. Why not exclude "the thousands of old questions that would otherwise fill that bucket. " simply by setting a commencement date. Presumably as we did, or should have done, with the escalate tag.
    3. I still think we need separate tags for, manual_escalate, initial12_escalate & manual_ escalate.


    Kadir Topal said

    John99 said
    So we have lost
    • Ability to filter on tags (other than escalate and off topic)
    Probably mostly little used and not vital.

    You can still do that in the advanced search, but it seemed like it was barely used; it had been mostly broken for month, and nobody said anything.

    Yeah, but broken features do not get used anyway. If they worked well they may be used. The handful of topics is not much use. The dozens listed, if used and not overlapping may be worth sorting or filtering on.

    Topics do not seem to do anything much other than very roughly segregate some OP questions.

    Thanks for the replies Madalina and Kadir. <br />I like the direction we are moving in but am trying to make constructive points If I think problems may arise. ''Kadir Topal [[#post-55965|said]]'' <blockquote> Hey guys, lot's of questions here, and I'll try to reply to them individually, but let me say a few words upfront: ..... <br /><br /> ''cor-el [[#post-55955|said]]'' <blockquote> Why can't we go back further than 4 pages on the index page (on page 4 it only shows a newer button and adding page=5 redirect to page=1) and only go back two pages in my contributions?</blockquote> The "needs attention" tab is only showing questions where the last post was made less than 7 days ago. That's because we want to keep that bucket at zero or close to zero at all times, and there is no way to do that with the thousands of old questions that would otherwise fill that bucket. This is a technicality that should not matter within a few days, because with the help of helpdesk no question will stay without a reply for longer than 24 hours anyway. </blockquote> I think the thread will fall in to a black hole and be overlooked. <br />Story # OP posts, thread gets escalated #Thread stalls, '''now no way to escalate''' #Thread drops off needs attention filter because it is over 7 days old Mistakes # Why limit to 7 days if aim is to Not drop the ball #Why not exclude '' "the thousands of old questions that would otherwise fill that bucket. "'' simply by setting a commencement date. Presumably as we did, or should have done, with the escalate tag. #I still think we need separate tags for, manual_escalate, initial12_escalate & manual_ escalate. ''Kadir Topal [[#post-55965|said]]'' <blockquote> ''John99 [[#post-55953|said]]'' <blockquote> So we have lost * Ability to filter on tags (other than escalate and off topic) Probably mostly little used and not vital.</blockquote> You can still do that in the advanced search, but it seemed like it was barely used; it had been mostly broken for month, and nobody said anything. </blockquote> Yeah, but broken features do not get used anyway. If they worked well they may be used. The handful of topics is not much use. The dozens listed, if used and not overlapping may be worth sorting or filtering on. Topics do not seem to do anything much other than very roughly segregate some OP questions.
  7. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    Madasan said

    PS I have modified a bit the guidelines for off-topic threads to illustrate helpdesk involvment. Ideally in the future, since we're adding forums for other Mozilla products as well (Webmaker, Thunderbird etc) we will be able to move threads from the Firefox forum to the respective forums.

    I will take this to the other thread at some stage. But just make quick points here for now related to Webmaker.

    • Webmaker already directly & specifically post in our Firefox AAQ forum (from->here) . They will presumably already be given a topic and a tag. Why do we not make use of that now to automatically tag the pots immediately as offtopic & webmaker.
    • Why move them ?
      If they are moved out of AAQ they loose the benefits of, new tread status, mainstream AAQ exposure, HelpDesk & moderation.
    • Currently we are not able to manually move threads between AAQ & community forums anyhow.
    • Same as other products Mobile or Fx OS AAQs: as long as we may filter by tag or topic it should be ok.
    • It may be even better to consider a Tag NOT_desktop That could help prevent posts about Mobile being given Desktop answers, whilst keeping posts on the improved AAQ
    Ideally in the future, since we're adding forums for other Mozilla products
    • Where are those plans and discussions
    • Are these to be based on
      • New AAQ model but distinct fora
      • Current Community fora (lacking features)
      • Something totally new. (reinventing the wheel)
    ''Madasan [[#post-55966|said]]'' <blockquote> PS I have modified a bit the [https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related guidelines] for off-topic threads to illustrate helpdesk involvment. Ideally in the future, since we're adding forums for other Mozilla products as well (Webmaker, Thunderbird etc) we will be able to move threads from the Firefox forum to the respective forums. </blockquote> I will take this to the other thread at some stage. But just make quick points here for now related to Webmaker. * Webmaker already directly & specifically post in our Firefox AAQ forum ('''[/questions/new from]->[/questions/new/webmaker here]''') . They will presumably already be given a topic and a tag. Why do we not make use of that now to automatically tag the pots immediately as ''offtopic'' & ''webmaker''. * Why move them ? <br />If they are moved out of AAQ they loose the benefits of, new tread status, mainstream AAQ exposure, HelpDesk & moderation. *Currently we are not able to manually move threads between AAQ & community forums anyhow. * Same as other products Mobile or Fx OS AAQs: as long as we may filter by tag or topic it should be ok. * It may be even better to consider a '''Tag NOT_desktop''' That could help prevent posts about Mobile being given Desktop answers, whilst keeping posts on the improved AAQ <blockquote>Ideally in the future, since we're adding forums for other Mozilla products </blockquote> * Where are those plans and discussions * Are these to be based on ** New AAQ model but distinct fora ** Current Community fora (lacking features) **Something totally new. (reinventing the wheel)
  8. cor-el
    cor-el 1447 posts
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    Most of the problems I had were caused by tabs that I had open and only had a simple link (no GET data apart from a page number).

    Such a link causes the issues that I described

    I hadn't realized that it is now necessary to append owner=all&show=all to see all results.

    It is still more work to get the old no reply pages and I need to get used to the new terms.

    Or if you click "Attention needed" & New:

    Most of the problems I had were caused by tabs that I had open and only had a simple link (no GET data apart from a page number). *https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions?page=1 Such a link causes the issues that I described I hadn't realized that it is now necessary to append owner=all&show=all to see all results. *https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions?owner=all&show=all&page=1 It is still more work to get the old no reply pages and I need to get used to the new terms. *https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions?owner=all&filter=recently-unanswered&show=all&page=1 Or if you click "Attention needed" & New: *https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions?filter=new&show=needs-attention&page=1
  9. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    Apparent bug (2nd)

    Most recent bar link option filter=recently-unanswered breaks when used with my contributions mine.

    I can see and have no initial problem with

    1. All Everyone
      /questions?owner=all&filter=recently-...
    2. My contributions
      /questions?owner=mine&show=all
    3. Or Help Solve Them ( Most Recent)
      /questions?filter=recently-unanswered...
    • But when using the navigation buttons once in my contributions
      /questions?owner=mine&show=all
      I run into an apparent bug
      • |All Questions |¬ |(filter) Recently Unanswered |¬ | (show) My Contributions | - | (NOT) [] offtopic, or escalated |
      • I get There are no questions that match the current filter settings.
      • That is I suppose valid but unlikely to be used. The next step is the real apparent bug.
    • Problem & My expectations
      When set as above the show unsolved bar fails to work.
      With the no results message remaining.
      I would expect it to work as normal.
      I would expect it to show ALL recent (last24 hours) unsolved questions
      • I could understand the bar option not displaying if this is dedicated as an OP only view, but if so the bar solve them option should not display.
      • (problem url} /questions?owner=mine&filter=recently... it is [/questions?'**owner=mine**&filter=recently-unanswered&show=all]
      • I guess the 24 hour unsolved is also being filtered by my contributions. That seems totally illogical and unexpected, with no obvious workcase use.
    Apparent bug (2nd) Most recent bar link option '''filter=recently-unanswered''' breaks when used with my contributions '''''mine'''''. I can see and have no initial problem with # All Everyone <br />[/questions?owner=all&filter=recently-unanswered&show=all] # My contributions <br />[/questions?owner=mine&show=all] #Or Help Solve Them ( Most Recent) <br /> [/questions?filter=recently-unanswered&show=all] *But when using the navigation buttons once in my contributions <br /> [/questions?owner=mine&show=all]<br /> I run into an apparent bug ** |All Questions |¬ |(filter) Recently Unanswered |¬ | (show) My Contributions | - | (NOT) [] offtopic, or escalated | ** I get '''There are no questions that match the current filter settings. ''' ** That is I suppose valid but unlikely to be used. The next step is the real apparent bug. * '''Problem & My expectations'''<br /> When set as above the show unsolved bar fails to work. <br /> With the no results message remaining. <br /> I would expect it to work as normal.<br /> I would expect it to show ALL recent (last24 hours) unsolved questions ** I could understand the bar option not displaying if this is dedicated as an OP only view, but if so the bar solve them '''option''' should not display. ** (problem url} [/questions?owner=mine&filter=recently-unanswered&show=all] it is <nowiki> [/questions?'**owner=mine**&filter=recently-unanswered&show=all]</nowiki> ** I guess the 24 hour unsolved is also being filtered by my contributions. That seems totally illogical and unexpected, with no obvious workcase use.
  10. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    Apparent Bug (3rd) Update - My Bad, used wrong tag no hyphen in the correct tag

    This has to be more than just the lag between AAQ and us taking actions and results or posts appearing.

    I am unable to use the new UI to display post tagged as off-topic

    I have recently tagged some as shown in this search

    Apparent Bug (3rd) '''Update''' ''- My Bad, used wrong tag no hyphen in the correct tag'' This has to be more than just the lag between AAQ and us taking actions and results or posts appearing. I am unable to use the new UI to display post tagged as '''''off-topic''''' I have recently tagged some as shown in this search * [/search?q=&num_voted=0&num_votes=&asked_by=&answered_by=John99&q_tags=off-topic&created=0&created_date=&updated=0&updated_date=&sortby=0&a=1&w=2]

    Modified by John99 on

  11. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6161 posts
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    John99 said

    Apparent Bug (3rd) This has to be more than just the lag between AAQ and us taking actions and results or posts appearing. I am unable to use the new UI to display post tagged as off-topic I have recently tagged some as shown in this search

    That's because, as I understand it, the forum implementation uses "offtopic" (no hyphen) and it doesn't find threads tagged "off-topic".

    I added the following to https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related 

    [*] Related discussion on off-topic questions and tagging: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709835 (note Kadir's comments on page 2: "the implementation is using "offtopic" for the tag, while the ones you mention are marked "off-topic". This is easy to change ...").  We only have an "off-topic" tag right now.  You can find a list of questions tagged "off-topic"  by using Advanced Search.**  Tagging questions as "offtopic" (no hyphen), once that tag is available, will allow you to filter for them.   It would be great if tagging a question "offtopic" would automatically flag it for moderation (seeing how adding the "escalate" tag automatically refers it to the Helpdesk). aw
[**] You can also find a list of all questions tagged "off-topic" using https://support.mozilla.org/questions?tagged=off-topic&show=all&escalated=0&offtopic=0&owner=all aw
I checked today (12-18-2013) and the "offtopic" tag is now available. aw
    ''John99 [[#post-55990|said]]'' <blockquote> Apparent Bug (3rd) This has to be more than just the lag between AAQ and us taking actions and results or posts appearing. I am unable to use the new UI to display post tagged as '''''off-topic''''' I have recently tagged some as shown in this search * [/search?q=&num_voted=0&num_votes=&asked_by=&answered_by=John99&q_tags=off-topic&created=0&created_date=&updated=0&updated_date=&sortby=0&a=1&w=2] </blockquote> That's because, as I understand it, the forum implementation uses "offtopic" (no hyphen) and it doesn't find threads tagged "off-topic". I added the following to https://etherpad.mozilla.org/threads-not-related ----- [*] Related discussion on off-topic questions and tagging: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/709835 (note Kadir's comments on page 2: "the implementation is using "offtopic" for the tag, while the ones you mention are marked "off-topic". This is easy to change ..."). We only have an "off-topic" tag right now. You can find a list of questions tagged "off-topic" by using Advanced Search.** Tagging questions as "offtopic" (no hyphen), once that tag is available, will allow you to filter for them. It would be great if tagging a question "offtopic" would automatically flag it for moderation (seeing how adding the "escalate" tag automatically refers it to the Helpdesk). aw [**] You can also find a list of all questions tagged "off-topic" using https://support.mozilla.org/questions?tagged=off-topic&show=all&escalated=0&offtopic=0&owner=all aw I checked today (12-18-2013) and the "offtopic" tag is now available. aw

    Modified by AliceWyman on

  12. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    Thanks Alice,

    I remember that. (I thought there was now only the one tag available now and used the first one I came accross. )

    Thanks Alice, I remember that. (I thought there was now only the one tag available now and used the first one I came accross. )
  13. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6161 posts
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    John99 said

    Thanks Alice, I remember that. (I thought there was now only the one tag available now and used the first one I came accross. )

    Like I posted to the etherpad, we only have an "off-topic" tag available right now to add to a thread. Admin will have to fix that, if they want to start using the new "offtopic" filter.

    ''John99 [[#post-55997|said]]'' <blockquote> Thanks Alice, I remember that. (I thought there was now only the one tag available now and used the first one I came accross. ) </blockquote> Like I posted to the etherpad, we only have an "off-topic" tag available right now to add to a thread. Admin will have to fix that, if they want to start using the new "offtopic" filter.
  14. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    Ok so I was considering deleting the incorrect tag and adding the correct one & tried it as a test

    offtopic shows in the list, appears briefly as upper case and disappears again.

    So I am not sure whether it is intended to be usable yet but apparently it is not.

    Also I do not like the apparent action of this tag (from your quote)

    will remove them from the questions list but you will be able to filter for them. It would be great if tagging a question "offtopic" would automatically flag it for moderation (seeing how adding the "escalate" tag automatically refers it to the Helpdesk).

    That seems totally against Madalina's new declared policy for threads that case 2 offtopic where HelpDesk are to assist

    2. Questions that are not related to Firefox but are related to other Mozilla products or projects (e.g. Webmaker, or that person who did not receive an email after donating money to Mozilla). These are the threads that might benefit from escalation, as helpdesk can contact the right person in the organization. So basically nothing really changes, it is just if you see threads related to Mozilla that should be brought to some other team's attention, helpdesk can help finding the right person within Mozilla to deal with that. I would expect those would be a very small amount, though. It is not mandatory to escalate off-topics, only if these can actually benefit from helpdesk contacting somebody else in Mozilla. Also the flow for off-topics should be as following: anyone can tag a question as off-topic and then moderators can review the filter and lock the threads as per the guidelines above.


    • No point in tagging it offtopic no hyphen to escalate it if it disappears from the list.
    • It appears the offtopic tag is only appropriate for first case offtopic.
    • And if it can only be found from an advanced search what is the option on the new UI for with a checkbox for offtopic ?


    If generally offtopic threads have information and links to external sources they are a useful resource. I can see the point in locking them but not hiding or effectively deleting them. It is not going to produce repeat questions or SEO problems. It the threads are locked once dealt with then anyone landing on one gains information and a link to whatever external source we thought useful.

    Ok so I was considering deleting the incorrect tag and adding the correct one & tried it as a test ''offtopic'' shows in the list, appears briefly as upper case and disappears again. So I am not sure whether it is intended to be usable yet but apparently it is not. Also I do not like the apparent action of this tag (from your quote) <blockquote> ''will remove them from the questions list but you will be able to filter for them. It would be great if tagging a question "offtopic" would automatically flag it for moderation (seeing how adding the "escalate" tag automatically refers it to the Helpdesk). '' </blockquote> That seems totally against Madalina's new declared policy for threads that '''case 2''' offtopic where HelpDesk are to assist <blockquote>2. Questions that are not related to Firefox but are related to other Mozilla products or projects (e.g. Webmaker, or that person who did not receive an email after donating money to Mozilla). These are the threads that might benefit from escalation, as helpdesk can contact the right person in the organization. So basically nothing really changes, it is just if you see threads related to Mozilla that should be brought to some other team's attention, helpdesk can help finding the right person within Mozilla to deal with that. I would expect those would be a very small amount, though. It is not mandatory to escalate off-topics, only if these can actually benefit from helpdesk contacting somebody else in Mozilla. Also the flow for off-topics should be as following: anyone can tag a question as off-topic and then moderators can review the filter and lock the threads as per the guidelines above. </blockquote> *No point in tagging it ''offtopic'' no hyphen to escalate it if it disappears from the list. *It appears the ''offtopic'' tag is '''only''' appropriate for first case offtopic. *And if it can only be found from an advanced search what is the option on the new UI for with a checkbox for offtopic ? If generally offtopic threads have information and links to external sources they are a useful resource. I can see the point in locking them but not hiding or effectively deleting them. It is not going to produce repeat questions or SEO problems. It the threads are locked once dealt with then anyone landing on one gains information and a link to whatever external source we thought useful.
  15. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6161 posts
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    John, As I understand it, once we get an "offtopic" tag it will work the same way as the "escalate" tag, as far as questions not showing up in the list unless you select the checkbox .... and then only questions with that tag will show up.

    Lets wait for Madalina or Kadir to comment further.

    John, As I understand it, once we get an "offtopic" tag it will work the same way as the "escalate" tag, as far as questions not showing up in the list unless you select the checkbox .... and then only questions with that tag will show up. Lets wait for Madalina or Kadir to comment further.
  16. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    I have just tried again. This time I made a post myself and tried to add the offtopic tag. It did not work. This time it did not even offer that tag as a possible choice.

    I have just tried again. This time I made a [/questions/980457 post] myself and tried to add the ''offtopic'' tag. It did not work. This time it did not even offer that tag as a possible choice.
  17. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6161 posts
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    AliceWyman said

    John, As I understand it, once we get an "offtopic" tag it will work the same way as the "escalate" tag, as far as questions not showing up in the list unless you select the checkbox .... and then only questions with that tag will show up. Lets wait for Madalina or Kadir to comment further.

    I give up. I now see escalated threads interspersed among other threads when the "Escalated" box is unchecked: 

    /questions?escalated=0 and /questions?escalated=0&show=all

    so who knows what's a bug and what's the way it's supposed to work?

    John99 said

    I have just tried again. This time I made a post myself and tried to add the offtopic tag. It did not work. This time it did not even offer that tag as a possible choice.

    "offtopic" isn't a tag .. yet. Who knows? Maybe what'll happen is that the "off-topic" tag will eventually be picked up, even though it filters on "offtopic", which isn't a working tag? Right now, the forum uses "escalated" as the filter ... which isn't a tag, but it picks up the "escalate" tag.

    ''AliceWyman [[#post-56001|said]]'' <blockquote> John, As I understand it, once we get an "offtopic" tag it will work the same way as the "escalate" tag, as far as questions not showing up in the list unless you select the checkbox .... and then only questions with that tag will show up. Lets wait for Madalina or Kadir to comment further. </blockquote> I give up. I now see escalated threads interspersed among other threads when the "Escalated" box is unchecked: [/questions?escalated=0] and [/questions?escalated=0&show=all] so who knows what's a bug and what's the way it's supposed to work? ''John99 [[#post-56002|said]]'' <blockquote> I have just tried again. This time I made a [/questions/980457 post] myself and tried to add the ''offtopic'' tag. It did not work. This time it did not even offer that tag as a possible choice. </blockquote> "offtopic" isn't a tag .. yet. Who knows? Maybe what'll happen is that the "off-topic" tag will eventually be picked up, even though it filters on "offtopic", which isn't a working tag? Right now, the forum uses "escalated" as the filter ... which isn't a tag, but it picks up the "escalate" tag.

    Modified by AliceWyman on

  18. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6161 posts
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    AliceWyman said

    "offtopic" isn't a tag .. yet. Who knows? Maybe what'll happen is that the "off-topic" tag will eventually be picked up, even though it filters on "offtopic", which isn't a working tag? Right now, the forum uses "escalated" as the filter ... which isn't a tag, but it picks up the "escalate" tag.

    The "offtopic" tag is now available, in addition to the older "off-topic" tag.

    P.S. I added the "offtopic" tag to the test thread that John99 created and the forum filter now finds it ... and one that patrick added today,... but not any of the threads currently tagged "off-topic" with a hyphen.

    /questions?owner=all&offtopic=1&escal...

    ''AliceWyman [[#post-56018|said]]'' <blockquote> "offtopic" isn't a tag .. yet. Who knows? Maybe what'll happen is that the "off-topic" tag will eventually be picked up, even though it filters on "offtopic", which isn't a working tag? Right now, the forum uses "escalated" as the filter ... which isn't a tag, but it picks up the "escalate" tag. </blockquote> The "offtopic" tag is now available, in addition to the older "off-topic" tag. P.S. I added the "offtopic" tag to the test thread that John99 created and the forum filter now finds it ... and one that patrick added today,... but not any of the threads currently tagged "off-topic" with a hyphen. [/questions?owner=all&offtopic=1&escalated=0&show=all]

    Modified by AliceWyman on

  19. John99
    John99 3665 posts
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    The timings have apparently been revised, HelpDesk now aiming at a 72 hour response and not escalating until 24 hours.

    That effectively prevents HelpDesk involvement in the 24 hours as a target for the initial response.

    It will be a change contributors need to be aware of. We may be using the escalate filter when trying to hit the 24hr initial response.

    The timings have apparently been revised, HelpDesk now aiming at a 72 hour response and not escalating until 24 hours. That effectively prevents HelpDesk involvement in the 24 hours as a target for the initial response. It will be a change contributors need to be aware of. We may be using the escalate filter when trying to hit the 24hr initial response.
  20. AliceWyman
    AliceWyman 6161 posts
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    Copied from my post in

    Here's what patrick said in /forums/contributors/709846?last=56070#post-56068 

    We are auto escalating cases that reach 24 hours with no response. We are using a 72 hour SLA to respond to these cases. 12 hours was a bit too ambitious and was impacting the other work that the Helpdesk does. So far we're meeting the 72 hour SLA.

    Here's what I understand is happening right now on off-topic questions:

    Tagging a thread "offtopic" lets you use the "Off-topic" checkbox to filter for those tagged questions. Moderators will still have to find, review, and then manually lock the thread, if appropriate.

    Also, An "offtopic" tag doesn't hide the question by default, like I thought it might do (neither does the "escalate" tag hide those by default). When I commented earlier that I thought it would work that way, I was going by Kadir's comment in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=928901#c4 where he wrote: 

    The focus is on "Needs Attention". That's where we want to steer people to. The goal is to have as few question for as short as possible in that area.

    The "Needs Attention" area should be further subdivided into "new" questions and questions where the "answer didn't help". People should be able to see one or the other or both. By default we'd display both kinds of questions.

    Questions can also be escalated or off-topic. These are not states, but additional information about questions that people can use to decide if they want to get involved. By default we would not show off-topic or escalated questions.

    I took By default we would not show off-topic or escalated questions to mean that threads tagged offtopic or escalate would not be shown by default, among the other listed questions. I thought you would have to check the "Off-topic" or "Escalated" filter box to see those. It's not happening that way. Whether that's a bug or not, I don't know.

    Copied from my post in *[/questions/980457#answer-513511] ''Testing of offtopic tag by a Forum Moderator'' Here's what patrick said in [/forums/contributors/709846?last=56070#post-56068] We are auto escalating cases that reach 24 hours with no response. We are using a 72 hour SLA to respond to these cases. 12 hours was a bit too ambitious and was impacting the other work that the Helpdesk does. So far we're meeting the 72 hour SLA. Here's what I understand is happening right now on off-topic questions: Tagging a thread "offtopic" lets you use the "Off-topic" checkbox to filter for those tagged questions. Moderators will still have to find, review, and then manually lock the thread, if appropriate. Also, An "offtopic" tag doesn't hide the question by default, like I thought it might do (neither does the "escalate" tag hide those by default). When I commented earlier that I thought it would work that way, I was going by Kadir's comment in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=928901#c4 where he wrote: ----- The focus is on "Needs Attention". That's where we want to steer people to. The goal is to have as few question for as short as possible in that area. The "Needs Attention" area should be further subdivided into "new" questions and questions where the "answer didn't help". People should be able to see one or the other or both. By default we'd display both kinds of questions. Questions can also be escalated or off-topic. These are not states, but additional information about questions that people can use to decide if they want to get involved. '''By default we would not show off-topic or escalated questions.''' ----- I took '''By default we would not show off-topic or escalated questions''' to mean that threads tagged offtopic or escalate would not be shown by default, among the other listed questions. I thought you would have to check the "Off-topic" or "Escalated" filter box to see those. It's not happening that way. Whether that's a bug or not, I don't know.
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