These two users are continually posting links to the ftp server on the Support forum for users to download old Firefox versions. They should be warned or put on notice.
CseC also posts many negative comments in lots of threads about Firefox current versions being bad.
These two users are continually posting links to the ftp server on the Support forum for users to download old Firefox versions. They should be warned or put on notice.
CseC also posts many negative comments in lots of threads about Firefox current versions being bad.
Like I said in another thread, mirroring is not really an issue with old releases, since very few people will download them. It's only relevant to new releases, because there are usually way over a million downloads per day for the latest version at any given time.
Again: It is *not* an issue to send people to the FTP server. Mozilla's servers can handle a crazy amount of traffic. It is only during releases that we need to be careful, because there might be north of 4 million people downloading Firefox in a single day. So, I don't think we need to take any action to hide FTP links.
You should always try and help them make the new version the way they want it before helping them downgrade. Martienne - you might have a trojan. This is an identified reason why Firefox 6 is crashing and older versions are not, (something the trojan is doing is affecting code that was changed from 5 to 6).
Don't know what will be the solution of this FTP issue.
There's already a Thread created '''Links to FTP'''
* https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/forums/contributors/707576
Also checkout these threads:
-> Which version to recommend when a user wants to revert from 6.0?
* https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/forums/contributors/707522
-> Downloading Previous Versions of Firefox
* https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/forums/contributors/707628
Some New Helpers are also providing ftp link. But '''KadirTopal''' keeps saying:
<blockquote>
''KadirTopal [[#post-42085|said]]''
<blockquote>
Like I said in another thread, mirroring is not really an issue with old releases, since very few people will download them. It's only relevant to new releases, because there are usually way over a million downloads per day for the latest version at any given time.
* https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/forums/contributors/707576?last=42357#post-42085
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
''KadirTopal [[#post-42188|said]]''
<blockquote>
Again: '''It is *not* an issue to send people to the FTP server'''. Mozilla's servers can handle a crazy amount of traffic. It is only during releases that we need to be careful, because there might be north of 4 million people downloading Firefox in a single day. So, I don't think we need to take any action to hide FTP links.
* https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/forums/contributors/707576?last=42357#post-42188
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
However, '''scoobidiver''' says:
<blockquote>
''scoobidiver [[#post-41943|said]]''
<blockquote>
''Swapnilrustagi [[#post-41941|said]]''
<blockquote>
Firefox 5.0.1 is still available on Mozilla's own FTP server.
</blockquote>
Only to be used by Mozilla testers! Firefox 1, 2, 3 are also available. Are you going to give a link to them?
<blockquote>
How is it bad to give an external link?
</blockquote>
Giving a link to a Firefox version with [http://www.mozilla.org/security/known-vulnerabilities/firefox.html#firefox6 known security vulnerabilities] '''engages you''' (someone can file a lawsuit against you and Mozilla if his computer is damaged because he used the link you gave him) because you make wittingly users get the following risks:<br>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulnerability_%28computing%29#Vulnerability_consequences
* https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/forums/contributors/707522?last=42075#post-41943
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Meanwhile, '''Lucy''' suggests:
<blockquote>
''Lucy [[#post-42340|said]]''
<blockquote>
You should always try and help them make the new version the way they want it before helping them downgrade. Martienne - you might have a trojan. This is an identified reason why Firefox 6 is crashing and older versions are not, (something the trojan is doing is affecting code that was changed from 5 to 6).
</blockquote>
* https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/forums/contributors/707628?last=42340#post-42340
</blockquote>
Don't know what will be the solution of this FTP issue.
I have already read all of those and the posts about the problems with other (DonQ) posters. I visit the Contributor's forum several times per day and read the new posts in the important/current threads.
Too much discussion on these issues and not enough decisions/actions, in my opinion.
If someone so chooses, this thread can be closed/locked without further action or comment.
I have already read all of those and the posts about the problems with other (DonQ) posters. I visit the Contributor's forum several times per day and read the new posts in the important/current threads.
Too much discussion on these issues and not enough decisions/actions, in my opinion.
If someone so chooses, this thread can be closed/locked without further action or comment.
But posting links to insecure Firefox versions without a clear warning about incurred risks is an abuse. See https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/answering-support-questions/revision/16823
Yes, there are 2 things here. One is linking to the FTP which is not itself against the rules. The other problem is recommending an unsupported version when it's not the right solution; which is against the rules. The FTP only comes into it because that's how you get the older versions.
I like the suggestion of having to be logged in to give support. This would help deter a lot of these people I think. They'd find somewhere else to rant.
Yes, there are 2 things here. One is linking to the FTP which is not itself against the rules. The other problem is ''recommending an unsupported version'' when it's not the right solution; which is against the rules. The FTP only comes into it because that's how you get the older versions.
I like the suggestion of having to be logged in to give support. This would help deter a lot of these people I think. They'd find somewhere else to rant.
1) Most of the posts giving out the ftp link has been revised, An important note is added in which the security problems of other versions (4.0 ~ 5.0.1) is indicated, recommending the latest version.
2) Also as an agreement to the-edmeister's opinion, the safest version recommended to users for downgrading has been set to 3.6 the latest update.
3) I also read the Contributors Topic, discussing whether to give out the ftp link or not. It's not like it's decided yet, however giving out the ftp link isn't against the rules and I'm a bit more comfortable with that.
@ SafeBrowser, Well, that's not true! I just pointed out an obvious error in the new version, as you can see the number of people having that problem is not few. Fortunately, the error is fixed in a strange way for a solution... I tested the issue in different systems/OS/browsers and that's why my posts were outnumbered. Just trying to share the information.
@ Lucy, sincerely, I really feared those words. So, if it is decided here that members like me shall find somewhere else to rant (?! That was good.) then I've no other choice but to do it. Looking forward to see you logging in to give support.
@ Other Members Here, I'll honor your decision. I'll await the sentence of this topic.
Thanks for reading.
1) Most of the posts giving out the ftp link has been revised, An important note is added in which the security problems of other versions (4.0 ~ 5.0.1) is indicated, recommending the latest version.
2) Also as an agreement to '''the-edmeister''''s opinion, the safest version recommended to users for downgrading has been set to 3.6 the latest update.
3) I also read the Contributors Topic, discussing whether to give out the ftp link or not. It's not like it's decided yet, however giving out the ftp link isn't against the rules and I'm a bit more comfortable with that.
@ '''SafeBrowser''', Well, that's not true! I just pointed out an obvious error in the new version, as you can see the number of people having that problem is not few. Fortunately, the error is fixed in a strange way for a solution... I tested the issue in different systems/OS/browsers and that's why my posts were outnumbered. Just trying to share the information.
@ '''Lucy''', sincerely, I really feared those words. So, if it is decided here that members like me shall find somewhere else to rant (?! That was good.) then I've no other choice but to do it. Looking forward to see you logging in to give support.
@ '''Other Members Here''', I'll honor your decision. I'll await the sentence of this topic.
Thanks for reading.
Csec: as you can see you have to be logged in to post here, so I stay logged in. The suggestion was made by someone else, btw, not sure if it was here or in another thread. Given the standard of support we want to give our users, I think creating an account is a small show of commitment, which provides a extra tools to the person providing support as well.
BTW since no one has actually linked to any of your threads I have no idea which issue you're talking about. Could you explain it here so we can properly make decisions about what the right advice is?
Csec: as you can see you have to be logged in to post here, so I stay logged in. The suggestion was made by someone else, btw, not sure if it was here or in another thread. Given the standard of support we want to give our users, I think creating an account is a small show of commitment, which provides a extra tools to the person providing support as well.
BTW since no one has actually linked to any of your threads I have no idea which issue you're talking about. Could you explain it here so we can properly make decisions about what the right advice is?
None of the replies I clicked on show CseC recommending a downgrade, and I'm not going to click through all of them to find it. Can you be more specific then?
None of the replies I clicked on show CseC recommending a downgrade, and I'm not going to click through all of them to find it. Can you be more specific then?
The first issue is that I'm giving the link of ftp server to users, with no reason! (Which is not against the rules) but was reported here. Here is one of the threads I suggested the ftp link.
As you can see in there in the posts I suggested the link of the ftp server, there is an important note that warn users, recommending them to use the latest version. Also the recommended version to downgrade is 3.6.21. (As a result of this SUMO thread, not decided yet but I think it's a good one.). So there is no problem with these posts of mine.
The second issue. I only posted 2 topics in there. The main one was about the font problem of FF6.0. Here. There I came up with lots of posts, all of them were analyzing the problem.I don't think I've done something to be reported as an abuse here. (And also not a thing to go somewhere else ranting... as Lucy suggested.) You can simply check the date of the posts being modified, indicating that I didn't change them to remove my charges! (Completing my defense...)
I first didn't know about the SUMO threads. But after some days of giving solutions, Ed messaged me and told me about here. So I checked one of two important threads, concerting my posts. After that all of the future posts and the most of the past one were revised (According to SUMO threads.)
So now tell me, am I really an abuse?
The first issue is that I'm giving the link of ftp server to users, with no reason! (Which is not against the rules) but was reported here. [https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/869174 Here] is one of the threads I suggested the ftp link.
As you can see in there in the posts I suggested the link of the ftp server, there is an important note that warn users, recommending them to use the latest version. Also the recommended version to downgrade is 3.6.21. (As a result of [https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/forums/contributors/707522 this] SUMO thread, not decided yet but I think it's a good one.). So there is no problem with these posts of mine.
The second issue. I only posted 2 topics in there. The main one was about the font problem of FF6.0. [https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/863157 Here]. There I came up with lots of posts, all of them were analyzing the problem.I don't think I've done something to be reported as an abuse here. (And also not a thing to go somewhere else ranting... as '''Lucy''' suggested.) You can simply check the date of the posts being modified, indicating that I didn't change them to remove my charges! (Completing my defense...)
I first didn't know about the SUMO threads. But after some days of giving solutions, Ed messaged me and told me about here. So I checked one of two important threads, concerting my posts. After that all of the future posts and the most of the past one were revised (According to SUMO threads.)
So now tell me, am I really an abuse?
See the last point in the Posting Replies section.
It is now settled that providing FTP link to users is Unnecessary & an Irresponsible behavior.
Answering Support Questions - Posting Replies
* https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/answering-support-questions#w_posting-replies
See the last point in the Posting Replies section.
I'm not sure what the discussion about logging in is about. You already need to be logged in to post in the support forum. Am I missing something?
mha007 I think you may be misunderstanding that thread. No-one said posting a link to the FTP server was necessary. It's just a matter of what version is being linked to, and providing a warning if it's a link to an unsupported version in cases where you're unable to solve the problem without downgrading.
I'm not sure what the discussion about logging in is about. You already need to be logged in to post in the support forum. Am I missing something?
* '''mha007''' I think you may be misunderstanding that thread. No-one said posting a link to the FTP server was necessary. It's just a matter of what version is being linked to, and providing a warning if it's a link to an unsupported version in cases where you're unable to solve the problem without downgrading.
@ mha007 I read that thread, nothing was indicated as what you said in your earlier post.
Well, I agree with Chris_Ilias. I believe we can warn the users of the risks, but we cannot force them to do the right thing. We have people out there really want the unsupported versions regardless of the risks. And most of my posts, suggesting downgrading have the required warnings.
@ Chris_Ilias About the logging in. We may just forget about it. It was nothing special. This topic concerns the irresponsibility of me as a support user (Which I refuse to accept!).
Now these are the questions to be answered:
1. Is linking users to ftp server wrong? (We consider that we warned them of risks and recommended the right version to downgrade before providing them with the link.)
2. According to my charges and defense which both was presented here in earlier posts, am I to be considered as an irresponsible support user, or not?
@ '''mha007''' I read that thread, nothing was indicated as what you said in your earlier post.
* Well, I agree with '''Chris_Ilias'''. I believe we can warn the users of the risks, but we cannot force them to do the right thing. We have people out there really want the unsupported versions regardless of the risks. And most of my posts, suggesting downgrading have the required warnings.
@ '''Chris_Ilias''' About the logging in. We may just forget about it. It was nothing special. This topic concerns the irresponsibility of me as a support user (Which I refuse to accept!).
Now these are the questions to be answered:
1. Is linking users to ftp server wrong? (We consider that we warned them of risks and recommended the right version to downgrade before providing them with the link.)
2. According to my charges and defense which both was presented here in earlier posts, am I to be considered as an irresponsible support user, or not?
I understand your frustration, but you need to step back and not take this so personally. First of all, since your posts weren't linked you should realize that most of us were discussing a type of situation and not you yourself.
Besides that, no one has actually linked to you doing something wrong yet, so no, the case hasn't been made yet. We're all trying to look out for the best interests of the users, but people make mistakes. It takes patience and a thick skin to do user support (especially for free).
There are other threads for discussing the ftp issue etc. Is there anything else that needs to be addressed (the negative posts?) or can we all calm down and go about our business?
I understand your frustration, but you need to step back and not take this so personally. First of all, since your posts weren't linked you should realize that most of us were discussing a type of situation and not you yourself.
Besides that, no one has actually linked to you doing something wrong yet, so no, the case hasn't been made yet. We're all trying to look out for the best interests of the users, but people make mistakes. It takes patience and a thick skin to do user support (especially for free).
There are other threads for discussing the ftp issue etc. Is there anything else that needs to be addressed (the negative posts?) or can we all calm down and go about our business?
I second Lucy's post, lets not get angry; and instead just look at the problems that arise.
I may myself in response to direct requests have been guilty of giving out ftp server info, however I look to this forum for guidance. I do empathise with CseC as being the person named in this particular thread. Not surprisingly! CseC is defending the position taken!
I can only express a personal opinion, but I think the subject of insecure downgrades is something we were unprepared for and were again caught wrong footed. Lacking any prior guidance all we can hope to do is discuss such subjects as they arise.
I would therefore thank both the OP for pointing out the potential problems and CseC for contributing instead of deserting the cause. Lets hope we can all work together in future, and see constructive results from these postings.
John an ordinary poster, no connection with Mozilla
PS
Anyone know how long 3.6 is being supported for ? any official announcements ?
I second Lucy's post, <br/> lets not get angry; and instead just look at the problems that arise.
I may myself in response to direct requests have been guilty of giving out ftp server info, however I look to this forum for guidance. I do empathise with CseC as being the person named in this particular thread. Not surprisingly! CseC is defending the position taken!
I can only express a personal opinion, but I think the subject of insecure downgrades is something we were unprepared for and were again caught wrong footed. Lacking any prior guidance all we can hope to do is discuss such subjects as they arise.
I would therefore thank both the OP for pointing out the potential problems and CseC for contributing instead of deserting the cause. Lets hope we can all work together in future, and see constructive results from these postings.
John <br/> an ordinary poster, no connection with Mozilla
PS <br/>
Anyone know how long 3.6 is being supported for ? <br/> any official announcements ?
''John99 [[#post-42488|said]]''
<blockquote>
Anyone know how long 3.6 is being supported for ? <br/> any official announcements ?
</blockquote>
According to the [https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Planning/2011-09-07#Questions.2C_Comments.2C_FYI latest product delivery meeting notes], "''Assume the current direction: we're doing updates until you hear differently'' "
I changed the title of this post. In the future please do not point out specific users here in the contributor forum. If there is anything about specific users please send me a PM or alert a moderator.
I don't do this often, but please read the following as a message from an administrator aka person making the final call, because I really want to put this FTP thing behind me:
Linking to the FTP server is not against any rules, if it were a problem we would put it behind a login or secure it somehow. Linking to unsupported versions is discouraged. Do it only when there is no other way and make sure to point out that people put themselves at risk. If you see a post where that warning is missing, edit the post if you are a moderator and send them a PM about it. You can also add a warning as a reply if you are not a moderator.
CseC, welcome to SUMO!
I changed the title of this post. In the future please do not point out specific users here in the contributor forum. If there is anything about specific users please send me a PM or alert a moderator.
I don't do this often, but please read the following as a message from an administrator aka person making the final call, because I really want to put this FTP thing behind me:
Linking to the FTP server is not against any rules, if it were a problem we would put it behind a login or secure it somehow. Linking to unsupported versions is discouraged. Do it only when there is no other way and make sure to point out that people put themselves at risk. If you see a post where that warning is missing, edit the post if you are a moderator and send them a PM about it. You can also add a warning as a reply if you are not a moderator.
CseC, welcome to SUMO!
