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Anybody monitors the 'Ask a Question Discussion' forum posts?

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There are a lot of changes in Firefox functionality that made some loyal users angry enough to drop FireFox: https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/ask/discuss?page=1

Those are not confused users but rather people that consider some of the last changes not only controversial but rather completely unacceptable since they affect their productivity.

Please note, that those are not just questions asking for help but rather a frustrated state of mind telling that you have broken real useful functionality that you shouldn't have touched, as in the principle "if it isn't broken, don't change it".

Those affected features are: 1) Save All Tabs / Save Group Tabs - now removed from FF4 2) Move Tabs / Bookmarks Around - now removed from FF3.6.16 3) Reload button etc

There are a lot of changes in Firefox functionality that made some loyal users angry enough to drop FireFox: https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/ask/discuss?page=1 Those are not confused users but rather people that consider some of the last changes not only controversial but rather completely unacceptable since they affect their productivity. Please note, that those are not just questions asking for help but rather a frustrated state of mind telling that you have broken real useful functionality that you shouldn't have touched, as in the principle "if it isn't broken, don't change it". Those affected features are: 1) Save All Tabs / Save Group Tabs - now removed from FF4 2) Move Tabs / Bookmarks Around - now removed from FF3.6.16 3) Reload button etc

Geändert am von mmarchid

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Weitere Informationen

Just read the list of removed features from the previous versions of FF3.6 and FF4.

John99 971 Lösungen 13138 Antworten
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The first post on that page is a sticky saying NOT to post about support on that page.

  • I did try to re-iterate that point a few times. (e. g.)

It is possible some of the questions asked in that discussion section are not appropriate to this forum at all, and maybe would be better for instance in the Firefox 4 feedback Hendrix

If questions relate to functionality and use of firefox ask them here by all means. Just briefly trying to make some comment that could help. In many cases firefox 4 can be made to look and work like firefox 3.6 if necessary.

2) Move Tabs / Bookmarks Around - now removed from FF3.6.16

Not entirely certain what you mean, as I did not read the other posts, but is this the bookmarks library, the menus were renamed, and it may have caused some confusion my firefox 3.6.16 has an organise bookmarks option as it was in 3.6.15, in firefox 4 it is renamed as show all bookmarks. There are several posts about the subject. (I use en-gb firefox, mine is written organise not organize)

3) Reload button etc The reload button in firefox 4 is now at the end of the location bar (where you type URL/web addresses) and will appear only whilst a page is loading.

You may however customise the toolbars and put separate buttons, or combined stop/reload buttons on

1) Save All Tabs / Save Group Tabs - now removed I have noticed comments about that, i do not recall the answers, will try my firefox 4 and then reply again

The first post on that page is a sticky saying NOT to post about support on that page. * [https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/ask/discuss/29 Please don't post Firefox support questions here] * I did try to re-iterate that point a few times. [https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/ask/discuss/440#post-606 (e. g.)] It is possible some of the questions asked in that discussion section are not appropriate to this forum at all, and maybe would be better for instance in the Firefox 4 feedback [http://hendrix.mozilla.org/ Hendrix] If questions relate to functionality and use of firefox ask them here by all means. Just briefly trying to make some comment that could help. In many cases firefox 4 can be made to look and work like firefox 3.6 if necessary. '''''2) Move Tabs / Bookmarks Around - now removed from FF3.6.16''''' Not entirely certain what you mean, as I did not read the other posts, but is this the bookmarks library, the menus were renamed, and it may have caused some [https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/forums/knowledge-base-articles/705278 confusion] my firefox 3.6.16 has an organise bookmarks option as it was in 3.6.15, in firefox 4 it is renamed as '''show all bookmarks'''. There are several posts about the subject. (I use en-gb firefox, mine is written organise not organize) '''''3) Reload button etc ''''' The reload button in firefox 4 is now at the end of the location bar (where you type URL/web addresses) and will appear only whilst a page is loading. You may however customise the toolbars and put separate buttons, or combined stop/reload buttons on '''''1) Save All Tabs / Save Group Tabs - now removed ''''' I have noticed comments about that, i do not recall the answers, will try my firefox 4 and then reply again
John99 971 Lösungen 13138 Antworten
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Hilfreiche Antwort

Hi again mmarchid,

SAVE ALL TABs

I am a Windows user, if I right click a tab I get a dropdown menu with an option to save all tabs, also shortcut Ctrl + Shift + D will save all tabs opening a dialogue to name the folder. This works in both Firefox 3.6 & 4

Again it would seem that it is merely a minor change. I forgot to check whilst firefox 4 was open, but Alt brings up the menu toolbar temporarily even with the firefox button in place that probably still also has the save all tabs option.


Correction
I now have both versions on the same screen. Firefox 4 old style bookmarks menu no longer contains a close all tabs option, but I confirm the ctrl shift d or right click do work to bookmark all tabs

Hi again mmarchid, SAVE ALL TABs I am a Windows user, if I right click a tab I get a dropdown menu with an option to save all tabs, also shortcut '''Ctrl + Shift + D''' will save all tabs opening a dialogue to name the folder. This works in both Firefox 3.6 & 4 Again it would seem that it is merely a minor change. I forgot to check whilst firefox 4 was open, but '''Alt''' brings up the menu toolbar temporarily even with the firefox button in place <s>that probably still also has the save all tabs option. </s> ---- Correction <br /> I now have both versions on the same screen. Firefox 4 old style bookmarks menu no longer contains a close all tabs option, but I confirm the ctrl shift d or right click do work to bookmark all tabs

Geändert am von John99

Fragesteller

You said not to ask support questions in that forum, but we are not 'asking' support from Mozilla, we are 'telling you' what you should have known before and what 'you should do' now that the damage is done. Plus, if you go to that link about support, all the options start with 'I have a problem with ...' which clearly doesn't fall at least in my category grief because I do not have any problem at all.

The "Move Around Tabs / Bookmarks" are actually "Drag-and-Drop Tabs / Bookmarks" which was very helpful before the unexpected change with FF 3.6.16. This is a really big change that destroys something useful that was available in the last 2 years.

Regarding the "Bookmark / Save All Tabs" functionality I completely disagree with all these gymnastics flip-flops of emulating some real useful functionality. How about just restore that simple, clear and useful functionality?

All your posts and answers that nothing is lost do not address the scenarios mentioned here https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/ask/discuss/616#post-940

therefore I am pleading to you to cave in to your loyal users' requests for the return of that functionality. I am not really asking for support here, this is a last minute call for a reality touch on Mozilla behalf or bye-bye FF after 6 years.

I have never thought I would be so angry about any product, yet alone about FF, that aberrant are these decisions you made in the past 2 months. You could have done a million other changes and I wouldn't have cared, that is what loyalty by inertia is, there were VERY FEW STUPID decisions you could have done to completely annoy your users and you have just done that very well.

Also, the fact that the Mozilla / FF staff doesn't realize the absurdity of these changes is quite disconcerting.

I could understand these changes only if they were a result of some patent litigation.

You said not to ask support questions in that forum, but we are not 'asking' support from Mozilla, we are 'telling you' what you should have known before and what 'you should do' now that the damage is done. Plus, if you go to that link about support, all the options start with 'I have a problem with ...' which clearly doesn't fall at least in my category grief because I do not have any problem at all. The "Move Around Tabs / Bookmarks" are actually "Drag-and-Drop Tabs / Bookmarks" which was very helpful before the unexpected change with FF 3.6.16. This is a really big change that destroys something useful that was available in the last 2 years. Regarding the "Bookmark / Save All Tabs" functionality I completely disagree with all these gymnastics flip-flops of emulating some real useful functionality. How about just restore that simple, clear and useful functionality? All your posts and answers that nothing is lost do not address the scenarios mentioned here https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/ask/discuss/616#post-940 therefore I am pleading to you to cave in to your loyal users' requests for the return of that functionality. I am not really asking for support here, this is a last minute call for a reality touch on Mozilla behalf or bye-bye FF after 6 years. I have never thought I would be so angry about any product, yet alone about FF, that aberrant are these decisions you made in the past 2 months. You could have done a million other changes and I wouldn't have cared, that is what loyalty by inertia is, there were VERY FEW STUPID decisions you could have done to completely annoy your users and you have just done that very well. Also, the fact that the Mozilla / FF staff doesn't realize the absurdity of these changes is quite disconcerting. I could understand these changes only if they were a result of some patent litigation.

Geändert am von mmarchid

John99 971 Lösungen 13138 Antworten
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Hilfreiche Antwort

Hi again mmarchid,
sorry that you are still unhappy with firefox and the changes with firefox 4.

Firstly:
presumably you realise it will be easy to stick with firefox3.6 or revert to it, and that support will continue for firefox 3.6 for quite some time.


Secondly may I explain my status:
Lets make this absolutely clear I am not part of the Mozilla / FF staff

  • I have exactly the same powers as you
  • (see}I am just an ordinary user, but I do answer some questions, almost no-one is going to see and answer your questions in this section
  • the person starting that thread, imploring you not to ask support questions, in that location, is however, I understand the Mozzila support forum Content Manger Verdi

This is a Firefox Support Forum.

It is for people to ask support questions. I and the vast majority of those answering are merely other users of firefox.

The part you were posting in previously was for those of us trying to edit the Knowledge Base, that is the help articles for benefit of Firefox users of the Firefox Support Forum.

I can try to answer support questions, or point you to a source of information. So I am able to

  • explain firefox probably works better than you realise
  • offer suggestions if you wish to
    • continue using Firefox 4
    • or revert to using firefox 3.6

I am not able to

  • explain reasons behind development decisions
  • influence those development decisions
    • (at least not from this forum) I did however mention Hendrix, the feedback site

Finally, would you like to ask anything I may be able to answer :
You are saying for instance
" The "Move Around Tabs / Bookmarks" are actually "Drag-and-Drop Tabs / Bookmarks" which was very helpful before the unexpected change with FF 3.6.16. This is a really big change that destroys something useful that was available in the last 2 years. "

IN BOTH FIREFOX 3.6 AND 4.o

You still can drag and drop bookmarks that is perfectly easily done within the bookmarks library, together with sorting by various columns, and creating nested and smart folders.

You still can drag and drop tabs they may be dragged to a new position, or even into a different window

Hi again mmarchid, <br /> sorry that you are still unhappy with firefox and the changes with firefox 4. Firstly: <br />presumably you realise it will be easy to stick with firefox3.6 or revert to it, and that support will continue for firefox 3.6 for quite some time. Secondly may I explain my status: <br />Lets make this absolutely clear '''I am not ''' part of ''the Mozilla / FF staff '' * I have exactly the same powers as you *[https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/ask/discuss/29#post-928 (see}]''I am just an ordinary user, but I do answer some questions, almost no-one is going to see and answer your questions in this section'' * the person starting that thread, imploring you not to ask support questions, in that location, is however, I understand the Mozzila support forum Content Manger [https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/user/160087 Verdi] '''This is a Firefox Support Forum.''' It is for people to ask support questions. I and the vast majority of those answering are merely other users of firefox. The part you were posting in previously was for those of us trying to edit the Knowledge Base, that is the help articles for benefit of Firefox users of the Firefox Support Forum. I can try to answer support questions, or point you to a source of information. So I am able to *explain firefox probably works better than you realise *offer suggestions if you wish to ** continue using Firefox 4 ** or revert to using firefox 3.6 I am not able to * explain reasons behind development decisions * influence those development decisions ** (at least not from this forum) I did however mention Hendrix, the feedback site Finally, would you like to ask anything I may be able to answer :<br /> You are saying for instance <br /> '' " The "Move Around Tabs / Bookmarks" are actually "Drag-and-Drop Tabs / Bookmarks" which was very helpful before the unexpected change with FF 3.6.16. This is a really big change that destroys something useful that was available in the last 2 years. " '' '''IN BOTH FIREFOX 3.6 AND 4.o''' '''You still can drag and drop bookmarks''' that is perfectly easily done within the bookmarks library, together with sorting by various columns, and creating nested and smart folders. * see [[sorting bookmarks]] '''You still can drag and drop tabs''' they may be dragged to a new position, or even into a different window * see [[tabbed browsing]]

Fragesteller

I have received a satisfactory answer about the FF4 "Bookmark All Tabs" issue here: https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/799856#answer-155765

Not the most intuitive solutions but good enough for me once I read it.

Also, my problems with "drag-and-drop tabs" in FF 3.6.16 was fixed after the a system (Ubuntu 10.10) restart, not sure why it didn't work initially.

Therefore I am happy to continue working with both FF 3.6.16 and FF 4.

I have received a satisfactory answer about the FF4 "Bookmark All Tabs" issue here: https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/questions/799856#answer-155765 Not the most intuitive solutions but good enough for me once I read it. Also, my problems with "drag-and-drop tabs" in FF 3.6.16 was fixed after the a system (Ubuntu 10.10) restart, not sure why it didn't work initially. Therefore I am happy to continue working with both FF 3.6.16 and FF 4.

Geändert am von mmarchid

froboz 0 Lösungen 2 Antworten
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Of course, anyone would naturally assume that you could customize the new version. In their innocence, some did not even dream that you copied Chrome, and simply removed the user interface and functions of version 3 without any way to get them back. Shall those innocents be punished and disciplined just because they ask the natural question of, for instance 'how do I get to my bookmarks in one click' ( you can't) or 'how do I get the addons back to the status bar' ( you can't, firefox no longer has a status bar, and all status bar functionality ends up in limbo!)

Of course, anyone would naturally assume that you could customize the new version. In their innocence, some did not even dream that you copied Chrome, and simply removed the user interface and functions of version 3 without any way to get them back. Shall those innocents be punished and disciplined just because they ask the natural question of, for instance 'how do I get to my bookmarks in one click' ( you can't) or 'how do I get the addons back to the status bar' ( you can't, firefox no longer has a status bar, and all status bar functionality ends up in limbo!)
Helper7677 165 Lösungen 1653 Antworten
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froboz

All you need to do is ask.

"...removed the user interface and functions of version 3 without any way to get them back..."
"'...how do I get to my bookmarks in one click' ( you can't)..."

Restore the Menu Bar and use it instead of the Firefox button (versions 4 and 5):

  • Note: Menu Bar checked = Menu Bar on, Firefox button off; un-checked = Menu Bar off, Firefox button on
  • using Menu Bar: click View > Toolbars > Menu Bar
  • using Firefox button: click Firefox button > Options > Menu Bar
  • keyboard shortcut: HOLD down the ALT key while pressing the keyboard letters VTM (repeating the keyboard shortcut will toggle Menu Bar on or off)

"'...how do I get the addons back to the status bar' ( you can't, firefox no longer has a status bar, and all status bar functionality ends up in limbo!)"

The add-on Status-4-Evar will restore some of the functionality of the old Status Bar.

After install,

  1. Be sure the Add-on Bar is displayed; View > Toolbars, click to check "Add-on Bar"
  2. In View > Toolbars > Customize drag any or all of the 3 items to the position you want them on the Add-on Bar:
    • Status text (this is the URL information you want)
    • Download status (will display No Downloads or number of downloads in progress)
    • Progress meter (meter of page loading)
  3. Set the options for Status-4-Evar in Tools > Add-ons > Extensions
froboz All you need to do is ask. '''''"...removed the user interface and functions of version 3 without any way to get them back..."'''''<br /> '''''"'...how do I get to my bookmarks in one click' ( you can't)..."''''' Restore the Menu Bar and use it instead of the Firefox button (versions 4 and 5): *Note: Menu Bar checked = Menu Bar on, Firefox button off; un-checked = Menu Bar off, Firefox button on *using Menu Bar: click View > Toolbars > Menu Bar *using Firefox button: click Firefox button > Options > Menu Bar *keyboard shortcut: HOLD down the ALT key while pressing the keyboard letters VTM (repeating the keyboard shortcut will toggle Menu Bar on or off) '''''"'...how do I get the addons back to the status bar' ( you can't, firefox no longer has a status bar, and all status bar functionality ends up in limbo!)"''''' The add-on '''''Status-4-Evar''''' will restore some of the functionality of the old Status Bar. <br /> * https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/status-4-evar/ After install, #Be sure the Add-on Bar is displayed; View > Toolbars, click to check "Add-on Bar" #In View > Toolbars > Customize drag any or all of the 3 items to the position you want them on the Add-on Bar: #*Status text (this is the URL information you want) #*Download status (will display No Downloads or number of downloads in progress) #*Progress meter (meter of page loading) #Set the options for Status-4-Evar in Tools > Add-ons > Extensions

Geändert am von Helper7677

Fragesteller

Helper7677 and Mozilla developers,

you should acknowledge that it is not reasonable to expect from the average user to do the effort of configuring Firefox with these tricks just to retain their previous favorite features. There are millions of such unsuspecting users out there, you are making GUI changes that forcefully affect them as long as they are not resolute enough to find a non-trivial solution.

It is not best to provide a single GUI button named "Switch to Classic Skin/Functionality" or "Switch to Mozilla <input_version_here> Skin/Functionality" whenever you are implementing drastic changes in the interface? I am thinking something similar to the switch to Classic View option that Microsoft provided after they changed the interface to Control Panel. You will be perceived as more thoughtful towards your (loyal/captive) customer base.

Helper7677 and Mozilla developers, you should acknowledge that it is not reasonable to expect from the average user to do the effort of configuring Firefox with these tricks just to retain their previous favorite features. There are millions of such unsuspecting users out there, you are making GUI changes that forcefully affect them as long as they are not resolute enough to find a non-trivial solution. It is not best to provide a single GUI button named "Switch to Classic Skin/Functionality" or "Switch to Mozilla <input_version_here> Skin/Functionality" whenever you are implementing drastic changes in the interface? I am thinking something similar to the switch to Classic View option that Microsoft provided after they changed the interface to Control Panel. You will be perceived as more thoughtful towards your (loyal/captive) customer base.

Geändert am von mmarchid

Helper7677 165 Lösungen 1653 Antworten
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Just wait until you see what some other browser developers are planning for changes in their GUI for future versions. Things change. You either accept the changes, adapt to them, reconfigure, or move on.

We are all uncompensated volunteers here; users helping other users.

Just wait until you see what some other browser developers are planning for changes in their GUI for future versions. Things change. You either accept the changes, adapt to them, reconfigure, or move on. '''''We are all uncompensated volunteers here; users helping other users.'''''