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Could you PLEASE make "Tabs on Bottom" the default -- or at least an option in preferences?

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(using FireFox 65 on macOS)

Tabs on top of the window make no sense to me, nor thousands of others. They started out on the bottom. And that's where we got used to them.

Yes there is the userchrome.css file but that is ENORMOUSLY CUMBERSOME, perhaps impossible for non-technical users (who don't know how to use a text editor, even if they could find the "chrome" folder) and the required code seems to CHANGE WITH EVERY NEW RELEASE.

FireFox has tons of preferences and addons for things that I have no use for, but nothing for something as simple as the ability to locate the TAB bar.

If you do it, I'll gladly donate to Mozilla.

Thanks,

Mark

(using FireFox 65 on macOS) Tabs on top of the window make no sense to me, nor thousands of others. They started out on the bottom. And that's where we got used to them. Yes there is the userchrome.css file but that is ENORMOUSLY CUMBERSOME, perhaps impossible for non-technical users (who don't know how to use a text editor, even if they could find the "chrome" folder) and the required code seems to CHANGE WITH EVERY NEW RELEASE. FireFox has tons of preferences and addons for things that I have no use for, but nothing for something as simple as the ability to locate the TAB bar. If you do it, I'll gladly donate to Mozilla. Thanks, Mark
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  • User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:65.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/65.0

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jscher2000
  • Top 10 Contributor
8505 個解決方法 69466 個答案

Hi Mark, Tabs on Top became the default in Firefox 4 (March 2011) and the built-in preference to switch it back was removed in Firefox 29. I'm pretty sure it's not coming back after all these years.

I appreciate that the userChrome.css approach takes some time to set up, and that Firefox 65 changed how the top part of the toolbar area was structured, so the CSS that worked in Firefox 57-64 stopped working. Fortunately, Aris updated the "classic css" files for Firefox 65.

Here in support we work with the Firefox we have today and can suggest relevant features, available settings changes, and workarounds such as add-ons. Beyond that, you can submit comments and suggestions through one or more of the following links:

Hi Mark, Tabs on Top became the default in Firefox 4 (March 2011) and the built-in preference to switch it back was removed in Firefox 29. I'm pretty sure it's not coming back after all these years. I appreciate that the userChrome.css approach takes some time to set up, and that Firefox 65 changed how the top part of the toolbar area was structured, so the CSS that worked in Firefox 57-64 stopped working. Fortunately, Aris updated the "classic css" files for Firefox 65. Here in support we work with the Firefox we have today and can suggest relevant features, available settings changes, and workarounds such as add-ons. Beyond that, you can submit comments and suggestions through one or more of the following links: * Feedback: https://qsurvey.mozilla.com/s3/FirefoxInput/ * Discourse: https://discourse.mozilla.org/c/firefox-development * Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/ * Twitter: https://twitter.com/firefox * Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Firefox
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My impression is that Tabs on Bottom option was removed for arbitrary stylistic reasons, not because providing for it was technically unfeasible. And that situation is not going to changed.

This statement:

"Fortunately, Aris updated the "classic css" files for Firefox 65."

would have been helpful with some context. I looked up Aris, who evidently wrote the "Classic Theme Restorer."

Where do you find the "classic css" files for Firefox 65?

I'm not sure what your point is in giving me 5 links for comments and suggestions after you have strongly suggested that what I'm asking for is "not coming back after all these years" and that you are not going to be bothered, as a "support" person, with passing my concerns along to the anonymous people who call the shots.

I'd rather not waste my time.

Aris's own comments (and that of many others) about Firefox indicate that whoever makes the decisions about direction the browser takes are essentially "Our Way Or The Highway," i.e., a waste of his time to try to influence.

That's just weird, but I'm not going to fight it. Nor am I going to support it.

My impression is that Tabs on Bottom option was removed for arbitrary stylistic reasons, not because providing for it was technically unfeasible. And that situation is not going to changed. This statement: "Fortunately, Aris updated the "classic css" files for Firefox 65." would have been helpful with some context. I looked up Aris, who evidently wrote the "Classic Theme Restorer." Where do you find the "classic css" files for Firefox 65? I'm not sure what your point is in giving me 5 links for comments and suggestions after you have strongly suggested that what I'm asking for is "not coming back after all these years" and that you are not going to be bothered, as a "support" person, with passing my concerns along to the anonymous people who call the shots. I'd rather not waste my time. Aris's own comments (and that of many others) about Firefox indicate that whoever makes the decisions about direction the browser takes are essentially "Our Way Or The Highway," i.e., a waste of his time to try to influence. That's just weird, but I'm not going to fight it. Nor am I going to support it.
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resucami2 0 個解決方法 9 個答案

I agree with the original poster. There is no intelligent reason to force Firefox users to have tabs on top.

In my not at all humble opinion it is nothing but an expression of the arrogance of the Firefox makers to eliminate the option to have the tabs back on the bottom. Why am I saying this? Because Firefox 65 and 66 still work without problems when the tabs are being put back to the bottom with a userChrome.css file (which, as the original poster rightly remarked, is almost impossible to do for most people). There is no technical need to disable the option to have the tabs at the bottom - it is just the arrogant presumption to know better than users what is good for users.

It is another (not at all humble) opinion of mine that this arrogance is one of the reasons why Firefox is loosing the battle against Chrome big time. A true shame for the one and only browser that is made from the people for the people.

I agree with the original poster. There is no intelligent reason to force Firefox users to have tabs on top. In my not at all humble opinion it is nothing but an expression of the arrogance of the Firefox makers to eliminate the option to have the tabs back on the bottom. Why am I saying this? Because Firefox 65 and 66 still work without problems when the tabs are being put back to the bottom with a userChrome.css file (which, as the original poster rightly remarked, is almost impossible to do for most people). There is no technical need to disable the option to have the tabs at the bottom - it is just the arrogant presumption to know better than users what is good for users. It is another (not at all humble) opinion of mine that this arrogance is one of the reasons why Firefox is loosing the battle against Chrome big time. A true shame for the one and only browser that is made from the people for the people.

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jscher2000
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8505 個解決方法 69466 個答案

markbot said

Where do you find the "classic css" files for Firefox 65?

I have a link here: https://www.userchrome.org/what-is-userchrome-css.html#movetabbar


For anyone looking for how to implement that:

If you already have a userChrome.css file:

Start with step (C) below. Then add the new rules in the downloaded file to the end of the rules in your existing userChrome.css file.

If you have never set up a userChrome.css file:

Allow about 10 minutes for this:

(A) Create a new chrome folder in your profile folder

The following article has the detailed steps for that (#1, #2, and I recommend #3)

https://www.userchrome.org/how-create-userchrome-css.html

I also created videos for both Windows and Mac, on that same page.

(B) Set your OS to show file extensions

See Step #4 in the above article.

(C) Download the following file and move it into your new chrome folder

Firefox 65+ (Windows): https://www.userchrome.org/samples/userChrome-tabs_on_bottom_Fx65.css

Firefox 65+ (Mac): See: Custom CSS tweaks for Firefox Quantum

Firefox 57-64 (Windows and Mac): https://www.userchrome.org/samples/userChrome-tabs_on_bottom.css

(D) Rename the file to just userChrome.css

Windows: You can right-click the file, then Rename, then remove the -tabs_on_bottom or -tabs_on_bottom_Fx65 part from the file name so you end up with exactly userChrome.css and then click away to complete the edit.

Mac: To make the name of a file editable, you can select the file in Finder and press Return, or you can "force-click" it if you have one of the new touchpads. Remove the -tabs_on_bottom part from the file name so you end up with exactly userChrome.css and then click away to complete the edit.

The next time you exit Firefox and start it up again, it should discover that file and apply the rules.

''markbot [[#answer-1206969|said]]'' <blockquote> Where do you find the "classic css" files for Firefox 65? </blockquote> I have a link here: https://www.userchrome.org/what-is-userchrome-css.html#movetabbar ---- '''''For anyone looking for how to implement that:''''' ''If you already have a userChrome.css file:'' Start with step (C) below. Then add the new rules in the downloaded file to the end of the rules in your existing userChrome.css file. ''If you have never set up a userChrome.css file:'' Allow about 10 minutes for this: '''(A) Create a new '''chrome''' folder in your profile folder''' The following article has the detailed steps for that (#1, #2, and I recommend #3) https://www.userchrome.org/how-create-userchrome-css.html ''I also created videos for both Windows and Mac, on that same page.'' '''(B) Set your OS to show file extensions''' See Step #4 in the above article. '''(C) Download the following file and move it into your new '''chrome''' folder''' ''Firefox 65+ (Windows):'' https://www.userchrome.org/samples/userChrome-tabs_on_bottom_Fx65.css ''Firefox 65+ (Mac):'' See: [https://github.com/Aris-t2/CustomCSSforFx/ Custom CSS tweaks for Firefox Quantum] ''Firefox 57-64 (Windows and Mac):'' https://www.userchrome.org/samples/userChrome-tabs_on_bottom.css '''(D) Rename the file to just '''userChrome.css ''Windows:'' You can right-click the file, then Rename, then remove the <code>-tabs_on_bottom</code> or <code>-tabs_on_bottom_Fx65</code> part from the file name so you end up with exactly userChrome.css and then click away to complete the edit. ''Mac:'' To make the name of a file editable, you can select the file in Finder and press Return, or you can "force-click" it if you have one of the new touchpads. Remove the <code>-tabs_on_bottom</code> part from the file name so you end up with exactly userChrome.css and then click away to complete the edit. The next time you exit Firefox and start it up again, it should discover that file and apply the rules.

由 jscher2000 於 修改

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I'm sorry jscher2000 but the link you sent me isn't at all helpful with respect to my specific problem.

I have been using Firefox for at least 15 years. I'm part of what you could call the "installed base" of long-term customers.

Yesterday I received an unsolicited email from Firefox: "Save your faves with Pocket from Firefox." This exemplifies everything wrong with Firefox development.

I do not need, did not ask for, and will not likely use Pocket. It is just extra bulk in Firefox and whatever problem it is designed to solve, I've already solved in my own way of using the browser.

On the other hand, what I do need Firefox will not provide.

Mozilla/Firefox has lost its way and for the first time ever, I am considering simply using Safari. If I do switch over, I'll not be using any Mozilla/Firefox products again.

Therefore, I ask you for the email addresses of the following people at Mozilla, in the slim hope that I can talk some sense in to them:

Mark Mayo Chief Product Officer Chris Beard CEO Dave Camp VP of Engineering: Firefox

Thank you and best wishes,

Mark

I'm sorry jscher2000 but the link you sent me isn't at all helpful with respect to my specific problem. I have been using Firefox for at least 15 years. I'm part of what you could call the "installed base" of long-term customers. Yesterday I received an unsolicited email from Firefox: "Save your faves with Pocket from Firefox." This exemplifies everything wrong with Firefox development. I do not need, did not ask for, and will not likely use Pocket. It is just extra bulk in Firefox and whatever problem it is designed to solve, I've already solved in my own way of using the browser. On the other hand, what I do need Firefox will not provide. Mozilla/Firefox has lost its way and for the first time ever, I am considering simply using Safari. If I do switch over, I'll not be using any Mozilla/Firefox products again. Therefore, I ask you for the email addresses of the following people at Mozilla, in the slim hope that I can talk some sense in to them: Mark Mayo Chief Product Officer Chris Beard CEO Dave Camp VP of Engineering: Firefox Thank you and best wishes, Mark
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jscher2000
  • Top 10 Contributor
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Hi Mark, I don't have those email addresses.

If you don't use mobile devices, and you're happy with bookmarks, then you probably don't have a good use case for saving pages in Pocket. However, Pocket is part of Mozilla's strategy for serving multi-device users and even if you never create a Pocket login, you May receive insight on pages that may be of interest to you, based on what other people are saving in Pocket, through the Recommended by Pocket section of the new tab page. I don't think you're going to talk Mozilla out of Pocket integration; they bought the company.

Hi Mark, I don't have those email addresses. If you don't use mobile devices, and you're happy with bookmarks, then you probably don't have a good use case for saving pages in Pocket. However, Pocket is part of Mozilla's strategy for serving multi-device users and even if you never create a Pocket login, you May receive insight on pages that may be of interest to you, based on what other people are saving in Pocket, through the Recommended by Pocket section of the new tab page. I don't think you're going to talk Mozilla out of Pocket integration; they bought the company.
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cor-el
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17267 個解決方法 156072 個答案

See this thread for updated userChrome.css code for Firefox 65 to move the tabs to the bottom position.

For Mac you may have to add this code for the caption buttons.

.titlebar-buttonbox-container {
  position: fixed !important;
  top:0 !important; left:0 !important; /*Mac: Left*/
  /*right: 0 !important;  /*Windows: Right*/
  visibility: visible !important;
  display: block !important;
}

You can use the TextEdit utility to create the userChrome.css file as a plain text file.

It is not that difficult to create userChrome.css if you have never used it.

The first step is to open the "Help -> Troubleshooting Information" page and find the button to access the profile folder.

You can find this button under the "Application Basics" section as "Profile Folder -> Open Folder". If you click this button then you open the profile folder in the Windows File Explorer. You need to create a folder with the name chrome in this folder (name is all lowercase). In the chrome folder you need to create a text file with the name userChrome.css (name is case sensitive). In this userChrome.css text file you paste the text posted.

You need to close (Quit/Exit) and restart Firefox when you create or modify the userChrome.css file.

See this thread for updated userChrome.css code for Firefox 65 to move the tabs to the bottom position. *[[/questions/1248277]] Reposition Tabs at bottom, directly above web page in Firefox 65.0? For Mac you may have to add this code for the caption buttons. <pre><nowiki>.titlebar-buttonbox-container { position: fixed !important; top:0 !important; left:0 !important; /*Mac: Left*/ /*right: 0 !important; /*Windows: Right*/ visibility: visible !important; display: block !important; }</nowiki></pre> ----- You can use the TextEdit utility to create the userChrome.css file as a plain text file. It is not that difficult to create userChrome.css if you have never used it. The first step is to open the "Help -> Troubleshooting Information" page and find the button to access the profile folder. *https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/use-troubleshooting-information-page-fix-firefox You can find this button under the "Application Basics" section as "Profile Folder -> Open Folder". If you click this button then you open the profile folder in the Windows File Explorer. You need to create a folder with the name <u>chrome</u> in this folder (name is all lowercase). In the <b>chrome</b> folder you need to create a text file with the name <u>userChrome.css</u> (name is case sensitive). In this userChrome.css text file you paste the text posted. You need to close (Quit/Exit) and restart Firefox when you create or modify the userChrome.css file.

由 cor-el 於 修改

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"I don't think you're going to talk Mozilla out of Pocket integration; they bought the company."

Oh dear.

I guess I'm not surprised. Somebody cruising comfortably at 40,000 feet, devising grand marketing strategies for expensive acquisitions like "Pocket" isn't going to be concerned with annoyances down here on Planet Earth like "Tabs on Bottom."

Too bad.

There's a reason "Classic Theme Restorer" was so popular, but that obviously carries no weight with a marketing whiz up there in the stratosphere.

Eh, too bad.

"I don't think you're going to talk Mozilla out of Pocket integration; they bought the company." Oh dear. I guess I'm not surprised. Somebody cruising comfortably at 40,000 feet, devising grand marketing strategies for expensive acquisitions like "Pocket" isn't going to be concerned with annoyances down here on Planet Earth like "Tabs on Bottom." Too bad. There's a reason "Classic Theme Restorer" was so popular, but that obviously carries no weight with a marketing whiz up there in the stratosphere. Eh, too bad.
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Dear cor-el,

Thanks for the code -- I'll give it a try.
I should have made it clear from the get-go that I have not trouble at all modifying my userChrome.css file. (Which I do in BBEdit.)

I'm looking to cut-and-paste code, not master the CSS syntax.

I hope your instructions can help another person.

-Mark

Dear cor-el, Thanks for the code -- I'll give it a try. I should have made it clear from the get-go that I have not trouble at all modifying my userChrome.css file. (Which I do in BBEdit.) I'm looking to cut-and-paste code, not master the CSS syntax. I hope your instructions can help another person. -Mark
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