X
Tap here to go to the mobile version of the site.

Support Forum

Why is FF 4 a clone of the disgusting IE 8?

Posted

I have been using Firefox because my son-in-law recommended it. I have been really satisfied with the 3.x.x.x. Then I got an update note to go to Firefox 4. It really disarms the reason to use Firefox. FF looks like and feels like IE. So that said, what's the point of you folks?

I attempted to uninstall ff4, but couldn't figure it out, so I just downloaded FF 3.6.xx. Since then, I like the handle and feel of what I was using before getting sucked into the mire of FF4.

If FF4 is a beta, then beta make it with the same top portion like the last version of 3 I like the 'File - Edit - View - History - Bookmarks - Tools - Help on top and not buried in an inaccesable menu. I threw away MS Office 2007 in favor of Office 3 because it was somewhat a-kin to changing a baby's dirty diaper while wearing boxing gloves. I'm not too skilled in computer management, but like art, food, automobiles, I may not know much about these things, but I do know what I like.

If you are going to change Firefox to a clone of IE, then so be it. I may have to try to use the browser Safari, that came with my Apple I-Touch. I have it on all my computers. It too is for free, and I need to use it to access some Apple applications. It is adequate, a little clumsy but adequate. I haven't taken the initiative to use it on a regular basis, so I can't make a quality judgment. It works well from the Touch, and the only drawback is the touch screen is too sensitive for my sense of touch.

Thanks for the soap box, but I downloaded and installed FF4 looking forward to a faster, sharper, better, easier to handle, but found the same look and feel as the later Microsoft applications and programs. Disappointing at best

Yours TRULY,

Dale L. Olson

(Edited to stop the question from scrolling off to the right - TonyE)

I have been using Firefox because my son-in-law recommended it. I have been really satisfied with the 3.x.x.x. Then I got an update note to go to Firefox 4. It really disarms the reason to use Firefox. FF looks like and feels like IE. So that said, what's the point of you folks? I attempted to uninstall ff4, but couldn't figure it out, so I just downloaded FF 3.6.xx. Since then, I like the handle and feel of what I was using before getting sucked into the mire of FF4. If FF4 is a beta, then beta make it with the same top portion like the last version of 3 I like the 'File - Edit - View - History - Bookmarks - Tools - Help on top and not buried in an inaccesable menu. I threw away MS Office 2007 in favor of Office 3 because it was somewhat a-kin to changing a baby's dirty diaper while wearing boxing gloves. I'm not too skilled in computer management, but like art, food, automobiles, I may not know much about these things, but I do know what I like. If you are going to change Firefox to a clone of IE, then so be it. I may have to try to use the browser Safari, that came with my Apple I-Touch. I have it on all my computers. It too is for free, and I need to use it to access some Apple applications. It is adequate, a little clumsy but adequate. I haven't taken the initiative to use it on a regular basis, so I can't make a quality judgment. It works well from the Touch, and the only drawback is the touch screen is too sensitive for my sense of touch. Thanks for the soap box, but I downloaded and installed FF4 looking forward to a faster, sharper, better, easier to handle, but found the same look and feel as the later Microsoft applications and programs. Disappointing at best Yours TRULY, Dale L. Olson ''(Edited to stop the question from scrolling off to the right - TonyE)''

Modified by TonyE

Additional System Details

Installed Plug-ins

  • nphpclipbook
  • HP Product Detection Plugin
  • The QuickTime Plugin allows you to view a wide variety of multimedia content in Web pages. For more information, visit the QuickTime Web site.
  • Adobe PDF Plug-In For Firefox and Netscape "9.4.2"
  • NPRuntime Script Plug-in Library for Java(TM) Deploy
  • Default Plug-in
  • Shockwave Flash 10.2 r153
  • Adobe Shockwave for Director Netscape plug-in, version 11.5.8.612
  • iTunes Detector Plug-in
  • GEPlugin
  • Next Generation Java Plug-in 1.6.0_24 for Mozilla browsers
  • 4.0.60129.0
  • NPWLPG
  • Google Update

Application

  • User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.16) Gecko/20110319 Firefox/3.6.16

More Information

Craigyas 0 solutions 1 answers

Firefox 4 is most certainly not a clone of IE, Firefox 4 is streamlined, it has removed the bulk of it's predecessor in a particularly stylish way. Firefox 4 is much easier to use and is not nearly as slow as E8. I am highly offended that you would even consider one of the great open source programs the same as INTERNET EXPLORER which is possibly the worst thing since the macbook air. If you spend a few minutes to take the tutorials, and look around at the new features I am sure that you will be pleased with what you see. As someone who has followed both Firefox and IE8 through the beta process, I can tell you that Firefox 4 is far superior to the corporate junk that is internet explorer.

I took the picture with a new firefox 4 addon. just go to the firefox bar, click addons, and it is one of the recommendations.

Firefox 4 is most certainly not a clone of IE, Firefox 4 is streamlined, it has removed the bulk of it's predecessor in a particularly stylish way. Firefox 4 is much easier to use and is not nearly as slow as E8. I am highly offended that you would even consider one of the great open source programs the same as INTERNET EXPLORER which is possibly the worst thing since the macbook air. If you spend a few minutes to take the tutorials, and look around at the new features I am sure that you will be pleased with what you see. As someone who has followed both Firefox and IE8 through the beta process, I can tell you that Firefox 4 is far superior to the corporate junk that is internet explorer. I took the picture with a new firefox 4 addon. just go to the firefox bar, click addons, and it is one of the recommendations.
gwmbox 1 solutions 14 answers

Helpful Reply

While I agree it is not an IE8 clone it is as buggy as IE8, you only need to read the many posts on this forum to see what they are, from font rendering to crashes and everything in between.

I thought that extensive testing was done with betas and RC's but obviously not or maybe these are all new issues... seems odd to have what one would call basic render issues only happening post delivery of the final version.

I'd also say that IE is far from corporate junk, at least from IE8 and IE9. I don't use IE much but to say it is junk is the same as saying FF is junk too, they both have good and bad points so lets be honest about that. Though for now it would seem that FF4 is having many of the teething issues of a 'new' browser, but the thing is that it is not a 'new' browser, at version 4, one would have hoped things like font rendering would be very smooth and working well out of the box 'without' having to add an add-on or tweak a config file.

GW

While I agree it is not an IE8 clone it is as buggy as IE8, you only need to read the many posts on this forum to see what they are, from font rendering to crashes and everything in between. I thought that extensive testing was done with betas and RC's but obviously not or maybe these are all new issues... seems odd to have what one would call basic render issues only happening post delivery of the final version. I'd also say that IE is far from corporate junk, at least from IE8 and IE9. I don't use IE much but to say it is junk is the same as saying FF is junk too, they both have good and bad points so lets be honest about that. Though for now it would seem that FF4 is having many of the teething issues of a 'new' browser, but the thing is that it is not a 'new' browser, at version 4, one would have hoped things like font rendering would be very smooth and working well out of the box 'without' having to add an add-on or tweak a config file. GW

Modified by gwmbox

the-edmeister
  • Top 25 Contributor
  • Moderator
5425 solutions 40500 answers

Dale,

It's a shame that you didn't ask for help with Firefox 4.0 before going off half-cocked with your criticism of the new features and look, some of which can be changed quite easily through changing a few menu options.

Dale, It's a shame that you didn't ask for help with Firefox 4.0 before going off half-cocked with your criticism of the new features and look, some of which can be changed quite easily through changing a few menu options.
gwmbox 1 solutions 14 answers

Dale, is that addressed to me or to the OP? I have been through many config changes just to get font rendering fixed, which should not need to be done in the first place.

GW

Dale, is that addressed to me or to the OP? I have been through many config changes just to get font rendering fixed, which should not need to be done in the first place. GW

Question owner

I attempted to find a help menu, but nothing would come up. The big objection I have is the loss of the header across the top with the [ File Edit View History Bookmarks Tools Help]. Especially the file tab. I like to have the opportunity to preview what I might be printing. Paper is expensive, ink is expensive, and I can set the size so I can get as much or as little on a page as I would like!

I attempted to find a help menu, but nothing would come up. The big objection I have is the loss of the header across the top with the [ File Edit View History Bookmarks Tools Help]. Especially the file tab. I like to have the opportunity to preview what I might be printing. Paper is expensive, ink is expensive, and I can set the size so I can get as much or as little on a page as I would like!

Modified by daleo@mchsi.com

the-edmeister
  • Top 25 Contributor
  • Moderator
5425 solutions 40500 answers

Firefox button - in the right-menu column go to Options and then click on Menu bar.

Or you can hit the Alt key to temporarily display the Menu bar.

Firefox button - in the right-menu column go to Options and then click on '''Menu bar'''. Or you can hit the '''Alt''' key to temporarily display the Menu bar.

Question owner

I can't say if this answer would help. I deleted FF4 in favor of the FF3.6.x.x. I am happy with this, and unless I am forced to go to FF4, I won't.

I can't say if this answer would help. I deleted FF4 in favor of the FF3.6.x.x. I am happy with this, and unless I am forced to go to FF4, I won't.
Gspellvin 0 solutions 1 answers

Helpful Reply

I also am not a fan of FF4. Navigation with home at the right instead of where the left arrow right arrow reload and stop appear was a disapointment.

Also is the fact that the program and other screens (xml content, etc) waste about 1/3 of the total screen space.

I like the book mark bar, and tabs, however, tab information is also displayed on the title bar. Why not dump the title bar and stick it to the left of the menu bar? OR Why not enable me to drag menu bar up to the title bar?

Why not shrink the padding on all the other menu bars? Style is fine but form should follow function.

more wasted space ; (

I also am not a fan of FF4. Navigation with home at the right instead of where the left arrow right arrow reload and stop appear was a disapointment. Also is the fact that the program and other screens (xml content, etc) waste about 1/3 of the total screen space. I like the book mark bar, and tabs, however, tab information is also displayed on the title bar. Why not dump the title bar and stick it to the left of the menu bar? OR Why not enable me to drag menu bar up to the title bar? Why not shrink the padding on all the other menu bars? Style is fine but form should follow function. more wasted space ; (
the-edmeister
  • Top 25 Contributor
  • Moderator
5425 solutions 40500 answers

@Gspellvin,

If you're on Linux or Windows, the Firefox 4.0 Titlebar will be used by Tabs when you have Tabs on Top selected and the browser window is Maximized.

The Menu bar is hidden by default (Vista and Win7) and is replaced by the orange Firefox button which sits in the Titlebar. XP still shows the Menu bar by default. Right-click a toolbar and de-select Menu bar to hide it.
The Home button and the Reload & Stop buttons can be moved to where you want them by opening the Customize mode and click-drag them.
https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/How+to+customize+the+toolbar
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Toolbar_customization

The Home button was originally going to be an "app tab" on the Tab bar, but that feature didn't make the "cut" for 4.0 - it looks like it will be in 5.0 which is slated for release in June.

@Gspellvin, If you're on Linux or Windows, the Firefox 4.0 Titlebar will be used by Tabs when you have Tabs on Top selected and the browser window is Maximized. The Menu bar is hidden by default (Vista and Win7) and is replaced by the orange Firefox button which sits in the Titlebar. ''XP still shows the Menu bar by default. Right-click a toolbar and de-select Menu bar to hide it.'' <br /> The Home button and the Reload & Stop buttons can be moved to where you want them by opening the Customize mode and click-drag them. <br/> https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/How+to+customize+the+toolbar <br /> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Toolbar_customization The Home button was originally going to be an "app tab" on the Tab bar, but that feature didn't make the "cut" for 4.0 - it looks like it will be in 5.0 which is slated for release in June.

Question owner

The original intent of my posting was not to start a war of words. I was hoping to contact Fire Fox developers and contributors to make THEM aware of my thoughts and input. Instead I got multiple replies telling me I can't post where I did. I am also accused of 'going off half cocked'; 'why didn't I seek help before deleting the program'. If I could have found help, easily, I would have. If I have offended the developers or contributors, I am sorry. It was not my intention to raise the hackles of those who are working to change Fire Fox.
It is my hope that the next edition of Fire Fox is as user friendly as FF3.6.x.x.x then I shall continue to use it It is comfortable to use, easy to handle, allows me to do what I want to do - EASILY - I'm not a power user, so I don't need an application that is 'overdeveloped'.
I know change is inevitable, and generally not well accepted, mostly due to how it is presented. Usually change is presented like being placed in front of a firing squad, and told to accept it or greet the alternative. I've been told what the change is, then expected to perform. The changes are expected to be inplimented with little or no explanation or direction.
The computer world has changed so very much since my first Atari 400 / Commadore 64. Acronyms and code words specific to the Computer World make little sense unless you are in-the-know. If you are not 'up to date' with the most recent developments, they are a mystery. Sherlock Holmes, Perry Mason, Mannix, Jim Rockford, or Kojak I am not.
I like manuals for instructions! Written in everyday English that will guide me in the pursuit of what I am looking for. Unfortunately most manuals are translated from the developers original language to English, but by a non-English speaker. The process of viewing 'manuals' on line while trying to follow the instructions or procedures as directed, is difficult, at best unless the reader-user has 2 of computers. One of them for the experiments, and the other to view the 'instruction manual'.
I'd like to not to thought of as 'an intolerant' because I won't accept a view as my own, when I can't agree with the 'popular conception'. I know as much about food, automobiles, or art, as I do about computer software. I know pleases my taste, what is fun to drive, what is pleasing to the eye (I won't allow pornography from the middle ages to hang in my home) and I know what works for me. If I need to go for a swim in the sea of Microsoft style menus to locate what I'm after, I might as well return to a pad and pencil. At least I know where the pencils and paper are.
Thank you for the forum to speak my mind, and as I said earlier, if you weren't too bored to have read this far, my intention wasn't to anger any one. I was intending to present what I saw and experienced and have these experiences appraised before release of the final product. I see I missed my mark, but since I couldn't see the target, I should have expected to miss it. (I probably did go off half-cocked) It's my experience, after working with engineers and developers in industry for 35 years, that those who are too close to an issue tend to overlook or not see flaws in the process. I saw what I saw, experienced what I experienced, and attempted to report what I noted. If this strikes a red flag, then I apologize to the offended.

Dale :-)

edited out the "tabs" at the beginning of lines - it pushes the following test off the page - moderator

The original intent of my posting was not to start a war of words. I was hoping to contact Fire Fox developers and contributors to make THEM aware of my thoughts and input. Instead I got multiple replies telling me I can't post where I did. I am also accused of 'going off half cocked'; 'why didn't I seek help before deleting the program'. If I could have found help, easily, I would have. If I have offended the developers or contributors, I am sorry. It was not my intention to raise the hackles of those who are working to change Fire Fox. <br /> It is my hope that the next edition of Fire Fox is as user friendly as FF3.6.x.x.x then I shall continue to use it It is comfortable to use, easy to handle, allows me to do what I want to do - EASILY - I'm not a power user, so I don't need an application that is 'overdeveloped'. <br /> I know change is inevitable, and generally not well accepted, mostly due to how it is presented. Usually change is presented like being placed in front of a firing squad, and told to accept it or greet the alternative. I've been told what the change is, then expected to perform. The changes are expected to be inplimented with little or no explanation or direction. <br/> The computer world has changed so very much since my first Atari 400 / Commadore 64. Acronyms and code words specific to the Computer World make little sense unless you are in-the-know. If you are not 'up to date' with the most recent developments, they are a mystery. Sherlock Holmes, Perry Mason, Mannix, Jim Rockford, or Kojak I am not. <br /> I like manuals for instructions! Written in everyday English that will guide me in the pursuit of what I am looking for. Unfortunately most manuals are translated from the developers original language to English, but by a non-English speaker. The process of viewing 'manuals' on line while trying to follow the instructions or procedures as directed, is difficult, at best unless the reader-user has 2 of computers. One of them for the experiments, and the other to view the 'instruction manual'. <br /> I'd like to not to thought of as 'an intolerant' because I won't accept a view as my own, when I can't agree with the 'popular conception'. I know as much about food, automobiles, or art, as I do about computer software. I know pleases my taste, what is fun to drive, what is pleasing to the eye (I won't allow pornography from the middle ages to hang in my home) and I know what works for me. If I need to go for a swim in the sea of Microsoft style menus to locate what I'm after, I might as well return to a pad and pencil. At least I know where the pencils and paper are. <br /> Thank you for the forum to speak my mind, and as I said earlier, if you weren't too bored to have read this far, my intention wasn't to anger any one. I was intending to present what I saw and experienced and have these experiences appraised before release of the final product. I see I missed my mark, but since I couldn't see the target, I should have expected to miss it. (I probably did go off half-cocked) It's my experience, after working with engineers and developers in industry for 35 years, that those who are too close to an issue tend to overlook or not see flaws in the process. I saw what I saw, experienced what I experienced, and attempted to report what I noted. If this strikes a red flag, then I apologize to the offended. Dale :-) ''edited out the "tabs" at the beginning of lines - it pushes the following test off the page - moderator''

Modified by the-edmeister

Question owner

EDMeister,


I'm not sure that wasn't the reason I sought out FF web site. I wanted to reach the developers and contributors and give them my opinion and experiences. It makes no difference whether FF is cloned from IE. To open them up and attempt to use them, the 1st impression is what then tends to set the tone for the experience. I wasn't impressed with IE, which I'm using now, and when I opened FF4, it looked pretty much the same. Enough for me to say, but FF3.6.x.x.x will continue as my default browser.

EDMeister, I'm not sure that wasn't the reason I sought out FF web site. I wanted to reach the developers and contributors and give them my opinion and experiences. It makes no difference whether FF is cloned from IE. To open them up and attempt to use them, the 1st impression is what then tends to set the tone for the experience. I wasn't impressed with IE, which I'm using now, and when I opened FF4, it looked pretty much the same. Enough for me to say, but FF3.6.x.x.x will continue as my default browser.

Modified by the-edmeister

mrnickcooper 0 solutions 1 answers

FF4 is not a clone of anything, but it SUCKS. I am or rather was, a huge FF fan and user but this is just a stupid roll-out of a product that is not past the beta stage. I don't mind getting a little dirty under the hood for specific uses but to have all kinds of problems with basic daily home computer functions like downloading a .mp3 or streaming a movie via Netflix...well that is going to make me either switch back to FF 3.6 or go over to Chrome. Such a waste of time dealing with this today. I am very dissapointed.

FF4 is not a clone of anything, but it SUCKS. I am or rather was, a huge FF fan and user but this is just a stupid roll-out of a product that is not past the beta stage. I don't mind getting a little dirty under the hood for specific uses but to have all kinds of problems with basic daily home computer functions like downloading a .mp3 or streaming a movie via Netflix...well that is going to make me either switch back to FF 3.6 or go over to Chrome. Such a waste of time dealing with this today. I am very dissapointed.

Question owner

Mr Cooper.

    I downloaded ff 3.6.16 to get rid of FF4.  Yesterday, I got another 

update message from FF to download and install 4. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I'm not going back. 3.6.17. got downloaded and it was installed when I turned it on this afternoon. What the update was for, I can't know, and I wouldn't know if it was better or not. I just know it's easier to get around in than doing the Bill Gates thing of hiding what is needful in menus without instructions where everything went. If you keep FF4, good luck, and if you go back to FF 3.6.x.x, you'll be 'home again'.

Mr Cooper. I downloaded ff 3.6.16 to get rid of FF4. Yesterday, I got another update message from FF to download and install 4. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I'm not going back. 3.6.17. got downloaded and it was installed when I turned it on this afternoon. What the update was for, I can't know, and I wouldn't know if it was better or not. I just know it's easier to get around in than doing the Bill Gates thing of hiding what is needful in menus without instructions where everything went. If you keep FF4, good luck, and if you go back to FF 3.6.x.x, you'll be 'home again'.

Modified by daleo@mchsi.com

Jos7000 0 solutions 3 answers

WHY does updating a browser need to include moving everything around. Surely to make browsing easier things should be less convoluted? Upgrade to the new version, it's upto 6 times faster, where did it say 'and we've redesigned the layout so you can't make use of the speed. At least in Microsoft's updates there is often an option to skin like the older version. I HATE updating firefox. Improve the stability, the speed, add buttons if you must, but leave the layout alone or give the option to skin :-(((( I also went to the feedback page and this doesn't appear to work properly either. I want to rollback, there isn't an option, I looked for the option to use the old layout, there isn't an option. In future I will just choose to ignore all updates. Half a story, false advertising, call it what you like. I just find that FF is changing things for the sake of changing them. I haven't found other issues yet and at the same time I haven't noticed ANY increase in speed. If it ain't broke.....

WHY does updating a browser need to include moving everything around. Surely to make browsing easier things should be less convoluted? Upgrade to the new version, it's upto 6 times faster, where did it say 'and we've redesigned the layout so you can't make use of the speed. At least in Microsoft's updates there is often an option to skin like the older version. I HATE updating firefox. Improve the stability, the speed, add buttons if you must, but leave the layout alone or give the option to skin :-(((( I also went to the feedback page and this doesn't appear to work properly either. I want to rollback, there isn't an option, I looked for the option to use the old layout, there isn't an option. In future I will just choose to ignore all updates. Half a story, false advertising, call it what you like. I just find that FF is changing things for the sake of changing them. I haven't found other issues yet and at the same time I haven't noticed ANY increase in speed. If it ain't broke.....
njstrebe 0 solutions 4 answers

How do I go back to the old firefox?

How do I go back to the old firefox?
everett1a 0 solutions 3 answers

I went back to 3.6 too. and we will be forced to go to 4, or ditch FF.not sure which I will do yet, depends on if they fix 4. right now IE is the better choice between FF4 and IE

I went back to 3.6 too. and we will be forced to go to 4, or ditch FF.not sure which I will do yet, depends on if they fix 4. right now IE is the better choice between FF4 and IE
everett1a 0 solutions 3 answers

google mozilla or FF, look down 'till you see 3.6 download. make sure it is a mozilla site listed at the bottom of the hit, or you may get something else.

google mozilla or FF, look down 'till you see 3.6 download. make sure it is a mozilla site listed at the bottom of the hit, or you may get something else.

Question owner

Everett1A

    Thanks for the info.  My feelings exactly.  If I have to play with a

duck, which duck I play with doesn't make any difference. I talked with my son-in-law who works for Dell about the FF mix-up. He told me there are BUGS in it, and the 'plug in's' that are needed to make it work aren't written yet. He hates the Bill Gates approach of delving into endless menus to make it do or appear to do what you want it to. He's convinced that programs should be written with the essentials up front. Accessories should be in the menus.

Everett1A Thanks for the info. My feelings exactly. If I have to play with a duck, which duck I play with doesn't make any difference. I talked with my son-in-law who works for Dell about the FF mix-up. He told me there are BUGS in it, and the 'plug in's' that are needed to make it work aren't written yet. He hates the Bill Gates approach of delving into endless menus to make it do or appear to do what you want it to. He's convinced that programs should be written with the essentials up front. Accessories should be in the menus.

Modified by daleo@mchsi.com