There seems to be no freezing if I use Thunderbird in Windows safe mode

As already discussed, Windows safe mode disables anti-virus software. So that means your anti-virus software is most likely the culprit.

Below are generic instructions for adjusting settings of your anti-virus software. If you're having difficulties to make the adjustments for your anti-virus software, please contact the respective vendor or their support forum.

Create an exception in your anti-virus software for the Thunderbird profile folder, so that the anti-virus real-time scanner will not scan it. http://kb.mozillazine.org/Profile_folder_-_Thunderbird

Don't let your anti-virus software scan incoming and outgoing messages.

Don't let your anti-virus software scan attachments.

Don't let your anti-virus software intercept your secure connection to the server.

Remove any add-ons your anti-virus software may have installed in Thunderbird.

I needed to send these emails which is not possible in safe mode

You're supposed to start Windows in safe mode with networking enabled. If this disables any WLAN connections, you'd need to use a wired connection.

I installed version 45 beta.

Why? Did you create a new profile for it?

my text modules (add-on Quicktext) ‚disappeared’, i.e. seem to have been deleted, during the same time period when I installed the version 45 beta.

This isn't related to the 'not responding' issue. It makes sense to address only one problem per thread. Please start a new thread for the add-on problem.

Hi Christ1, Thanks for your reply. If we believe in causality, it does not make sense to assume that anti-virus software is responsible for the freezing - because of various reasons (which I mentioned already before):

1. I have used Avira (and Avast) for ages and it never caused freezing of Thunderbird before. Why should it suddenly do this? 2. Avira has not caused freezing of Thunderbird on my (secondary) windows 7 computer. Why should it do this on my (main) windows 10 computer. 3. I suppose that countless other users use Avira + Thunderbird and they do not report freezing. Why should this combination cause freezing just on my computer (the windows 10 computer, not the windows 7 computer)? 4. Freezing started not when I used Avira, but the Windows defender! I installed Avira in order to exclude anti-virus software as reason for the freezing. In my view, installing Avira which did not stop freezing of Thunderbird proves that anti-virus software is not the cause of the freezing.

Do my reflections make sense?

I cannot reconstruct when exactly the freezing started. I remember it was before Christmas. Checking my programs, it is recognizable that on December 17 I must have received a huge Windows 10 update (which caused various other problems on my computer).

In sum, why do you suggest to search for the cause for the freezing in the anti-virus field (although there are good proofs for the fact that the anti-virus software is not responsible) instead of the Windows 10 field?

This has all been discussed in-depth already, and I'm not going to do it again.

Please follow the instructions given and report back here.

If you think anti-virus software isn't the culprit, then find the piece of software on your computer which is not started when you run Windows in safe mode and which causes Thunderbird not to respond.

Hi Christ1, my preceding response was not (only) related to your post, but primarily to that one of Wayne Merit (bugzilla) who also posted in the framework of this thread. Please read his suggestions: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1262517

I would in fact appreciate avoiding trial-and-error procedures. I am used to proceed rationally and goal-oriented. I have given numerous reasons why your suggestions contradict the factual evidence. If you believe that I falsely interpret this evidence, please explain why. (Btw, I am an academic scholar/scientist, i.e. if there is anything I believe I am able of, this is relating factual evidence to hypotheses and, on the basis of my knowledge, concluding from that which procedure is rational and which one not.)

In my initial post, I also wrote that I have basically tried every suggestion that is available on the web (except for starting the computer in safe mode; yet did this yesterday). This means I deinstalled add-ons, created a new profile etc. pp. weeks ago(!!!).

If freezing of Thunderbird is caused by anti-virus software as you suppose, it must be caused by both Windows Defender AND Avira - or rather by a software component which is used by both of them. Second, if this software component is responsible, it must have newly been introduced in December, when freezing started, by Windows Defender and Avira at the same time (which sounds rather unlikely to me). Why isn't it more likely that this software component was introduced by the Windows 10 update in December (but has then been used by both Windows Defender and Avira)? Which could this software component be? And if Microsoft distributed an update with a software component causing freezing in December, why do not all other users of Windows 10 + Thunderbird having received the same bug by Microsoft in December complain about the same problem of freezing on their computers? All those facts together do not lead to a coherent picture.

I suggest you have a read here https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing:Antivirus_Related_Performance_Issues your choices of anti virus products I think all get a mention as causing difficulties. But the issues do differ over time and with version. Windows 10 does appear to be a work in progress and suffer from some remarkable issues that Microsoft patches, but never actually acknowledges. at one point failure to get mail was caused by a Microsoft security fix.

You may also find this link informative https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing:Memory_Usage_Problems the diagnostics offered there are basically universal.

Your add-ons are in the add-on manager, On the toolbar then  It is quite probable that quick text was disabled either on update or downgrade as incompatible with one or the other versions.

> All those facts together do not lead to a coherent picture.

And yet you want simple answers with lots of explanation?

The links Matt posted get as close as possible to being both simple, and complex. There are hundreds of possible user configurations, so please don't expect us to go into more detail unless you test what has already been extensively documented to help users.

Hi Matt and Wayne (in alphabetical order),

Apologies for answering late. I needed some time to read the information to which Matt pointed. Furthermore, I have increasingly the impression that Thunderbird 'learns to freeze', i.e. if I change something in the system, Thunderbird does not freeze at the beginning, but after a couple of hours starts freezing. (And, of course, freezing does not occur regularly, i.e. 'always if I send an email' or 'always if I send an email of a certain size'.)

Here is what I have done the past days: I have disabled Avira from scanning the Thunderbird profile (i.e. added an 'exception' in the user configuration of Avira). This seemed to stop freezing for the first five emails. Then it occurred again. I have disabled Avira from scanning thunderbird.exe. This was the only process of the pool of processes Thunderbird offered to me that was related to Thunderbird. (I hope it does not only include opening Thunderbird, but also sending emails etc.) Again: the first 12 hours, it worked fine. Then, freezing started again.

Re safe mode: In safe mode with network connections, freezing did not occur, as I wrote, but this might not be representative because the wlan connection is deactivated and 'normal' ports for lan do not exist in 'modern' notebooks anymore; there might be an adapter (lan to usb), but I do not have one (yet)).

Did I understand you properly that starting windows (and additionally Thunderbird) in safe mode serves to indicate that the antivirus software is the reason for the freezing? If so, why does freezing disappear in safe mode and occur with disabled anti-virus scanning of Thunderbird components (provided I disabled it)?

All best.

L

LisaMeierhoff said

Did I understand you properly that starting windows (and additionally Thunderbird) in safe mode serves to indicate that the antivirus software is the reason for the freezing?

That is one strong possibility.

LisaMeierhoff said

If so, why does freezing disappear in safe mode and occur with disabled anti-virus scanning of Thunderbird components (provided I disabled it)?

There are 20+ possibilities listed in https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing:Memory_Usage_Problems

In addition, disabling bits or even all of AV isn't always realible. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's a proven fact.

Bottom line, if one really wants to prove the cause is AV, uninstall the AV. If the problem still occurs, then reinstall the AV (with Thunderbird recommended settings) and look for a different cause

Oh, we go round in circles. In January, I installed AV in order to replace Windows Defender wanting to exclude WD as cause for the freezing. --> Freezing also occurred with AV. I turned off AV a couple of days ago which naturally leads to WD taking over the system. --> Freezing continues. I uninstalled AV and installed AVG. --> Freezing continues. (In sum: Using windows in safe mode stops freezing in safe mode, but does not necessarily indicate that anti-virus software is responsible for the freezing. )

What to do now? Replacing AVG by AVAST? Searching for the freezing on a more basic level such the operating system (Windows 10)?

LisaMeierhoff said

Oh, we go round in circles. In January, I installed AV in order to replace Windows Defender wanting to exclude WD as cause for the freezing. --> Freezing also occurred with AV. I turned off AV a couple of days ago which naturally leads to WD taking over the system. --> Freezing continues. I uninstalled AV and installed AVG. --> Freezing continues. (In sum: Using windows in safe mode stops freezing in safe mode, but does not necessarily indicate that anti-virus software is responsible for the freezing. )

that's good info

LisaMeierhoff said

What to do now? Replacing AVG by AVAST? Searching for the freezing on a more basic level such the operating system (Windows 10)?

A. Did you go through the entire list at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing:Memory_Usage_Problems ?

B. Run with No AV and No Defender

C. Tell us what software you have installed that is not "normal application software", like MS-Office or MS-Word

Wayne Mery said

A. Did you go through the entire list at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing:Memory_Usage_Problems ?

Yes, I think so.

B. Run with No AV and No Defender

Yes. I added/changed a registry key in order to disable Defender (because Windows 10 does not allow any manual disabling).

C. Tell us what software you have installed that is not "normal application software", like MS-Office or MS-Word

I don't see any relationship between software and freezing. When freezing started I did not install any new software, but I got a huge windows update as I mentioned before. What kind of not normal application do you have in mind?

LisaMeierhoff said

I don't see any relationship between software and freezing. When freezing started I did not install any new software, but I got a huge windows update as I mentioned before. What kind of not normal application do you have in mind?

Something other than innocuous applications like Word, Excel.

Examples of not normal are backup software, security software, skype and other apps listed in your system tray as running in the background.

I see. Nothing should run in the background except for the firewall and AV software (and countless components of Windows 10). However, there are obviously running components of software in the background although those programs are closed. I'll observe this. (The programs that regularly run are WORD, Thunderbird, Firefox, Acrobat Reader. That's it.)

Quite mysterious issue, the freezing.

WIth Thunderbird do you use the RRS feeds? I have over a long period had issues with Flash. Primarily in Firefox, but it occasionally causes issues in Thunderbird. But flash only works in RSS feeds in Thunderbird.

Thanks for this idea. RSS feeds as possible reasons for freezing are listed on one of the web pages. I do not use them neither in Thunderbird nor elsewhere.

What do you mean by flash?

Hi everybody,

Since nobody answered to my last email anymore, this looks as all known methods to solve the problem have been tried. How to develop unknown solutions? (Thunderbird is still regularly freezing.)

Thanks in advance.

You might have more than one issue occuring here. Anti-Virus is a well known cause of many issues regarding freezing as it interrupts to scan, but another is background updates. eg: Adobe, Java, anti-Virus software etc and Windows of course.

What settings do you have for Windows 10 performing checks for/auto installing/asking you for updates?

Located some info :

• http://www.thewindowsclub.com/turn-off-windows-update-in-windows-10

a few quoted sections from the above link: First are the home users who will not have the option to defer upgrades. The updates will download and install even if they are working on something, making the computer slow in some cases.

Windows 10 will keep on downloading updates as soon as they are available and will occupy your computer resources, when you may not want it too

Also:

• http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows-10/getstarted-choose-how-updates-are-installed

And the great news is that you don’t have to do anything, because updates will be automatically downloaded and installed whenever they’re available. (Unless you're on a metered connection, in which case the updates won't download until you opt to get them.)

Metered connections - located a link with info:

• http://www.howtogeek.com/224471/how-to-prevent-windows-10-from-automatically-downloading-updates/

Hi Toad-Hall, I wold love to respond: yes, that's it. However, computers do not check and download updates every 2 minutes all day - which would be necessary in order to create frequent coincidences between me writing and sending emails and the computer updating. Furthermore, I think I have disabled autoupdate of windows 10 (by means of a script). Additionally, a computer with 8 GB RAM should be able to download updates without freezing.

To specify the freezing: It occurs often, but not always when I have started to send an email. It occurs (almost?) regularly if I add an address to a filter (yet, it is not the filter; I have disabled the filter in the past to check this out). It occurs sometimes when I write a longer email (perhaps when autosave takes place). However, it is not autosave because this operates every minute while the freezing while writing an email occurs perhaps once or twice a day.

I have also been experiencing freezing problems on Windows 10, particularly when archiving messages, and trying to figure this out. I never experienced such problems on Windows 7. A major difference between my new setup on Windows 10 and my old setup is that I have relocated the profile folder to a different partition. It is no longer in c:\Users\XXXXX\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\.

After trying many solutions posted online with regard to Thunderbird freezing I think I have narrowed the problem down to the fact that I have moved the profile folder and it is being re-indexed by Windows search whenever I move messages in Thunderbird.

@LisaMeierhoff Have you moved your profile folder from its default location but not disabled Windows Search as discussed in point 6 at: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:Testing:Memory_Usage_Problems

> After trying many solutions posted online with regard to Thunderbird freezing I think I have narrowed the problem down to the fact that I have moved the profile folder and it is being re-indexed by Windows search whenever I move messages in Thunderbird.

In addition, some users have found relief by disabling the indexer service of Windows Search (iirc the acryonym is WSS). No one understands precisely why this helps. The indexer is one of things that gets temporarily disabled when Windows is started in safe mode.