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Is Firefox 53 the cause of Windows freezing?

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Since two weeks or so, whenever I'm (also) running Firefox 53, all over sudden my whole pc freezes: nothing works anymore, no mouse, no task manager, nothing. FF does not create a crash report (doesn't get a chance to do so) All I can do is a hard reset. This does NOT happen when I'm not using FF. (Sometimes I get a warning that Firefox has stopped, but then it keeps running, so probably one of extensions or add-ons has failed.) I have a stand alone, always fully updates Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 pc. SFC /scannow was ok, CHKDSK had to repair errors in the volume bitmap, and memtest86+/8 passes came clean. I cleaned up FF and am now only running one extension.

There can be three causes: 1. Firefox 53 2. Extension(s) 3. Windows (latest updates) 4. Other/unknown

I generated a memory report, which is abracadabra to me, but I it points out what's wrong and someone can explain what to do. But how can I post the memory-report.json.txt?

Since two weeks or so, whenever I'm (also) running Firefox 53, all over sudden my whole pc freezes: nothing works anymore, no mouse, no task manager, nothing. FF does not create a crash report (doesn't get a chance to do so) All I can do is a hard reset. This does NOT happen when I'm not using FF. (Sometimes I get a warning that Firefox has stopped, but then it keeps running, so probably one of extensions or add-ons has failed.) I have a stand alone, always fully updates Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 pc. SFC /scannow was ok, CHKDSK had to repair errors in the volume bitmap, and memtest86+/8 passes came clean. I cleaned up FF and am now only running one extension. There can be three causes: 1. Firefox 53 2. Extension(s) 3. Windows (latest updates) 4. Other/unknown I generated a memory report, which is abracadabra to me, but I it points out what's wrong and someone can explain what to do. But how can I post the memory-report.json.txt?

Mehr Details zum System

Installierte Plugins

  • Shockwave Flash 25.0 r0

Anwendung

  • User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:53.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/53.0

Weitere Informationen

AmityGames 0 Lösungen 24 Antworten
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cor-el said

Do you have the about:newtab page set as the new tab page? Does this also happen if you middle-click the home toolbar button or open an about:blank page via Alt + Enter?

Yes, new BLANK tab indeed (all new tabs and home are set to blank)

I was brave/foolish enough to type about:newtab in the address bar and there was no crash. However, pressing (+) does not lead to crashes all the time, so this does not mean much.

I don't know (Alt-Enter) or (Ctrl-T) would trigger the crash. At this point I want to avoid it at all cost since it takes a long time to recover from it.

It's possible the creation of a BLANK tab by any mechanism is the cause, rather than the click on (+) - because the new tabs I safely create from within existing tabs open existing links on these tabs (right-click link then select open new tab). Creating new non-blank tabs to links has never caused a crash - and FF is set to NOT go to the new tab created from link immediately.

''cor-el [[#answer-970074|said]]'' <blockquote> Do you have the about:newtab page set as the new tab page? Does this also happen if you middle-click the home toolbar button or open an about:blank page via Alt + Enter? </blockquote> Yes, new BLANK tab indeed (all new tabs and home are set to blank) I was brave/foolish enough to type about:newtab in the address bar and there was no crash. However, pressing (+) does not lead to crashes all the time, so this does not mean much. I don't know (Alt-Enter) or (Ctrl-T) would trigger the crash. At this point I want to avoid it at all cost since it takes a long time to recover from it. It's possible the creation of a BLANK tab by any mechanism is the cause, rather than the click on (+) - because the new tabs I safely create from within existing tabs open existing links on these tabs (right-click link then select open new tab). Creating new non-blank tabs to links has never caused a crash - and FF is set to NOT go to the new tab created from link immediately.
John99 971 Lösungen 13138 Antworten
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It may be better to discuss your issues in your thread

  • Firefox freezes on Win7 Pro x64 followed by reboot-requiring Windows crash /questions/1160417

Rather than this thread

  • Is Firefox 53 the cause of Windows freezing? /questions/1158873 |Posted by someone else.
It may be better to discuss your issues in your thread * Firefox freezes on Win7 Pro x64 followed by reboot-requiring Windows crash [/questions/1160417] Rather than this thread * Is Firefox 53 the cause of Windows freezing? [/questions/1158873] |Posted by someone else.

Geändert am von John99

John99 971 Lösungen 13138 Antworten
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If anyone else is seeing this issue or a similar issue I suggest

  • Vote on this thread to show that you are seeing the issue.
  • Post your own question with a suitable title, and attempt to give the troubleshooting information requested in the question asking workflow.
  • Post in this thread but only to comment that you have started a question of your own.
If '''anyone else is seeing this issue''' or a similar issue I suggest * Vote on this thread to show that you are seeing the issue. * Post your own question with a suitable title, and attempt to give the troubleshooting information requested in the question asking workflow. * Post in this thread but only to comment that you have started a question of your own.
Neph 0 Lösungen 19 Antworten
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I'm experiencing the same problem since 53.x came out, going to open my own thread with infos about my hardware in a couple of minutes!

I'm experiencing the same problem since 53.x came out, going to open my own thread with infos about my hardware in a couple of minutes!
FredMcD
  • Top 10 Contributor
4224 Lösungen 58953 Antworten
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Neph question;

https://support.mozilla.org/questions/1160901 FF 53.x freezes and locks up my PC

'''Neph''' question; https://support.mozilla.org/questions/1160901 FF 53.x freezes and locks up my PC

Fragesteller

MAYBE (a big one), this is all caused by the recent published Windows 7/8 DOS $MFT-problem?

MAYBE (a big one), this is all caused by the recent published Windows 7/8 DOS $MFT-problem?
John99 971 Lösungen 13138 Antworten
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Can you explain what that is please. Presumably on Windows 7/8 if an issue is caused by a Windows update users are able to test such a theory by removing updates - something that may not be, or not easily be done; in a domestic Windows 10 setup.

Can you explain what that is please. Presumably on Windows 7/8 if an issue is caused by a Windows update users are able to test such a theory by removing updates - something that may not be, or not easily be done; in a domestic Windows 10 setup.

Fragesteller

John99 zei

Can you explain what that is please. Presumably on Windows 7/8 if an issue is caused by a Windows update users are able to test such a theory by removing updates - something that may not be, or not easily be done; in a domestic Windows 10 setup.

Unfortunately this goes beyond MY tech skills but here's the source: ArsTechnica

I don't know if FF (webpages that is) ever addresses/tries to access the $MFT file, but the symptoms described are identical to what occurs on my pc.

''John99 [[#answer-972641|zei]]'' <blockquote> Can you explain what that is please. Presumably on Windows 7/8 if an issue is caused by a Windows update users are able to test such a theory by removing updates - something that may not be, or not easily be done; in a domestic Windows 10 setup. </blockquote> Unfortunately this goes beyond MY tech skills but here's the source: [https://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2017/05/in-a-throwback-to-the-90s-ntfs-bug-lets-anyone-hang-or-crash-windows-7-8-1/ ArsTechnica] I don't know if FF (webpages that is) ever addresses/tries to access the $MFT file, but the symptoms described are identical to what occurs on my pc.

Geändert am von wwwaste

John99 971 Lösungen 13138 Antworten
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OK that is interesting. It may not be a Firefox bug but it would be something very important.

The ars technica site is one that I respect as a useful source of information but the webpage you link to currently says Microsoft has been informed, but at the time of publication has not told us when or if the problem will be patched. So I guess we need to wait for an update where either ars technicha corrects and updates its assertions, or MS lets us know there is a real issue.

OK that is interesting. It may not be a Firefox bug but it would be something very important. The ars technica site is one that I respect as a useful source of information but the webpage you link to currently says ''Microsoft has been informed, but at the time of publication has not told us when or if the problem will be patched.'' So I guess we need to wait for an update where either ars technicha corrects and updates its assertions, or MS lets us know there is a real issue.
AmityGames 0 Lösungen 24 Antworten
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That sounds like a plausible mechanism to explain the crash behavior after FF hangs:

1) new tab in malformed "Not Responding" window (covers FF client area, tab animation does not play to put tab where it settles)

2) WinOS superficially seems normal - mouse moves, icons highlight, menus come up

3) However any deeper WinOS action - accessing a folder...etc causes WinOS to freeze completely (nothing but hardware reset works)

Indeed, the sequence of events correlates with an infite loop or overflow around a system resource.

If that's the case, the problem is not fixable in Windows... it's the app that needs to restrain itself from using certain file names. In any case, we have the latest Win updates active.

And the behavior started with FF53.

Can you please let the Dev team know of this? A lot of people seem to say they have this problem

That sounds like a plausible mechanism to explain the crash behavior after FF hangs: 1) new tab in malformed "Not Responding" window (covers FF client area, tab animation does not play to put tab where it settles) 2) WinOS superficially seems normal - mouse moves, icons highlight, menus come up 3) However any deeper WinOS action - accessing a folder...etc causes WinOS to freeze completely (nothing but hardware reset works) Indeed, the sequence of events correlates with an infite loop or overflow around a system resource. If that's the case, the problem is not fixable in Windows... it's the app that needs to restrain itself from using certain file names. In any case, we have the latest Win updates active. And the behavior started with FF53. Can you please let the Dev team know of this? A lot of people seem to say they have this problem

Geändert am von AmityGames

AmityGames 0 Lösungen 24 Antworten
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John99 said

OK that is interesting. It may not be a Firefox bug but it would be something very important. ...

Thank you for the reply. I also responded with some observations.

If that's the case, it's unlikely MSFT will ever address it, because their special file names are a "Feature", not a bug. In their publication, they'll say its up to the client app to not use such special file names.

Did the FF53 dev changed or introduced a new file name that conflicts with the reserved names for NTFS?

''John99 [[#answer-972704|said]]'' <blockquote> OK that is interesting. It may not be a Firefox bug but it would be something very important. ... </blockquote> Thank you for the reply. I also responded with some observations. If that's the case, it's unlikely MSFT will ever address it, because their special file names are a "Feature", not a bug. In their publication, they'll say its up to the client app to not use such special file names. Did the FF53 dev changed or introduced a new file name that conflicts with the reserved names for NTFS?
John99 971 Lösungen 13138 Antworten
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AmityGames You do have your own thread where you may test and report problems. As a developer you probably have better control of machines than most people on this forum.

I believe you thought the issue was Firefox version related, now possibly you are leaning towards it being MS version related. As someone able to select and test Fx versions and MS updates you may be able to provide useful insights.

You keep mentioning

Can you please let the Dev team know of this? A lot of people seem to say they have this problem

That entails filing a bug. I personally try to avoid using Windows, but currently have W10 easily available but am not seeing this issue. Possibly this is a Win 7-8+ issue. That is something I can not immediately check. I am not prepared to file a bug that I can not reproduce myself without strong evidence that others see and are able to reproduce the issue; and then it would normally be better if the person seeing the issue files a bug - especially where it is a developer identifying an issue, although in some circumstances I will happily file bugs on behalf of others.

AmityGames You do have your own thread where you may test and report problems. As a developer you probably have better control of machines than most people on this forum. I believe you thought the issue was Firefox version related, now possibly you are leaning towards it being MS version related. As someone able to select and test Fx versions and MS updates you may be able to provide useful insights. You keep mentioning <blockquote>'''Can you please let the Dev team know of this?''' A lot of people seem to say they have this problem</blockquote> '''That entails filing a bug.''' I personally try to avoid using Windows, but currently have W10 easily available but am not seeing this issue. Possibly this is a Win 7-8+ issue. That is something I can not immediately check. I am not prepared to file a bug that I can not reproduce myself without strong evidence that others see and are able to reproduce the issue; and then it would normally be better if the person seeing the issue files a bug - especially where it is a developer identifying an issue, although in some circumstances I will happily file bugs on behalf of others.
AmityGames 0 Lösungen 24 Antworten
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John99 said

AmityGames You do have your own thread where you may test and report problems. As a developer you probably have better control of machines than most people on this forum. I believe you thought the issue was Firefox version related, ...

Thank you for the reply - good points. However, I really do not have the bandwith to investigate. We're working almost 24 hr shifts, and the FF crashes really hurt.

On my own thread/reporting - it's a bit confusing to figure out where to post. I can't find my old thread anymore.

On FF53/MSFT - definitely FF53 (emphasize 53) related. Not really a MSFT bug, I just pointed out the NSFT "feature" that may be related - but I have no evidence it's that particular interaction. Only those who wrote FF53 may be able to confirm/pinpoint it.

Again, with time, these painful crashes will condition to avoid creating new tabs. I'd rather burn my finger on the stove than endure another 2hr RAID rebuild due to someone clicking (+) new tab in FF53.

Win8/10 are horrible pieces of garbage spyware. We do not use them for actual work and will hold back as long as possible.

''John99 [[#answer-972715|said]]'' <blockquote> AmityGames You do have your own thread where you may test and report problems. As a developer you probably have better control of machines than most people on this forum. I believe you thought the issue was Firefox version related, ... </blockquote> Thank you for the reply - good points. However, I really do not have the bandwith to investigate. We're working almost 24 hr shifts, and the FF crashes really hurt. On my own thread/reporting - it's a bit confusing to figure out where to post. I can't find my old thread anymore. On FF53/MSFT - definitely FF53 (emphasize 53) related. Not really a MSFT bug, I just pointed out the NSFT "feature" that may be related - but I have no evidence it's that particular interaction. Only those who wrote FF53 may be able to confirm/pinpoint it. Again, with time, these painful crashes will condition to avoid creating new tabs. I'd rather burn my finger on the stove than endure another 2hr RAID rebuild due to someone clicking (+) new tab in FF53. Win8/10 are horrible pieces of garbage spyware. We do not use them for actual work and will hold back as long as possible.

Geändert am von AmityGames

John99 971 Lösungen 13138 Antworten
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Your own thread should be easy to find. In both lots of forum software clicking on your avatar or your profile link should get you to a list of your questions.

Your own thread should be easy to find. In both lots of forum software clicking on your avatar or your profile link should get you to a list of your questions. * your questions https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/search/advanced?a=1&asked_by=AmityGames&sortby=1&w=2 ** Firefox freezes on Win7 Pro x64 followed by reboot-requiring Windows crash [/questions/1160417]

Fragesteller

John99 zei

OK that is interesting. It may not be a Firefox bug but it would be something very important. The ars technica site is one that I respect as a useful source of information but the webpage you link to currently says Microsoft has been informed, but at the time of publication has not told us when or if the problem will be patched. So I guess we need to wait for an update where either ars technicha corrects and updates its assertions, or MS lets us know there is a real issue.

So do I understand correctly that you think this COULD be the problem of the freezes (when using FF)?

''John99 [[#answer-972704|zei]]'' <blockquote> OK that is interesting. It may not be a Firefox bug but it would be something very important. The ars technica site is one that I respect as a useful source of information but the webpage you link to currently says ''Microsoft has been informed, but at the time of publication has not told us when or if the problem will be patched.'' So I guess we need to wait for an update where either ars technicha corrects and updates its assertions, or MS lets us know there is a real issue. </blockquote> So do I understand correctly that you think this COULD be the problem of the freezes (when using FF)?
spywriter007 0 Lösungen 13 Antworten
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Hi Guys,

I am getting the same thing with windows freezing up.

I think it has something to do with scripting on certain websites... the scripting causes firefox to slow down... and then eventually stop responding. And rather than the browser crashing... which is preferable to it not responding... the firefox not responding problem then causes windows to lock up.

I think different scripts are being used for different ads on a website which is why is why this problem not always replicable.

BTW... I am using Adblock Plus and Windows 7 64 bit.

Hi Guys, I am getting the same thing with windows freezing up. I think it has something to do with scripting on certain websites... the scripting causes firefox to slow down... and then eventually stop responding. And rather than the browser crashing... which is preferable to it not responding... the firefox not responding problem then causes windows to lock up. I think different scripts are being used for different ads on a website which is why is why this problem not always replicable. BTW... I am using Adblock Plus and Windows 7 64 bit.
tomatoshadow2 20 Lösungen 241 Antworten
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I would be happy to file bugs for anyone, just give me the steps to reproduce.

I would be happy to file bugs for anyone, just give me the steps to reproduce.
cor-el
  • Top 10 Contributor
  • Moderator
17415 Lösungen 157316 Antworten
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This can possibly be a memory problem where Windows runs out of free memory and start paging data to the page file.

You can check that in the Windows Task Manager.


To file a bug you would first have to check this with a new clean profile and possibly do a clean reinstall and boot Windows in Safe Mode with network support as basic troubleshooting steps.

This can possibly be a memory problem where Windows runs out of free memory and start paging data to the page file. You can check that in the Windows Task Manager. ---- To file a bug you would first have to check this with a new clean profile and possibly do a clean reinstall and boot Windows in Safe Mode with network support as basic troubleshooting steps.
Neph 0 Lösungen 19 Antworten
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spywriter007 schrieb

Hi Guys, I am getting the same thing with windows freezing up. I think it has something to do with scripting on certain websites... the scripting causes firefox to slow down... and then eventually stop responding. And rather than the browser crashing... which is preferable to it not responding... the firefox not responding problem then causes windows to lock up. I think different scripts are being used for different ads on a website which is why is why this problem not always replicable. BTW... I am using Adblock Plus and Windows 7 64 bit.

How often does it happen for you, when and how long does it take until your PC freezes? Do you use the tiles on the "new tab" page?

But yes, that's what I've been thinking too. I'm heavily using the tiles on the "new tab" page and I have Adblock Plus and NoScript installed with scripts enabled for the websites I remember it happening with (Amazon, Youtube and a third). What's weird is that the website didn't even fully load when a freeze happened on my PC. As for a freeze that happens directly after opening a new, empty tab: Like I said, I'm using the tiles, so it's possible that I hovered over one of them on the way to the "+", which made the website get cached in the background including the scripts, which then made FF freeze (I've had a similar thing happen with Malwarebytes). To be honest, that's the best explanation I can think of. I still don't know why it "only" happens about once a week for me though.

cor-el schrieb

This can possibly be a memory problem where Windows runs out of free memory and start paging data to the page file.

I have 16gb of RAM that work properly, Win 7 usually uses less than 5gb (unless I'm playing a game) which leaves around 10gb. So unless FF decides to suddently use up these 10gb right before the freeze happens which I can't really see because I don't know when one of the freezes is going to happen, I highly doubt it.

tomatoshadow2 schrieb

I would be happy to file bugs for anyone, just give me the steps to reproduce.

If it was that easy, I'm sure this problem would have been fixed by now. Open a new tab through the "+" or open a website with scripts enabled by clicking on the tile on the "new tab" page. Either way makes my PC freeze "only" about once a week...

''spywriter007 [[#answer-977317|schrieb]]'' <blockquote> Hi Guys, I am getting the same thing with windows freezing up. I think it has something to do with scripting on certain websites... the scripting causes firefox to slow down... and then eventually stop responding. And rather than the browser crashing... which is preferable to it not responding... the firefox not responding problem then causes windows to lock up. I think different scripts are being used for different ads on a website which is why is why this problem not always replicable. BTW... I am using Adblock Plus and Windows 7 64 bit. </blockquote> How often does it happen for you, when and how long does it take until your PC freezes? Do you use the tiles on the "new tab" page? But yes, that's what I've been thinking too. I'm heavily using the tiles on the "new tab" page and I have Adblock Plus and NoScript installed with scripts enabled for the websites I remember it happening with (Amazon, Youtube and a third). What's weird is that the website didn't even fully load when a freeze happened on my PC. As for a freeze that happens directly after opening a new, empty tab: Like I said, I'm using the tiles, so it's possible that I hovered over one of them on the way to the "+", which made the website get cached in the background including the scripts, which then made FF freeze (I've had a similar thing happen with Malwarebytes). To be honest, that's the best explanation I can think of. I still don't know why it "only" happens about once a week for me though. ''cor-el [[#answer-977606|schrieb]]'' <blockquote> This can possibly be a memory problem where Windows runs out of free memory and start paging data to the page file. </blockquote> I have 16gb of RAM that work properly, Win 7 usually uses less than 5gb (unless I'm playing a game) which leaves around 10gb. So unless FF decides to suddently use up these 10gb right before the freeze happens which I can't really see because I don't know when one of the freezes is going to happen, I highly doubt it. ''tomatoshadow2 [[#answer-977422|schrieb]]'' <blockquote> I would be happy to file bugs for anyone, just give me the steps to reproduce. </blockquote> If it was that easy, I'm sure this problem would have been fixed by now. Open a new tab through the "+" or open a website with scripts enabled by clicking on the tile on the "new tab" page. Either way makes my PC freeze "only" about once a week...

Geändert am von Neph

Fragesteller

Indeed this is NOT a memory problem - at least on my system. What I do see on FF53 is extensive 100% drive read/write.

However, I updated to FF54 a few days ago and other problems occur, which I will post in another thread.

BTW, the freezing of FF53 did not occur again after the cleanup I mentioned above.

It is still not clear if all this is really caused by FF itself, or by it not being handled well by Windows.

Indeed this is NOT a memory problem - at least on my system. What I do see on FF53 is extensive 100% drive read/write. However, I updated to FF54 a few days ago and other problems occur, which I will post in another thread. BTW, the freezing of FF53 did not occur again after the cleanup I mentioned above. '''It is still not clear if all this is really caused by FF itself, or by it not being handled well by Windows.'''

Geändert am von wwwaste