I will preempt this by saying I have my own personal issues with supernova. I am not an evangelist.

The first thing to consider is what software on your computer might be in a position to make a program think it has no disk space and can not open files? Everyone jumps to "malware" but in reality if you have a third party antivirus, or internet security suite, it is probably the issue.

Yes I am taking your issues out of order, but I think that that is the key issue. Repopulating something from a disk file being slow is probably related to the inability to read and write to the disk. Beyond the simplicity of the antivirus being the issue (restarting the operating system in safe mode with networking ios considered the standard diagnostic to eliminate outside influences like Av and other software like cloud sync and streaming backups which can also mimic no file access.

When it comes to folder counts of unread and total messages. Unread messages in sub folders are included in the count for their parent when collapsed as demonstrated below in a trash folder.

If you want to have a discussion about a crash, please provide the submitted crash report id so we can look at it. See https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/mozilla-crash-reporter-tb#w_viewing-crash-reports

Thank you for your answer - though it doesn't help. All of this started when I went from release 102.15.1 to 115.5.1. Everything was working fine in 102.15.1. I have added some comments to my problems.

(1) Once again I can not click on an email link and have it open in Firefox. This has been broken in at least three of the updates in the last year and fixed in subsequent updates. Seems like they would actually try and test it each time since they keep breaking it and is something most people use.

(2) Quick filter doesn't seem to work very well any more. It might give me what I am looking for, but when I close quick filter, it starts putting back messages very slowly one at a time for minutes. This seems to be a change in the algorithm that is crazy, quite confusing, and time consuming for the user.

(3) I am getting fairly constant messages that it can't write to disk because the disk is full or it doesn't have permissions (both of which are wrong). It worked in the previous release and the only thing updated on the system was TB. Yes, I already tried a clean boot without loading anything and still ran into the problem. The other thing of note, is that it receives new messages and can compact folders without giving me this error, so it can read and write to the same disk it is complaining about. This morning it seems to have started working "automagically". Seems like there is a memory problem.

(4) I have a local sub-folder that contains 2022 emails and it has started listing some of those emails as part of the current inbox and no longer shows them as part of the 2022 sub-folder. I am not talking about record counts. I did a move-to from the inbox to the local sub-folder some months ago of email from Oct 2022 to Dec 2022, compacted the inbox and everything looked fine (i.e., no emails from Oct 2022 to Dec 2022 in the inbox). After installing 115.5.1, Oct 2022 to Dec 2022 headers (subject, correspondents, and dates) are now showing up in the inbox (along with random files from my trash) and NOT in the local 2022 sub-folder.

(5) And finally it has crashed several time. Yes - I have let the dumps be sent to development, but it seems to me that 115 is much more unstable than previous versions - which is not unusual for major changes in code. However, there should have been a bigger warning than a new version is available to install. I am like a lot of people and don't follow all the work being done on a product. I just want the product to work so I can get my work done and not have to learn what problems to work around.

1. I use windows and have never in a decade actually seen the issue you describe. It seems to me that there may be more of a correlation between antivirus products in there for folk that appear to have this issue again and again. I base this on really having seen perhaps one instance of this in Linux in a decade and on apple devices only since they started installing antivirus products in the last few years.

2. I still say see the issue I mention in 1. I don't see it with 115, 120 or 102.

3. Again what gets between the software and the disk.... anti virus product first, and cloud sync and streaming backups come second.

4. Perhaps post an image showing this issue. Because clearly I do not understand. Is the account an IMAP one? There are often issues with them when they are treated like a file system and thousands of mails are moved. The update message gets lost in all the round trips to the server. Imap is meant to action perhaps a few hundred mail in an action. Not thousands. It may be that now a full sync has occured and prior failures are not showing up.

5. I still see no crash Id's for these crashes. It seems to me asking for facts does not get them. Personally I have no interest in your perceptions of stability. This is a support forum where we try and work out what it causing the problems. I am interested in why it crashed, that involves you giving me the crash id's so I can actually have a look at the data that was submitted. Probably again it will be your choice of antivirus program, or already installed malware. But I still have nothing more than supposition and guess work on which to base anything.

Matt -

Let me start by saying thank you for your work on the support forum.

However, I don't care that you have never seen anything like this in your decade of using windows. I have been a programmer for over 40 years, working for three computer manufacturers, developing code for applications, compilers, and operating systems on mainframes and PCs (running proprietary OSs, Windows, and a variety of Unix variants) and I have seen a lot stranger things than anything I have described in my previous post. I am also sure you don't care, but I have some free advice for you.

You seem to have a fixation with antivirus software as being the problem. I have heard this numerous times and can count on one hand how many times I have actually found the antivirus software being the problem. And as far as malware, I have scanned multiple times with different antivirus software and have found nothing.

As I have already stated, doing a clean boot and not loading any drivers gave me the same problem. As for cloud sync and streaming backups, I don't do them on the system this is failing on. If you want facts, then try and ask questions. I can spent days defining all the things that aren't on my system or aren't being done by my system.

Finally a question that I can answer. I use POP.

TB 115.5.1 has blown out of the water 3 times and only shows one dump even though I said to go ahead and send all 3. I haven't given dump info, because I am not as worried about a crash (since none of the problems I described before resulted in a crash), as I am about it l doing crazy things like moving data where I don't want it.

Dumps are easy - until you start working with parallel processes interacting. The "crazy" things that happen and don't give you dumps are the hard ones. Want to have some fun - try debugging propriety code that you can't get all the source for, running as one program across 24 processors and only fails by giving the wrong result once every 100,000 runs or so.

So you don't care about user perceptions. I think you might want to reconsider. User perceptions are their reality. If a product can't be trusted, then you loose users, which is great if you don't want a product to survive.

And here is another piece to the puzzle. Compacting the mail folders seems to have caused my problems to go away - which I thought was only reclaiming disk space. My guess is there are some memory problems in the new code.

I agree with Matt, and I suggest you take the wisdom of his advice.

Wayne -

So your choices for the problem are that it is malware or a virus scanner.

I have proved to my satisfaction that it is not the virus scanner - first by turning it off and then totally removing it and all the files associated with it.

As for proving it is not malware, that is impossible. I can prove that a half-dozen different virus scanners do not find anything on my system. That doesn't mean that there isn't malware on my system. It only proves that they don't find it.

I do have a question though. Which is more probable: (1) that somehow malware downloaded onto my system and can't be found by the best virus scanners we have at the same time that I downloaded TB 115.5.1 (or only activated when it saw TB 115.5.1), is only causing random email problems, and having no affect on any other files on my system OR (2) the new code in TB 115.5.1 is buggy and causing the problem.

If you really believe that (1) is more probable, what exactly would you suggest?

I could reformat and do a clean install of Windows, but as soon as it is connected to the internet for updates you can claim malware has infected the system. I could keep it off the internet, but then I couldn't use TB for email - which sort of defeats the whole purpose of having an email program.

I have an idea. why don't you prove that the product doesn't have bugs. It would definitely be a more effective use of my time.

Your initial choice here is to put some level of trust in roughly (I estimate) a combined 30 years of experience supporting Thunderbird, or not and wait for some version of Thunderbird in future years which may or may not solve your problem. Our initial perspective of experience, plus the *combination* of items you wrote in your initial post, strongly suggests that something on your PC is affecting Thunderbird. And the probability increases when you are on Windows.

No one is saying there is no possibility of bugs in Thunderbird, or that these recommendations will help everything you cited, but it would be a solid starting point. And some if it is dead easy.

> (1) Quick filter doesn't seem to work very well any more. It might give me what I am looking for, but when I close it quick filter, it starts putting back messages very slowly one at a time for minutes.

How many messages in the folder? And apparently you can easily reproduce this - so does it happen with Windows started in safe mode and Thunderbird started in Troubleshoot Mode?

> (3) I am getting fairly constant messages that it can't write to disk because the disk is full or it doesn't have permissions (both of which are wrong). > (4) I have a sub-folder that contains 2022 emails and it has started listing those emails as part of the current inbox and no longer shows them as part of the 2022 sub-folder.

Screen shots please for both.

> (5) And finally it has crashed several time.

Please post your crash IDs here. Instructions at https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/mozilla-crash-reporter-tb

Wayne -

I don't discount your knowledge or experience. I am only a user of the product. However, I have been using it since it was a product you paid for and this is the first time I have seen so many problems. There have been minor problems that I have ignored or worked around over the years, but overall it has held up very well.

This time it is doing a number of incredibly weird things - and worse, it is losing data. I am not arrogant enough to challenge you and have jumped through the hoops the last couple of days, doing reboots, removing my virus scanner, scanning for phantom malware, etc. only to be told that it has to be the virus scanner. That I am arrogant enough to say BS to.

As for the problems I listed: (1) email links not being clickable - it seems to be sporadic, working and not working depending on the invocation of email (2) quick filter - other people seem to be having the problem as well (3) disk errors - problem has gone away by itself - which makes me feel like it is a memory issue (overflowing a buffer or not initializing something) - seems to have completely cleared when I compacted a the inbox (4) messages showing up in the wrong folder - a screen shot isn't going to help because all it is going to show is that the files are now in the inbox and I have no "proof" that I ever moved them - unless I do a restore since it was backuped - and I am not going to do that. I moved about 25,000 emails from the inbox to a local sub-folder 2022 in July using a move-to command and everything was fine. Started using TB 115 and now those emails are showing up in the inbox and not in the sub-folder. At the same time random emails that were deleted and in my trash randomly started coming out of the trash and again appearing in the inbox. This problem seems to have stopped after I compacted the inbox again - though I did compact it after the first moveto in July. (5) As I said before only one dump seems to have been sent (of three) and while this interchange has been "entertaining", I am not worried about the problem. At this point I am more concerned about data being lost - which isn't being addressed. Yesterday, I lost all the files in my sent mail folder and it now shows that there are 2 unread messages - even though going to the folder shows nothing.

So here is my suggestion on how to proceed. Give me a pointer to how to back out 115 and go back to my previous version. - so that I can stop the damage from continuing. Or better yet, give me a pointer on how to keep my data files and reinstall an old version (not 115 based) from scratch and move the data files over on the same system. That way I can make sure that 115 is really gone and make sure that I have a clean starting point (since I have been doing updates of TB for the last 5 years on this machine).

In a couple of months when I finish with a couple of other problems I am having on a different system (i.e., being forced to Windows 11 even though I said not to update it), I will be getting a new system and will start by installing a clean new version of 115 on it and we can go from there.

This is happening about once a month on my TB gmail - thousands of old emails arrive as new. Today the same thing occurred on my business account with IONOS 13300 old emails from 21/10/2023 to 23/02/2024 - and no new emails!

This is happening about once a month on my TB gmail - thousands of old emails arrive as new. Today the same thing occurred on my business account with IONOS 13300 old emails from 21/10/2023 to 23/02/2024 - and no new emails!

Hello professorcad. I see you have posted at https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1442259 so I suggest we discuss your problem there, not here in part because I don't see a strong correlation to keduncan's, which hasn't updated updated in several months.

keduncan, version 115.9.0 has a fix for quick filter which may help you.