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To, CC and BCC

  • 67 uphendule
  • 13 zinale nkinga
  • 1976 views
  • Igcine ukuphendulwa ngu markrlondon

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I've read a lot of help on this - almost all of them say, "As you have discovered there are three visible TO/Cc/Bcc fields..." and: " type or select email address and press enter to move to next TO field".

None of that works. I have only ONE visible "To" field. It has no controls to change it to a Cc or Bcc one. There is a "CC" or "BCC" option beside the "From" field. Pressing Enter at the end of an address does precisely nothing.

Another copy of TB on another computer has all the features you gaily point to - but mine doesn't. Where do I find it?

I've read a lot of help on this - almost all of them say, "As you have discovered there are three visible TO/Cc/Bcc fields..." and: " type or select email address and press enter to move to next TO field". None of that works. I have only ONE visible "To" field. It has no controls to change it to a Cc or Bcc one. There is a "CC" or "BCC" option '''''beside''''' the "From" field. Pressing Enter at the end of an address does precisely nothing. Another copy of TB on another computer has all the features you gaily point to - but mine doesn't. Where do I find it?

Isisombululo esikhethiwe

Thunderbird 78 has changed compared to Thunderbird 68, that's why you see this discrepancy. In 68, the field name is a dropdown list, and you can change To to CC/BCC. In 78, however, you can add CCs and BCCs by clicking on the text buttons beside the To field.

Funda le mpendulo ngokuhambisana nalesi sihloko 👍 1

All Replies (20)

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Could not agree more! There was nothing wrong with the way it was before. Why change it?????? Change for change sake is a stupid way to operate.

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bobcattexas said

Could not agree more! There was nothing wrong with the way it was before. Why change it?????? Change for change sake is a stupid way to operate.

Nspagforums said

note, just my two cents, BUT REMOVING PRIMIARY VISIBLE BCC lines is NUTSSS !! This is a security issue, in my opinion.

bobcattexas and Nspagforums, please tone it down and be respectful.

And please stop spreading falsehoods: We've never had "primary visible BCC lines", and BCC hasn't been removed in any way, it's actually *more* exposed in the primary UI now than before with a single-click toolbar button, whereas before it was hidden in a dropdown, requiring 2 clicks. Just because it's in a different place doesn't mean it's gone.

Please read the documentation linked in one of my previous comments, where the motivation and benefits of the new implementation are explained in detail. We are not operating stupidly, and we're not changing things just for the sake of change.

In fact, many users have requested these changes (as seen by 16 duplicates for https://bugzil.la/440377 where this was introduced) and they come with substantial efficiency and usability gains. A software which never changes will slowly die. This was a long overdue change, and there's no turning back. I'm not saying it's all perfect; we're in the process of exploring some further polishing improvements but even apparently simple things like adding known keyboard shortcuts for To/CC/BCC (Ctrl+Shift+T/C/B) can turn out much less trivial when you have to shuffle around dozens of other keyboard shortcuts in the process (https://bugzil.la/1667692), and users will start complaining about losing those.

Try changing 100 recipients from CC to BCC in the old UI, and then we talk again! Or even just to delete 100 recipients (slightly easier because I volunteered to fix this before the new UI was rolled out). The old UI was allowing users to create chaos by changing the type of each recipient and having them all mixed up. It's actually *easier* now to see at a glance which recipients will be BCC'ed, and which ones won't, because recipients are now grouped by type. That's a security *gain*. We're also working on a feature to allow users to opt in to having BCC open by default. The truth is, users will only use BCC if they know about it and understand the concept, which is primarily an issue of user education (which the article Addressing an Email provides).

thomas8 said

  • To add more recipients of the same type: Type (and autocomplete) recipient 1, press Enter. Type recipient 2, press Enter. Now you have two recipients of the same type in the same row.
  • If you need CC or BCC, click the disclosure buttons [CC] [BCC] next to From: field, or [>>] to open the input fields for other address types. There are many other ways and useful tricks, please find the full information here:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/new-thunderbird-78#w_new-addressing-area https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/addressing-email (make sure this article has a "Changes to the addressing area in Thunderbird 78" section, otherwise it's outdated). I've linked the authoritative English version which has been updated, as updated localizations may not yet be available, and the first deep link may be different for other languages.
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Is there a way to have the cc and bcc show up below the to when i open a new "write". I cc most emails and don't want to have to hit the cc button to populate the address bar and then address each time. In the old set up it had : To: CC: BCC:

already there when I opened a new "write" message to send. Preferred the old way.

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Yes, stupid change on the part of Mozilla. If they don't fix it in the next week or so I'll go back to using my business email handler.

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"the addressing area has been completely redesigned for Thunderbird 78, it's now much easier, more intuitive, and more efficient than before"

Now it takes 4 keystrokes to do what used to take one. Isn't there a way to leave the CC field open by default?

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niko1 said

Is there a way to have the cc and bcc show up below the to when i open a new "write".

Not yet, but we're trying to implement that in https://bugzil.la/1616514. I've been at the forefront of pointing out the necessity of having that feature.

I cc most emails and don't want to have to hit the cc button to populate the address bar and then address each time. In the old set up it had : To: CC: BCC: already there when I opened a new "write" message to send. Preferred the old way.

That's just not true. Maybe you were using an addon which provided that functionality, or you had auto-cc or auto-bcc set up for your identity with pre-filled addresses, but out of the box, Thunderbird has always ever shown only To:, albeit underlaid with a dropdown selector to change the type of each address. Whilst I appreciate that due to habit formation, we may have come to think that one-address-per-row with type selector is the right and only way of handling addresses, it really isn't and after a short time of exploring especially the keyboard behaviour of the new addressing area you will never want to go back, because the old way has significant UX-efficiency shortcomings. Please refer to the documentation which I pointed out in my previous comments.

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bob197 said

"the addressing area has been completely redesigned for Thunderbird 78, it's now much easier, more intuitive, and more efficient than before" Now it takes 4 keystrokes to do what used to take one. Isn't there a way to leave the CC field open by default?

See my previous comment for the bug where we're working on an opt-in for leaving CC field open.

It's not true that it was just one keystroke in TB 68. TB 68: Shift+Tab, Cursor-down, Tab. That's 3 different keystrokes. TB 78: Shift+Tab (3x), Enter. That's 2 different keystrokes, altogether 4. One more than before, for an action which can occur maximally once per composition.

In return, you can now save dozens of keystrokes when handling multiple recipients, which wasn't even possible before: change type (To/CC/BCC) via context menu, remove, copy/paste, drag n drop all work now on a selection of multiple recipients, and selecting recipients with keyboard is a snap, using well-known selection patterns with Shift and Ctrl. I have documented this in Addressing an Email and New in Thunderbird 78.0.

Admittedly, tabbing backwards to reach CC/BCC feels a bit odd at first, but there are solid design reasons for that and we have implemented this with a lot of thought and balancing. That said, this isn't the end of the road and further improvements are under discussion.

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to thomas8, thanks for reply. and sorry for the frustration level, not trying to be disrespectful.

but to have lost the BCC line stayig visible, by default, is a BIG loss for me, BECAUSE I use this with many emails, due to security issues, and I try to educate other people, who have sent emails to me, who unknowingly sent whole lists of nursing home caretaker addresses, other medical contact addressees, in the TO or CC lines of their programs, and I continually stress the BCC use and its reasons.

I understand the behind the scenes improvements to fix how lists are handled, and i can get used to them, and appreciate your efforts on this (I used to program medical records systems, but have since retired)

again, thanks

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Nspagforums said

to thomas8, thanks for reply. and sorry for the frustration level, not trying to be disrespectful. but to have lost the BCC line staying visible, by default, is a BIG loss for me

Thanks, now we are starting to talk. Can you please share with me how you succeeded to have "the BCC line staying visible, by default", assuming you're talking about starting new compositions with a blank BCC field open, because that has never been a feature of Thunderbird. Which addon did you use to achieve this? Or maybe your admin installed an addon for you which wasn't compatible with the TB 78 update?

As for providing that NEW option in Thunderbird, for the first time, I repeat, the need is understood by involved people like Alex (:aleca) and myself (:thomas8 aka Thomas D.) who have worked on the new addressing area UX together, and we're in the process of doing something about it. Given that this feature has never existed before, and every feature must be carefully planned wrt UX and maintenance burden before the actual implementation (which goes through stages again), please bear with us a little.

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thanks for reply. i went back to my UN-UPDATED computer just now i THOUGHT that BCC and CC lines had an option to turn on. BUT, somewhat wrong. what WAS present was the TO: line then two additional BLANK lines below that one, THEN the subject line (I could have sworn that CC and BCC were options in those lines prior) BUT, what does happen, is if i hit in the second line, the BCC option, then <RTN> to go to next line, the next line automatically becomes BCC. SO, I could keep typing addresses as BCC. so, once it was turned on, i could keep going with BCC.

BUT, with your option fo rMULTIPLE emails addresses on same line, then i guess it is a wash.

but i still cannot verify if BCC did show as default, since my main system did an auto-update, and the older system is slower, i can test it more, and muy third system has dead battery...

see attached. IF the BCC line showed as a default line, in addition to the TO: line, i believe it would be of benefit to get people to be more aware of this. but the PRIOR version DID HAVE two blank lines available, and i still think they came from some option about bcc and cc, but can't prove it  :-)

ADDENDUM - I DO BELIEVE that those THREE LINESA had TO:, CC:, and BCC:, reading hte prior posts, i don't believe that I am going crazy (yet....). My test system just did an auto update, i could not stop it, so now i have no system with the older stuff on it

Okulungisiwe ngu Nspagforums

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I have same problem and nothing suggested alters anything. I do not have the ability to select To, Cc, Bcc from the send area. These items have disappeared. I've wasted an hour already looking at Toolbar options, accounts etc etc. What is wrong with simply having these functions alongside the address field as before?

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The following solution is working on my system and thunderbird 78.4.1 (64-bit): - If you need a "cc" or "bcc"field you have to to add it with te buttons right rear the "from"-field. (You can use the "to", the "cc" or the "bcc" field in the same way for the following hints) - Enter the adress" by typing the full adress or type some characters and choose from the automatic-adress-book-drop-down-list - Now press "enter". (Do not add a comma or a semicolon)(The cursor will stay in the same line)(The background of the adress typed before has changed, on my system with light grey. (adress and alias)) - Enter the next adress as before and press enter again. - An so on ...

This solution works, at least on my system. But the old solution with a single field for every recipient was more easy to handle and understand, yes more self-explaining, as the new version. At least a short help should be added near the new CC and bcc buttons to prevent confusion or errors out of my view if the new version will stay.

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for location of the CC and BCC, see the attached image, this is what I see. When i click either the CC or BCC, I get additional line to add such addresses.

re: Elmkir's response - I am also now seeing how the multiple addresses work, on a single line. AND, I am able to edit/remove/add addresses, to that line. I can live with the SINGLE line of addresses, grouped as either the TO:, or CC:, or BCC:, it is actually working well

i stil would like to see an EVER-PRESENT BCC: line, in addition to the TO: line, but the address mechanism of havint the addresses grouped in a single line does seem reliable

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Is there a way to do this with keyboard only? It's very inconvenient to have to use the mouse. Totally disrupts my flow

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tuluse said

Is there a way to do this with keyboard only? It's very inconvenient to have to use the mouse. Totally disrupts my flow

I've linked documentation in one of my previous comments. I understand your question is how to open CC and BCC lines with keyboard.

(With focus anywhere in To:) CC: Shift+Tab (3x), press Enter -> CC row opens with cursor, ready for input BCC: Shift+Tab (2x), press Enter -> BCC row opens with cursor, ready for input

Alternatively, you could create an address in to, select that with cursor left, press context menu key on a windows keyboard, and press the localized access key for CC or BCC.

We're exploring ways of making opening CC and BCC fields even easier, e.g. with keyboard shortcuts. Non-trivial because most keyboard shortcuts are already taken or reserved for important future uses.

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"Alternatively, you could create an address in to, select that with cursor left, press context menu key on a windows keyboard, and press the localized access key for CC or BCC"

Better yet, alternatively, you could put the set up back the way it was before it was screwed up. Seems the simplest and most logical solution to this issue.

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Bobcattexas, i too miss the old interface, but i do see the advantages and the ease of use of using all the TO" addresses on one line, and all the CC: addresses on one line, and teh BCC: all on one line. the addresses within those lines are actually easy to manipulate.

I belieev that if the ADDITIONAL lines of the CC:, and BCC" were added, and keep the addresses operation under the new format, i think it would be the best of both worlds.

anyway, just my humble two cents !

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How is this issue going to be remedied?

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"Shift+Tab (3x), press Enter -> CC row opens with cursor, ready for input"

I do hope you understand how ridiculous such "keyboard shortcuts" are for average user. They can understand "Ctrl-C" or something but nothing more complicated than that. Anyway, that's beside the point, as many of those don't even use keyboard shortcuts. Mostly just saying even I wouldn't bother with that.

I would suggest you add a possibility to select in view menu (or settings, or whatever else) to "Show CC field" and "Show BCC field" for those who want and use them constantly. Many other mail clients have such options available as they all want to go for the minimal look so the default option is to hide everything.

All in all the new recipient field system seems definitely a step forward, but were it possible to choose the fields you need active it would actually be even better.

And no, there's no reason to downplay this: it's not just one or two people that have a problem with this. MANY users use one or the other very often and requiring them to click to open them every single time makes no sense to anyone. The default could be what it is now, and those that want to could just open the ones they need and everyone would be happy.

Okulungisiwe ngu ari7

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to all, QUESTION in general

IF the TO: field allows multiple recipients, IS A CC: field actually needed? after all, if you USE CC:, the TO: recipients SEE the CC: recipients anyway.

SO, you wuold just need the TO: field, AND the BCC: field, present at all times, ??

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