You are absolutely correct for IMAP accounts -- OAuth2 is indeed available for those.

Right. I found an old comment here https://blog.thunderbird.net/2015/06/thunderbird-38-released/#comment-858 confirming OAuth2 was infact available for IMAP and SMTP only at that time. Google's OAuth2 process didn't have POP3 support just yet, until much much later as tracked in the bug report filed here https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1538409. It wasn't until two years ago, in TB 68.5.0, that OAuth2 support for POP3 accounts was added, as stated here https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/68.5.0/releasenotes/. Now you know, for certain, that you have to jump to 68.5.0+ if you wish to use OAuth2 for your POP3 accounts.

So my understanding is that everything will be OK with my IMAP accounts if I just switch to OAuth2 instead of password

Yes.

and that everything will be OK if I switch my POP accounts to IMAP and switch from password to OAuth2

No. You can't simply change existing accounts from POP to IMAP. It's not a matter of simply changing server settings from POP to IMAP. If you tried, you'll just get an error. The only way is to add the IMAP account as a new account (and optionally delete the POP3 account). That is simple enough, but with your tree of folders and multitude of messages, it's quite a task that's just not worth the trouble especially since you have the option of not doing anything except use an app password.

This means that I will be able to continue to use Thunderbird 38 until they come up with some other nastiness, right?

Sure, and I can guarantee that it's just a matter of (not a long) time before you start having connection problems because of expired certificates used for SSL/TLS.

OR I could theck Thunderbird's "Use a master password" box, which requires it to be entered at each session. Is that the same as an "app password"? Could I do this and leave my accounts as POP?

Nope. That's not the purpose of the master password. It's for TB's internal use only and it's never transmitted outside your computer, so it's never sent to any remote server. The app password is one that you generate from your Google Account (not in Thunderbird). Technically, it's generated by your Google Account's server, but you have to sign in to your Google Account and manually initiate the process via the settings page.

Then you will be looking for a version that supports oAuth for POP. That is way after V38. According to the bug report that was V68. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1538409

Note especially. oAuth will be authenticated once and will renew tokens in the background. You don't get to play with per session passwords, your account will be downloaded without your intervention with a password. A Thunderbird primary password is not and never will be anything but a local password for unlocking your stored passwords for accessing accounts. It does provide some control over the use of stored passwords and tokens. It will not grant you access to Google by itself.

An app password is not a primary password. I suggest you read up on what Google have to say about their app passwords without assuming anything about how they "might" work.

Note: The following article is relevant even if you don't use a version that has had the known vulnerabilities patched. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/automatic-conversion-google-mail-accounts-oauth20

Thank you, gentlemen. Replies to both of you -- I can't figure out how to do the quote thing, so I'll just assume you guys know what you wrote...

STANS: I will try TB68 and see what happens. Maybe it won't suck as much as I anticipate. I switched two of my pop gmail accounts to pop AND imap at the site, and call them imap in TB. The folder tree is kind of ugly, but it seems to work.

MATT: I'll definitely try TB68.

Thanks again!

In case it isn't absolutely clear already, there is absolutely no difference in mail account authentication processes for Windows and Linux.

> I've been tweaking TB since it was Netscape .9 and appearance and LEGIBILITY (Arial bold) is really important for something that I use for many hours per day.

I'm with you on readability. But I tend to use native OS display scaling so that ALL applications are more readable - it's reliable and I don't need to twiddle with css. (I previously used the Theme and Font size changer addon, which is defunct)

That said, there are plans post version 102 to have native scaling, and better font selection. (who knows, it might even happen during version 102)

Sorry, I can't figure out how to reply to individual posts. There seems to be a 'post reply' thing only at the bottom of the page, not under each message.

Wayne: "In case it isn't absolutely clear already, there is absolutely no difference in mail account authentication processes for Windows and Linux."

Sorry, given that in ONE instance long ago that was NOT true and was NOT explained until I pissed somebody off enough to actually tell me that there was a difference, that's just not believable. NOBODY has time to make sure that every little thing works on all platforms. It's enough if people respond by repairing something, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Aside: back when hubby sold assemblers and cross-assemblers by mail, if somebody found a bug he would fix it immediately and ship out a new floppy disk the next day. He would also develop new cross-assemblers at no additional charge if people would send him the instruction set. THAT's customer service.

I'm running slackware 14.2. There is NO universal font; fonts must be chosen for each individual application. I have already tweaked the .css files to my greater satisfaction.

I installed TB68. It's a little better than 91, but does NOT provide OAuth2 for POP accounts. It also doesn't seem to accept my .css entries. It does, however, put the message pane in the center. Curious, because that's an entry in a .css file. I need to play some more with the settings before I throw it away, though. And see what extensions and themes are available.

I really don't understand why ALL fonts are not selectable. I have a shitpot of ttf fonts and would rather use them than the ones programs select by themselves.

The nightly Firefox is very nearly like my current (#82), responding properly to my settings etc. Why is Thunderbird so much more user-hostile?

> I can't figure out how to reply to individual posts.

Are there three dots next to each posting? If so, there is a "quote" choice.

I guess we'll just disagree on the authentication piece. And fwiw I've done a bit of assembler on big iron in my day - and probably several other people here. But such comparisons really don't matter in this context.

> The nightly Firefox is very nearly like my current (#82), responding properly to my settings etc. Why is Thunderbird so much more user-hostile?

Because Thunderbird front end development took at 10-15 year hiatus. That's the pain you feel, understandably, and unfortunately. But it's not the fault of the current development staff. But it is in the process of being remedied.

IOW, don't shoot the messenger. Along those lines, you can continue to use CSS, but as you progress into current and future versions your handiwork will definitely be less likely to work, perhaps to the point of not working at all. But the hope is that newer versions will have greater capability such that less css is warranted.

>> I can't figure out how to reply to individual posts.

> Are there three dots next to each posting? If so, there is a "quote" choice.

Jeez, I didn't even see those. Thanks.

> IOW, don't shoot the messenger. Along those lines, you can continue to use CSS, but as you progress into current and future versions your handiwork will definitely be less likely to work, perhaps to the point of not working at all. But the hope is that newer versions will have greater capability such that less css is warranted.

I wish I could believe that, but unless they give complete control of the GUI that doesn't seem likely. THIS is what I want and apparently can't have. https://ibb.co/47S8GSx

It has to be TB 68.5.0 or higher.

OK, I'll try 68.12.1, the latest listed.

68.12 worked with OAuth2 for both the POP and SMTP servers/accounts. Haven't checked all the extensions, but it's sufficiently like my REAL TB38 that I can work with it.

THANK YOU!

I know it's a bit late, but thank you both for this discussion - you've saved me a lot of time!

I too, had been using TB 38 for many years, and ran into problems with OAuth2 this morning via gmail. 68.12 worked a treat (I have since tested other, older versions on Windows, but they only seemed to include OAuth2 for outgoing).

Also if you do happen to read this Bashley101, I'd recommend considering upgrading Slackware 15.0 now that it's finally out. I made the switch a few months ago & aside from me accidentally using the huge kernel instead of generic for my ancient server (leading to failure to boot until I corrected that), it was completely painless.

Every single update has been fraught with peril. The last one took Hubby over a day to iron out all the bugs. His own machine (hardware is a duplicate of mine) has no problems at all. One problems is that I insist on using Picasa as a photo editor (this is not negotiable), which requires a whole separate library to deal with 32-bit applications and which causes other problems. In addition, I believe that my machine (assembled from parts from Fry's, and we all know about THOSE problems) has certain toxic characteristics that make it do weird stuff. Long story, but it explains why I am super-reluctant to do any sort of updating.

That only ONE of my gmail accounts would be unreachable by Thunderbird seems insane. That it's the one that gets the most mail and which I sort automatically is maddening.