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Clean reinstall and other solutions for startup crashes (was: Why this article was written)

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  • Last reply by Tonnes
  1. Joni 308 posts
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    This article was written in response to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1063052

    (Edited to include the right bug!)

    This article was written in response to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1063052 (Edited to include the right bug!)
    Modified by Joni on
  2. AliceWyman 4767 posts
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    A clean reinstall has always been suggested as a solution for startup crashes. See http://kb.mozillazine.org/Firefox_crashes#Crash_when_starting_Firefox ... which includes older bugzilla links after this paragraph:

    • Problems with Firefox program files can cause Firefox to crash at startup, even in Firefox Safe Mode. To resolve, reinstall Firefox. If the startup crashes persist, do a "clean reinstall" (remove the existing Firefox program folder, download the Firefox installer from mozilla.org with another browser, and then reinstall Firefox).

    I'll make a revision to remove the references to Firefox 32 and another one to the Firefox crashes - Troubleshoot, prevent and get help fixing crashes, to link to this article.

    A clean reinstall has always been suggested as a solution for startup crashes. See http://kb.mozillazine.org/Firefox_crashes#Crash_when_starting_Firefox ... which includes older bugzilla links after this paragraph: *Problems with Firefox program files can cause Firefox to crash at startup, even in Firefox Safe Mode. To resolve, reinstall Firefox. If the startup crashes persist, do a "clean reinstall" (remove the existing Firefox program folder, download the Firefox installer from mozilla.org with another browser, and then reinstall Firefox). I'll make a revision to remove the references to Firefox 32 and another one to the [[Firefox crashes]], to link to this article.
  3. John99 3665 posts
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    I have a pending edit too the other crash article.


    As this one is apparently the easiest to find it would seem sensible also to explicitly link this back to the general article Firefox crashes - Troubleshoot, prevent and get help fixing crashes. I will make an edit accordingly but not self approve.

    I have a pending edit too the other crash article. ---------- As this one is apparently the easiest to find it would seem sensible also to explicitly link this back to the general article [[Firefox crashes - Troubleshoot, prevent and get help fixing crashes]]. I will make an edit accordingly but not self approve.
    Modified by John99 on
  4. ideato 567 posts
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    John99 said

    I have a pending edit too the other crash article.

    As this one is apparently the easiest to find it would seem sensible also to explicitly link this back to the general article Firefox crashes - Troubleshoot, prevent and get help fixing crashes. I will make an edit accordingly but not self approve.

    Correct ! Done.

    ''John99 [[#post-11002|said]]'' <blockquote> I have a pending edit too the other crash article. ---------- As this one is apparently the easiest to find it would seem sensible also to explicitly link this back to the general article [[Firefox crashes - Troubleshoot, prevent and get help fixing crashes]]. I will make an edit accordingly but not self approve. </blockquote> Correct ! Done.
  5. AliceWyman 4767 posts
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    Great!

    I made a few more edits, including a section on trying Firefox Safe Mode as a first step.

    Great! I made a few more edits, including a section on trying Firefox Safe Mode as a first step.
  6. AliceWyman 4767 posts
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    P.S. MozillaZine's article, Firefox crashes under"Crash when starting Firefox", still links to the archived Firefox crashes when you open it article. (From the related discussion, the idea was to merge the old article with Firefox crashes - Troubleshoot, prevent and get help fixing crashes and either redirect or archive the old article.) This was back when Michael Verdi was trying to reduce the total number of articles.

    Maybe Firefox crashes when you open it shouldn't have been archived in the first place, since this article is getting to look a lot like the old one.

    Anyway, both Firefox crashes when you open it and MozillaZine's article mention other installed software or malware can cause Firefox to crash at startup. If we want to expand this article further, I think that we should add a paragraph on that and also link to Troubleshoot Firefox issues caused by malware. For Windows, we could suggest starting in Windows Safe Mode, as mentioned in MozillaZine's article, If Firefox also crashes when you try to start in Firefox Safe Mode but Firefox will start when you reboot the computer in Windows Safe Mode, it's likely that other software installed on your computer that starts automatically in Windows normal mode (or malware) is causing the crash.

    P.S. MozillaZine's article, [http://kb.mozillazine.org/Firefox_crashes#Crash_when_starting_Firefox Firefox crashes] under"Crash when starting Firefox", still links to the archived [[Firefox crashes when you open it]] article. (From the [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/Firefox%20crashes%20when%20you%20open%20it/discuss related discussion], the idea was to merge the old article with [[Firefox crashes]] and either redirect or archive the old article.) This was back when Michael Verdi was trying to reduce the total number of articles. Maybe [[Firefox crashes when you open it]] shouldn't have been archived in the first place, since this article is getting to look a lot like the old one. Anyway, both [[Firefox crashes when you open it]] and [http://kb.mozillazine.org/Firefox_crashes#Crash_when_starting_Firefox MozillaZine's article] mention other installed software or malware can cause Firefox to crash at startup. If we want to expand this article further, I think that we should add a paragraph on that and also link to [[Troubleshoot Firefox issues caused by malware]]. For Windows, we could suggest starting in Windows Safe Mode, as mentioned in [http://kb.mozillazine.org/Firefox_crashes#Crash_when_starting_Firefox MozillaZine's article], ''If Firefox also crashes when you try to start in Firefox Safe Mode but Firefox will start when you reboot the computer in [http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Start-your-computer-in-safe-mode Windows Safe Mode], it's likely that other software installed on your computer that starts automatically in Windows normal mode (or malware) is causing the crash.''
    Modified by AliceWyman on
  7. John99 3665 posts
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    Quick Fix My concern was that this initial article was easy to find, but not providing enough information for all those that were likely to find it. The big worry was unnecessary re-installs would be done and quite possibly many would not fix the issue.

    The article could have explained how to do a clean reinstall of course, and that would have fixed a greater proportion of problems, but cause increased collateral damage.

    Discussions I think it is always a good idea to start discussions before new articles are created, and before major changes are made.

    Even if the discussion is limited or even just acting as a note from the writer editor at least we then see what the intentions are.

    I am not suggesting long discussions or preventing self approval, but I consider discussions may create an overview of what is intended and help prevent both duplication and gaps in article coverage.

    Discussions prior to starting new articles also help prevent us getting into a situation where we may need to start archiving again

    Alice's Comment I agree it is much like the old article. At present we probably have no need to tightly limit the number of articles and I think your suggestions are good, and probably simpler than trying to resurrect the old archived Firefox crashes when you open it. I will modify the article if no one objects to such changes.

    Lesson: Maybe temporary kb articles are a good idea Presumably SEO enabled the article to be easily found for that particular Fx34 crash. Possibly people at the time searched including date &/or Fx and could have missed other articles.

    Perhaps it would be a good idea to do that more often i.e pre chemspill and maybe instead of writing a long free-standing article put in suitable keywords and brief explanations but link to articles and specific sections of other articles where applicable.

    Possibly go even further, mention the breaking issue or potential chemspill issue, as a temporary note within any linked parent articles thus updating and increasing their discoverability.

    <u>Quick Fix</u> My concern was that this initial article was easy to find, but not providing enough information for all those that were likely to find it. The big worry was unnecessary re-installs would be done and quite possibly many would not fix the issue. The article could have explained how to do a clean reinstall of course, and that would have fixed a greater proportion of problems, but cause increased collateral damage. <u>Discussions</u> I think it is always a good idea to start discussions before new articles are created, and before major changes are made. Even if the discussion is limited or even just acting as a note from the writer editor at least we then see what the intentions are. I am not suggesting long discussions or preventing self approval, but I consider discussions may create an overview of what is intended and help prevent both duplication and gaps in article coverage. Discussions prior to starting new articles also help prevent us getting into a situation where we may need to start archiving again <u>Alice's Comment</u> I agree it is much like the old article. At present we probably have no need to tightly limit the number of articles and I think your suggestions are good, and probably simpler than trying to resurrect the old archived [[Firefox crashes when you open it]]. I will modify the article if no one objects to such changes. <u>Lesson: Maybe temporary kb articles are a good idea </u> Presumably SEO enabled the article to be easily found for that particular Fx34 crash. Possibly people at the time searched including date &/or Fx and could have missed other articles. Perhaps it would be a good idea to do that more often i.e pre chemspill and maybe instead of writing a long free-standing article put in suitable keywords and brief explanations but link to articles and specific sections of other articles where applicable. Possibly go even further, mention the breaking issue or potential chemspill issue, as a temporary note within any linked parent articles thus updating and increasing their discoverability.
  8. AliceWyman 4767 posts
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    John,

    The last section, "Get help fixing the problem" links to how to get a report ID to get help on the forum. I was thinking maybe we should leave the article as-is for now but it you want to add something else, go for it!

    You mentioned "temporary kb articles". We already have those; they're archived when they become obsolete. An example, which used to be linked from the main Firefox crashes article if you check /en-US/kb/firefox-crashes-troubleshoo.../history:

    The old "Latest Firefox issues" article also included temporary fixes for emerging issues in a single article, as you can see by browsing /en-US/kb/latest-firefox-issues/history. Related discussion: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/latest-firefox-issues/discuss The Latest Firefox issues article itself now redirects to hot topics listing which is afaik based on whether Hot Topics checked off for the article.

    John, The last section, "Get help fixing the problem" links to how to get a report ID to get help on the forum. I was thinking maybe we should leave the article as-is for now but it you want to add something else, go for it! You mentioned "temporary kb articles". We already have those; they're archived when they become obsolete. An example, which used to be linked from the main Firefox crashes article if you check [/en-US/kb/firefox-crashes-troubleshoot-prevent-and-get-help/history]: *[[Uninstall BitGuard to fix crashes with Firefox]] The old "Latest Firefox issues" article also included temporary fixes for emerging issues in a single article, as you can see by browsing [/en-US/kb/latest-firefox-issues/history]. Related discussion: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/latest-firefox-issues/discuss The [[Latest Firefox issues]] article itself now redirects to hot topics listing which is afaik based on whether Hot Topics checked off for the article.
  9. John99 3665 posts
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    Thanks Alice, for the enlightening comments.

    Thanks Alice, for the enlightening comments.
  10. AliceWyman 4767 posts
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    AliceWyman said

    <snip> Anyway, both Firefox crashes when you open it and MozillaZine's article mention other installed software or malware can cause Firefox to crash at startup. If we want to expand this article further, I think that we should add a paragraph on that and also link to Troubleshoot Firefox issues caused by malware. For Windows, we could suggest starting in Windows Safe Mode, as mentioned in MozillaZine's article, If Firefox also crashes when you try to start in Firefox Safe Mode but Firefox will start when you reboot the computer in Windows Safe Mode, it's likely that other software installed on your computer that starts automatically in Windows normal mode (or malware) is causing the crash.

    I see that Joni has a pending revision to add a new section on scanning for malware and removing software known to cause startup crashes.

    ''AliceWyman [[#post-11005|said]]'' <blockquote> <snip> Anyway, both [[Firefox crashes when you open it]] and [http://kb.mozillazine.org/Firefox_crashes#Crash_when_starting_Firefox MozillaZine's article] mention other installed software or malware can cause Firefox to crash at startup. If we want to expand this article further, I think that we should add a paragraph on that and also link to [[Troubleshoot Firefox issues caused by malware]]. For Windows, we could suggest starting in Windows Safe Mode, as mentioned in [http://kb.mozillazine.org/Firefox_crashes#Crash_when_starting_Firefox MozillaZine's article], ''If Firefox also crashes when you try to start in Firefox Safe Mode but Firefox will start when you reboot the computer in [http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Start-your-computer-in-safe-mode Windows Safe Mode], it's likely that other software installed on your computer that starts automatically in Windows normal mode (or malware) is causing the crash.'' </blockquote> I see that Joni has a [/en-US/kb/firefox-keeps-crashing-startup/revision/96964 pending revision] to add a new section on scanning for malware and removing software known to cause startup crashes.
  11. John99 3665 posts
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    Other Crash Related Articles Probably worth noting other crash articles need a bit of attention, See my Advice is outdated, i.e. click on submitted Crash IDs & may benefit from templates /kb/firefox-crashes-asking-support/di.../6102

    Malware Section Why not either make and use malware templates or at least link to

    Other Crash Related Articles Probably worth noting other crash articles need a bit of attention, See my ''Advice is outdated, i.e. click on submitted Crash IDs & may benefit from templates'' [/kb/firefox-crashes-asking-support/discuss/6102] Malware Section Why not either make and use malware templates or at least link to * [[Troubleshoot Firefox issues caused by malware]]
  12. AliceWyman 4767 posts
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    John99 said

    Malware Section Why not either make and use malware templates or at least link to

    Done.

    I also reordered the sections and self-approved this low-view article.

    ''John99 [[#post-11943|said]]'' <blockquote> Malware Section Why not either make and use malware templates or at least link to * [[Troubleshoot Firefox issues caused by malware]] </blockquote> Done. I also reordered the sections and self-approved this low-view article.
  13. AliceWyman 4767 posts
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    P.S. For the record, I moved the section on uninstalling other software/malware after the Firefox clean install section, based on 1) Write articles for the Knowledge Base (finding and removing troublesome software/malware is a more complex solution IMHO). 2) The Firefox crashes - Troubleshoot, prevent and get help fixing crashes article links to this article like this:


    If Firefox crashes at startup:

    1. Check to see if the crash happens in safe mode (see below).
    2. Try a clean reinstall (see Firefox keeps crashing at startup).

    Also note that a new search summary may be needed, if more solutions are added. The current search summary for this article is:

    If Firefox keeps crashing when you try to start it and other solutions don't work, a clean reinstall can often fix the problem.

    P.S. For the record, I moved the section on uninstalling other software/malware after the Firefox clean install section, based on 1) [[How to write Knowledge Base articles#w_organize-the-article-effectively]] (finding and removing troublesome software/malware is a more complex solution IMHO). 2) The [[Firefox crashes]] article links to this article like this: ----- If Firefox crashes at startup: #[[Firefox crashes#w_check-to-see-if-the-crash-happens-in-safe-mode|Check to see if the crash happens in safe mode]] (see below). #Try a clean reinstall (see [[Firefox keeps crashing at startup]]). ----- Also note that a new search summary may be needed, if more solutions are added. The current search summary for this article is: ''If Firefox keeps crashing when you try to start it and other solutions don't work, a clean reinstall can often fix the problem.''
    Modified by AliceWyman on
  14. Tonnes 54 posts
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    Would it be wise to include links to e.g. the Firefox 43.0.3 startup crash with G DATA security software article here, and keep doing so? Or would they be too "volatile" for this generic article?

    Also, the pending revision for the download link (and this discussion updated recently) made me wonder if there are other articles that may need their download link changed for consistency? I found one with a similar current link, though that one may not be longer maintained or linked to (see its helpfulness votes).

    Would it be wise to include links to e.g. the [[Firefox 43.0.3 startup crash with G DATA security software]] article here, and keep doing so? Or would they be too "volatile" for this generic article? Also, the [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-keeps-crashing-startup/compare?locale=en-US&to=112307&from=99427 pending revision] for the download link (and [https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/update-firefox-latest-version/discuss/4694 this discussion updated recently]) made me wonder if there are other articles that may need their download link changed for consistency? I found [[Firefox failed to update - how to update manually|one]] with a similar current link, though that one may not be longer maintained or linked to (see its helpfulness votes).