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TBird is taking 30 seconds or so to 'delete' an email. The 'revolving dot' appears and Windows reports that Tbird is 'not responding' How to fix?

JMW
Kuphostiwe

I think the question says it all.

I think the question says it all.

Eminye Imininingwane Yohlelo

Isisebenziso

  • I-ejenti Engumsebenzisi: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0

Eminye Imininingwane

christ1
  • Top 25 Contributor
2171 izisombululo 15887 izimpendulo
Kuphostiwe

What is your anti-virus software?

What is your anti-virus software?

Umnikazi wombuzo

AVG Internet Security fully up-to-date. The delay doesn't always occur, but very often.

AVG Internet Security fully up-to-date. The delay doesn't always occur, but very often.
christ1
  • Top 25 Contributor
2171 izisombululo 15887 izimpendulo
Kuphostiwe

Try to start Windows in safe mode with networking enabled. - Win10 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12376/windows-10-start-your-pc-in-safe-mode

Still in Windows safe mode, start Thunderbird in safe mode. - https://support.mozilla.org/kb/safe-mode

Does the problem go away?

Also see https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing:Antivirus_Related_Performance_Issues#AVG

Try to start Windows in safe mode with networking enabled. - Win10 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12376/windows-10-start-your-pc-in-safe-mode Still in Windows safe mode, start Thunderbird in safe mode. - https://support.mozilla.org/kb/safe-mode Does the problem go away? Also see https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing:Antivirus_Related_Performance_Issues#AVG

Okulungisiwe ngu christ1

Umnikazi wombuzo

The problem doesn't go away. Also, sometimes when it happens, TBird revives, but changes the settings for its message display, with all the 'flagging' columns and 'Correspondent' enabled, which I do not need.

The problem doesn't go away. Also, sometimes when it happens, TBird revives, but changes the settings for its message display, with all the 'flagging' columns and 'Correspondent' enabled, which I do not need.
christ1
  • Top 25 Contributor
2171 izisombululo 15887 izimpendulo
Kuphostiwe

Can you confirm you did start Windows in safe mode?

Can you confirm you did start '''Windows''' in safe mode?

Umnikazi wombuzo

I gave up on that, because Microsoft seem to have moved the goalposts for Safe Mode with Networking (Option 5). It doesn't in fact enable networking, so of course I couldn't actually receive any email to see if deleting it caused a freeze. I tried again, using Option 8 (Disable early...), and on a very limited trial, there was no freeze, but I don't want to leave the computer open to malware for very long.

I notice that the freeze mostly occurs when deleting the last remaining email from the inbox, which suggests a TBird issue, not AVG. I couldn't find any information on the AVG site about fixing the issue, so I've asked on the community support.

I gave up on that, because Microsoft seem to have moved the goalposts for Safe Mode with Networking (Option 5). It doesn't in fact enable networking, so of course I couldn't actually receive any email to see if deleting it caused a freeze. I tried again, using Option 8 (Disable early...), and on a very limited trial, there was no freeze, but I don't want to leave the computer open to malware for very long. I notice that the freeze mostly occurs when deleting the last remaining email from the inbox, which suggests a TBird issue, not AVG. I couldn't find any information on the AVG site about fixing the issue, so I've asked on the community support.
christ1
  • Top 25 Contributor
2171 izisombululo 15887 izimpendulo
Kuphostiwe

If you use a WLAN, you may not have Networking in safe mode. Use a wired network connection instead.

If you use a WLAN, you may not have Networking in safe mode. Use a wired network connection instead.

Umnikazi wombuzo

I used Option 8 instead of Option 5. But the results were not absloutely conclusive. I am now trying to negotiate with AVG on the issue.

I used Option 8 instead of Option 5. But the results were not absloutely conclusive. I am now trying to negotiate with AVG on the issue.

Umnikazi wombuzo

I applied the fix that AVG advised (after negotiation) but it does not solve the problem. I still get freezing, mostly when deleting an email but occasionally at other times. How can I reinstall (if that's a possible fix) without losing my stored emails?

I applied the fix that AVG advised (after negotiation) but it does not solve the problem. I still get freezing, mostly when deleting an email but occasionally at other times. How can I reinstall (if that's a possible fix) without losing my stored emails?
christ1
  • Top 25 Contributor
2171 izisombululo 15887 izimpendulo
Kuphostiwe
I applied the fix that AVG advised (after negotiation) but it does not solve the problem.

Please follow the instructions as per https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1182001#answer-1022198

How can I reinstall (if that's a possible fix) without losing my stored emails?

It's possible, but you'd be wasting your time. You can re-install Thunderbird as many times as you want, it won't change a thing. The problem is in your Thunderbird profile. Profile files are stored separately from the Thunderbird program files. The program files are static and do not change (except when you upgrade the Thunderbird application version). Because we store profile and program files separately, you can uninstall Thunderbird without losing your messages and settings, and if something goes wrong with a Thunderbird update your information will still be available. It also means that you don't have to reinstall Thunderbird in order to delete your information or troubleshoot a problem.

<blockquote> I applied the fix that AVG advised (after negotiation) but it does not solve the problem. </blockquote> Please follow the instructions as per https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1182001#answer-1022198 <blockquote> How can I reinstall (if that's a possible fix) without losing my stored emails? </blockquote> It's possible, but you'd be wasting your time. You can re-install Thunderbird as many times as you want, it won't change a thing. The problem is in your Thunderbird profile. Profile files are stored separately from the Thunderbird program files. The program files are static and do not change (except when you upgrade the Thunderbird application version). Because we store profile and program files separately, you can uninstall Thunderbird without losing your messages and settings, and if something goes wrong with a Thunderbird update your information will still be available. It also means that you don't have to reinstall Thunderbird in order to delete your information or troubleshoot a problem.

Umnikazi wombuzo

Ok, re-install doesn't look promising. I don't understand your URL reference, If you mean about starting in Safe Mode, I did that, but using Option 8 instead of Option 5. Are you saying that it is essential to use Option 5? It is difficult for me to make a wired connection between computer and router.

If the problem is in the Profile, will you please explain a bit more how I might correct it? Thunderbird has started to freeze on other occasions than when deleting an message.

Ok, re-install doesn't look promising. I don't understand your URL reference, If you mean about starting in Safe Mode, I did that, but using Option 8 instead of Option 5. Are you saying that it is essential to use Option 5? It is difficult for me to make a wired connection between computer and router. If the problem is in the Profile, will you please explain a bit more how I might correct it? Thunderbird has started to freeze on other occasions than when deleting an message.
christ1
  • Top 25 Contributor
2171 izisombululo 15887 izimpendulo
Kuphostiwe
Are you saying that it is essential to use Option 5?

If Option 5 is 'safe mode with networking enabled', then that's what I meant.

It is difficult for me to make a wired connection between computer and router.

You may not have a choice. Windows safe mode disables anti-virus software. So starting Windows in safe mode is to determine whether the problem still occurs without anti-virus. Anti-virus software is most likely the culprit, as it prevents Thunderbird accessing the mail files in your profile upon scanning them.

Beyond that there are some general guidelines to avoid problems with anti-virus software.

Create an exception in your anti-virus software for the Thunderbird profile folder, so that the anti-virus real-time scanner will not scan it. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Profile_folder_-_Thunderbird

Don't let your anti-virus software scan incoming and outgoing messages.

Don't let your anti-virus software scan attachments.

Don't let your anti-virus software intercept your secure connection to the server.

Remove any add-ons your anti-virus software may have installed in Thunderbird.

Keep it working. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Keep_it_working_-_Thunderbird

And last but not least, backup your Thunderbird profile on a regular basis. https://support.mozilla.org/kb/profiles-where-thunderbird-stores-user-data#w_backing-up-a-profile

<blockquote> Are you saying that it is essential to use Option 5? </blockquote> If Option 5 is 'safe mode with networking enabled', then that's what I meant. <blockquote> It is difficult for me to make a wired connection between computer and router. </blockquote> You may not have a choice. Windows safe mode disables anti-virus software. So starting Windows in safe mode is to determine whether the problem still occurs without anti-virus. Anti-virus software is most likely the culprit, as it prevents Thunderbird accessing the mail files in your profile upon scanning them. Beyond that there are some general guidelines to avoid problems with anti-virus software. Create an exception in your anti-virus software for the Thunderbird profile folder, so that the anti-virus real-time scanner will not scan it. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Profile_folder_-_Thunderbird Don't let your anti-virus software scan incoming and outgoing messages. Don't let your anti-virus software scan attachments. Don't let your anti-virus software intercept your secure connection to the server. Remove any add-ons your anti-virus software may have installed in Thunderbird. Keep it working. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Keep_it_working_-_Thunderbird And last but not least, backup your Thunderbird profile on a regular basis. https://support.mozilla.org/kb/profiles-where-thunderbird-stores-user-data#w_backing-up-a-profile

Umnikazi wombuzo

Since Safe Mode disables the AV,so it shouldn't matter if Option 8 is chosen rather than Option 5 with a wired connection. However, I made the wired connection. I made an exception for the Profile. I disabled scanning of outgoing messages, but I don't think it's safe not to scan incoming messages and I don't see why that action should affect deletion anyway.

I've looked at Keep it working and I'm using ImportExportTolls to back up the profile every 3 days. Whether that will fix the problem remains to be seen.

I am grateful for your continued advise.

Since Safe Mode disables the AV,so it shouldn't matter if Option 8 is chosen rather than Option 5 with a wired connection. However, I made the wired connection. I made an exception for the Profile. I disabled scanning of outgoing messages, but I don't think it's safe not to scan incoming messages and I don't see why that action should affect deletion anyway. I've looked at Keep it working and I'm using ImportExportTolls to back up the profile every 3 days. Whether that will fix the problem remains to be seen. I am grateful for your continued advise.

Umnikazi wombuzo

I found that freezing still happens. It seems to happen if I delete a message and then delete another one less than some time interval, which might be 60 seconds, later. I can try to be more patient, but the effect should not, I think, be tolerated.

I found that freezing still happens. It seems to happen if I delete a message and then delete another one less than some time interval, which might be 60 seconds, later. I can try to be more patient, but the effect should not, I think, be tolerated.
christ1
  • Top 25 Contributor
2171 izisombululo 15887 izimpendulo
Kuphostiwe
Since Safe Mode disables the AV,so it shouldn't matter if Option 8 is chosen rather than Option 5 with a wired connection.

I'm not repeating myself about which option to use. But I'd be curious what the result was for Windows safe mode with networking enabled, and a wired connection.

I don't think it's safe not to scan incoming messages

I don't know why you think it's unsafe. This point has been brought up numerous times in this forum. I'll leave it up to you to do your own investigation about why you may be wrong with this.

I'm using ImportExportTolls to back up the profile every 3 days.

The extension wouldn't backup the entire profile, which is what's recommended. https://support.mozilla.org/kb/profiles-where-thunderbird-stores-user-data#w_backing-up-a-profile

<blockquote> Since Safe Mode disables the AV,so it shouldn't matter if Option 8 is chosen rather than Option 5 with a wired connection. </blockquote> I'm not repeating myself about which option to use. But I'd be curious what the result was for Windows safe mode with networking enabled, and a wired connection. <blockquote> I don't think it's safe not to scan incoming messages </blockquote> I don't know why you think it's unsafe. This point has been brought up numerous times in this forum. I'll leave it up to you to do your own investigation about why you may be wrong with this. <blockquote> I'm using ImportExportTolls to back up the profile every 3 days. </blockquote> The extension wouldn't backup the entire profile, which is what's recommended. https://support.mozilla.org/kb/profiles-where-thunderbird-stores-user-data#w_backing-up-a-profile

Umnikazi wombuzo

As far as I can tell, Windows safe mode with either Option 5 or Option 8 produces the same result, but an exhaustive test would take years.

All AV apps seem to scan incoming email by default. I suppose that wouldn't be so unless the AV writers think it's necessary.

ImportExportTools is recommended in one of ths links you gave me: Keep it working. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Keep_it_working_-_Thunderbird

I can confirm that waiting about 10 seconds after deleting a message before deleting another one seems to prevent freezing. I wonder if that's just for me or whether others find that deleting a second message very soon after a first deletion causes freezing.

As far as I can tell, Windows safe mode with either Option 5 or Option 8 produces the same result, but an exhaustive test would take years. All AV apps seem to scan incoming email by default. I suppose that wouldn't be so unless the AV writers think it's necessary. ImportExportTools is recommended in one of ths links you gave me: Keep it working. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Keep_it_working_-_Thunderbird I can confirm that waiting about 10 seconds after deleting a message before deleting another one seems to prevent freezing. I wonder if that's just for me or whether others find that deleting a second message very soon after a first deletion causes freezing.
christ1
  • Top 25 Contributor
2171 izisombululo 15887 izimpendulo
Kuphostiwe
As far as I can tell, Windows safe mode with either Option 5 or Option 8 produces the same result,

And what is the result?

All AV apps seem to scan incoming email by default. I suppose that wouldn't be so unless the AV writers think it's necessary.

You hit the nail on the head. The AV writers think it's necessary, because it's their business. And most people believe them.

ImportExportTools is recommended in one of ths links you gave me:

I didn't know ImportExportTools can now also backup the entire profile. I haven't tried that, and I'd still recommend the simple method of just copying the profile folder.

I can confirm that waiting about 10 seconds after deleting a message before deleting another one seems to prevent freezing.

Is this in Windows safe mode+Thunderbird safe mode, or Windows+Thunderbird normal mode?

<blockquote> As far as I can tell, Windows safe mode with either Option 5 or Option 8 produces the same result, </blockquote> And what is the result? <blockquote> All AV apps seem to scan incoming email by default. I suppose that wouldn't be so unless the AV writers think it's necessary. </blockquote> You hit the nail on the head. '''The AV writers''' think it's necessary, because it's their business. And most people believe them. <blockquote> ImportExportTools is recommended in one of ths links you gave me: </blockquote> I didn't know ImportExportTools can now also backup the entire profile. I haven't tried that, and I'd still recommend the simple method of just copying the profile folder. <blockquote> I can confirm that waiting about 10 seconds after deleting a message before deleting another one seems to prevent freezing. </blockquote> Is this in Windows safe mode+Thunderbird safe mode, or Windows+Thunderbird normal mode?

Umnikazi wombuzo

I didn't see any freezes in Safe Mode, but they are intermittent, so the outcome is uncertain. My report that delaying deletion seems to prevent freezing refers to Windows normal mode and Tbird normal mode. We haven't mentioned Tbird Safe Mode before.

For me, the problem isn't solved; delaying deletion is a work-around, so I hope the developers will look at this issue in due course (i.e. within the next 10 microseconds).

I didn't see any freezes in Safe Mode, but they are intermittent, so the outcome is uncertain. My report that delaying deletion seems to prevent freezing refers to Windows normal mode and Tbird normal mode. We haven't mentioned Tbird Safe Mode before. For me, the problem isn't solved; delaying deletion is a work-around, so I hope the developers will look at this issue in due course (i.e. within the next 10 microseconds).
christ1
  • Top 25 Contributor
2171 izisombululo 15887 izimpendulo
Kuphostiwe
I didn't see any freezes in Safe Mode,

Good. This supports the theory that anti-virus is the culprit.

but they are intermittent

You do not seem to have much difficulties to reproduce the freeze in normal mode.

We haven't mentioned Tbird Safe Mode before.

We have. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1182001#answer-1022198

For me, the problem isn't solved; delaying deletion is a work-around, so I hope the developers will look at this issue

So far there isn't really any evidence that Thunderbird is causing the problem. I'd suggest you contact AVG.

Also see https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing:Antivirus_Related_Performance_Issues

Beyond that, there isn't anything else I can suggest.

<blockquote> I didn't see any freezes in Safe Mode, </blockquote> Good. This supports the theory that anti-virus is the culprit. <blockquote> but they are intermittent </blockquote> You do not seem to have much difficulties to reproduce the freeze in normal mode. <blockquote> We haven't mentioned Tbird Safe Mode before. </blockquote> We have. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1182001#answer-1022198 <blockquote> For me, the problem isn't solved; delaying deletion is a work-around, so I hope the developers will look at this issue </blockquote> So far there isn't really any evidence that Thunderbird is causing the problem. I'd suggest you contact AVG. Also see https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing:Antivirus_Related_Performance_Issues Beyond that, there isn't anything else I can suggest.

Umnikazi wombuzo

I have contacted AVG and done all that they advised. I'm sure I reported that. I said we hadn't *discussed* Tbird safe mode; yes it's mentioned in that URL, but not in connetcion with AVG, about which it says: AVG AVG can not scan SSL connections and requires you to set it up as a proxy and place the mail settings in AVG and pointers to the proxy in Thunderbird. AVG offers instructions here JMW:In fact, the link goes to AVG's support front page, not instructions. I suspect that the words about SSL and proxy refer to an older version of the AVG software.

AVG causes intermittent Not Responding in Windows 10.[36] JMW: As you know, that thread reports freezing also when using Windows Defender, as well as AVG.

I understand that you can't give further advice. I am grateful for what you have sent. But for me, the issue is not closed; the Tbird developers need to look at it.

I have contacted AVG and done all that they advised. I'm sure I reported that. I said we hadn't *discussed* Tbird safe mode; yes it's mentioned in that URL, but not in connetcion with AVG, about which it says: AVG AVG can not scan SSL connections and requires you to set it up as a proxy and place the mail settings in AVG and pointers to the proxy in Thunderbird. AVG offers instructions here JMW:In fact, the link goes to AVG's support front page, not instructions. I suspect that the words about SSL and proxy refer to an older version of the AVG software. AVG causes intermittent Not Responding in Windows 10.[36] JMW: As you know, that thread reports freezing also when using Windows Defender, as well as AVG. I understand that you can't give further advice. I am grateful for what you have sent. But for me, the issue is not closed; the Tbird developers need to look at it.